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Congressional Republicans Want Stimulus Bill to Fail

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Yah, I know what you mean.... I see it too BH...

Here's the thing... the government and MSM is goign through great lengths to keep us in the dark about how bad our economy really is... The Chair of the IMF tells us that we are in a depression... Warren Buffett, who's been optimistic up to this point, has pretty much said we're screwed...

But all we hear from the government is how its not that bad... or how we've hit bottom.. (heard that about 6 months ago actually... boy were they wrong
)

Here's the secret that I don't think people are realizing: People are starting to "wake up" as to exactly how bad our economy is... and for all intents and purposes, they're keeping us in the dark even more, by keeping everyone fighting amongst themselves...

The bailout won't work... (It might have over a year ago... but now its too late). We're going to go into a depression deeper than the Great depression according to most economists.

So... instead of preparing us for it, they're trying to keep us distracted. I don't know if the politicians are doing this intentionally... but the MSM sure is... just watch CNN... all we hear about is democrat-republican bickering, partisanship, etc...

No where is anyone telling people to buy locally to keep money in their local areas... or to liquidate their debts as soon as possible...

The average joe is going to get a shock when they wake up one morning, and discover we're in dire economic straights, and perhaps in the midsts of "The Greater Depression".




posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:17 PM
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I've been trying to get the word out for months now.
Partisanship is a DIVERSION, as the post above me stated, and as I stated in my post on page 1 of this thread. It is too late to do anything right now to stop what has ALREADY occurred.
What people CAN do is stock up on food and medical supplies. Skip the Starbucks, skip the restaurants, skip the movies. Take every spare penny you have and purchase and stock up on non-perishable food and essential medical and living supplies. If you live in the north, buy blankets, arrange for alternate heat supplies that don't rely on public distribution.
There will be food shortages. That is an absolute certainty.
Or you can all just sit back, and believe the politicians, who have already made plans for their getaways. One day, you'll wake up, and say, "Why didn't anyone warn us this was coming?"
At that point it will be too late. Oh, you'll riot in the streets? And who will you riot against? Do you think that they'll still be here, waiting for your ire? In one day, this country will go from the 21st Century back to the Dark Ages.
But don't worry....it's only a nightmare. OR IS IT?



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by nj2day
But all we hear from the government is how its not that bad... or how we've hit bottom.. (heard that about 6 months ago actually... boy were they wrong
)


I think it depends on who you're listening to in the government. I don't listen to anyone in Congress. As far as I'm concerned, they should ALL be fired. They haven't done their jobs for years now. I don't trust them as far as I could throw them in a big pit and torch it. Sorry, I got carried away.


And you all know I'm an Obama fan, but he has been saying since before he got elected that it's going to be hard. He has been warning us all along that we haven't seen how bad it's going to get. What is he supposed to do? Actually put the diaper on and pin it for us?



That we are in the midst of crisis is now well understood. Our nation is at war, against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred. Our economy is badly weakened, a consequence of greed and irresponsibility on the part of some, but also our collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age. Homes have been lost; jobs shed; businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly; our schools fail too many; and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.


How much more dire could he be?



These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics. Less measurable but no less profound is a sapping of confidence across our land — a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, and that the next generation must lower its sights.

Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America — they will be met.


Obama's Inaugural Speech

He has said stuff like this over and over since September of last year. How much more clear could he be? We're supposed to be grown ups.



The bailout won't work... (It might have over a year ago... but now its too late). We're going to go into a depression deeper than the Great depression according to most economists.


As I've said before, it depends on what you mean by "work". I agree it won't make everything sunny and shiny in a couple months. The very best it can do is take the edge off the coming depression. And that's all I think it can do and all it will do.


just watch CNN... all we hear about is democrat-republican bickering, partisanship, etc...


I rarely watch cnn, but I think they concentrate on the bickering because it's dramatic and fills the public's need for drama. I agree, if that's where people are getting their news, they're not getting the real situation.

But who's responsible for that? If people can't look around them and hear and see what's going on, it's because they don't want to. I mean, you and I know what's going to happen. Most of us here on ATS know and have known, some for a few years now. People who are depending on the government to take care of them are going to be sadly disappointed. But whose job is it to MAKE them listen? Who's responsible for you knowing? Who's responsible for me knowing? WE ARE. Everyone is responsible for looking around and taking note of their circumstances. People who are depending on the government to take care of them are going to end up like the people of New Orleans. If ANYTHING should have awakened them, that should have. But they are comfortable in their slumber. And those who are depending on the government to let them know are the the same as anyone who depends on the government for anything.



No where is anyone telling people to buy locally to keep money in their local areas... or to liquidate their debts as soon as possible...


The news isn't there to give financial advice. They are there to report what's going on. If people want financial advice, they should talk to a trusted broker (if there is such a thing). I didn't get financial advice from the news. We're a year ahead in our house payment. Not because we heard it was a good idea, but because WE took responsibility. We have stockpiled. Not because cnn or the government said to do it, but because we have minds and can think logically about what we see going on around us. It's not the government's or cnn's job to tell us to do things that are just common sense.



The average joe is going to get a shock when they wake up one morning, and discover we're in dire economic straights, and perhaps in the midsts of "The Greater Depression".


I totally agree. And they're going to say, "BH was right"! (only they won't call me BH) "We should have stocked up on food and prepared to go without assistance for a year or more."

If your message is not to depend on the government and news on one hand, but to say that they have the responsibility to tell us to liquidate our debt and explain like we're children just how bad this is going to get, then it's kind of a mixed message. Isn't it? Am I misunderstanding something?

This is off topic, but a good discussion. Thanks.


[edit on 17-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


I didn't read your post before I posted my last one. But can you see how much we actually agree?



Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
You keep hearing...?
Cite your sources, quotes, persons, dates, times.


My sources aren't on the Internet. I have seen and heard them on TV over the past few days throughout the day.
All I know is that they were Congressional Republicans because they were Republican's who had voted against the bill.

This is the segment I saw that inspired this thread:
www.msnbc.msn.com...

(The 5-day promise was for non-emergency bills. The stimulus was designated as an Emergency Bill.)

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 





(The 5-day promise was for non-emergency bills. The stimulus was designated as an Emergency Bill.)


Yes, it was billed as an emergency bill. However, what I really have a hard time understanding is why, if it were such an emergency bill, did Obama take a 3 day vacation, and wait until Tuesday to sign it? In other words, Congress could have waited until Tuesday to vote, and used the time between Thursday and Tuesday to allow public comment on it. I cannot buy the rush to vote, because it was supposedly such an emergency, and then they wait until Tuesday to sign it. When they pushed through their first act, they handwalked the bill to the President within minutes to sign.
Furthermore, I think we agree that the first bill did not work, and these bills are exactly the wrong thing to be passing, since it was excessive debt that helped create this mess, and now we have a solution of MORE excessive debt. Furthermore, many of these programs in the bill have nothing to do with stimulating the economy. One billion dollars for Acorn might stimulate the Democratic voter roles, but isn't doing anything to create real jobs. Other measures in the bill involve projects that won't be able to start for 2 years, hardly a help right now.
As to the original post, I don't think the Republicans want the bill to fail. They just believe, as do I, that it will fail to stem this financial crisis.
Furthermore, just an hour ago, another huge investment scandal was just revealed by the FBI. Much of this crisis also has to do with fraud.
Printing more money will eventually cause hyperinflation. That is a historical fact that few can dispute.
Much of the crisis is fueled by lack of consumer confidence, and this bill is looked upon by the middle class as a failure out of the block. If they really wanted to stimulate the economy, they should have taken the entire 800 plus billion dollars, and distributed it back to lower and middle class Americans. That money would have REALLY made a difference in stimulating the economy, and would have had a multiplier effect throughout the entire product and services chain.
I know you really believe in Obama, but it seems to me if he is sincere in wanting to fix the economy, he is listening to the wrong people. Perhaps he should be listening to the American consumer, rather than political hacks who have their own agenda. Regardless of whether they are Democrats or Republicans, the vast majority of the politicians have been completely bought by the lobbyists.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
However, what I really have a hard time understanding is why, if it were such an emergency bill, did Obama take a 3 day vacation, and wait until Tuesday to sign it?


I'm not defending the action, I'm just stating the fact.
I can't defend it.

I have wondered if he's taking the real bill to Denver... I think that would be a breach of security or something. I wonder if he already signed the real thing and what he's signing in Denver is just a prop or copy. I don't know this, but I thought about it earlier and it's a possibility.



Furthermore, I think we agree that the first bill did not work, and these bills are exactly the wrong thing to be passing,


The first bill did not work. On that we agree. It handed cash over to greedy, corrupt people... This bill? I don't know if it's going to "work" or not. I think it will probably take the edge off the effects of the depression.


this bill is looked upon by the middle class as a failure out of the block.


Everything I've seen indicates the public is about 50% or higher in favor of this bill. Of course it means nothing because the public aren't economists. And there are economists that go both ways. I think the only way to know if this bill is going to work is to wait. I don't think anyone really knows. Not Obama, not the economists...



If they really wanted to stimulate the economy, they should have taken the entire 800 plus billion dollars, and distributed it back to lower and middle class Americans.


And they would have turned it over to pay their bills and their debt. And if they had anything left after eating, it would go in the bank. Stimulation over with. No jobs, no railways, no projects. I think that would only delay the inevitable.

I appreciate your respectful tone. Thank you.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 





Everything I've seen indicates the public is about 50% or higher in favor of this bill. Of course it means nothing because the public aren't economists. And there are economists that go both ways. I think the only way to know if this bill is going to work is to wait. I don't think anyone really knows. Not Obama, not the economists...

True, but my thought is that public confidence or lack of confidence does affect the economy. Further, even if they DO use it to pay off debt, hopefully you would agree that would be a good thing(as Martha Stewart would say :lol
. At least that might prevent us from getting into this problem again, assuming we get out of it.Hopefully, most people realize you can't live your life on credit beyond their means.
You are right, however, that we do agree on much. Although I didn't vote for President Obama, I hope he succeeds, because if he fails, we all fail. So far, I would give him a B+ for his efforts. Again, I don't think the Republicans will be a problem for him, since there aren't many of them left in Congress.


However, Pelosi and Reid are a different story. Those two really worry me, because they both seem to think that they are in charge of the country, and neither one seems to be concerned about anything other than getting their way. I think President Obama would have had a much better chance of consensus if the Democrats had picked more moderate leaders for the House and Senate.



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