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If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


hmm.. someone who takes it all as literal is telling someone in whom the Scriptures are revealed to (since after all, it is my heritage in which they originated from) that they are blind.

The only thing that is blind is faith in a man; and your ignorance is shown by your putting others down for not believing in it as literal events. They are not literal events. Seriously, do you believe the sun stood still in the sky for longer than normal? That would screw up all of nature. Do you honestly believe the parting of the Red Sea? You believe a man could LITERALLY rise from the dead? And you think *I* am blind?
G.d created the Laws of Nature and if He would break them, then why would you bother trusting in Him. It goes to show you do not understand the Word that originated from *us*.. not from the pagans.



[edit on 16-2-2009 by justamomma]




posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Why do you not respond to justamamas point. Stop all this i have a higher perspective crap. If you cannot explain what it is you know... then you really know nothing, but ignorant faith.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by ImaNutter
edit....wrong post...

[edit on 16-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by OldThinker
 


Why do you not respond to justamamas point. Stop all this i have a higher perspective crap. If you cannot explain what it is you know... then you really know nothing, but ignorant faith.



OK....which point?

Oh...appreciate the mature request there????



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
ooopppss, double post...

[edit on 16-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I am sorry for offending you. I am sorry if whatever I did made you think I was childish. I didn't get this vibe from you as your last message to me was this:

"ImaNutter,

I read your post with a sense of refreshment. Yes, it is OK to agree to disagree on ATS. Thanks for being an example needed for more constructive dialog…

I heard this one time that, “none of us is as smart as all of us!”

Appreciate your helping get the thread atmosphere back on track…

OT "

I don't get how your appreciation and refreshment turned into thinking I was stupid and childish, but I will play along.... so I apologize for refreshing you and helping get your thread back on track...

Now will you please tell me what you think about the cross originating as the symbol for the pagan sun god, pretty please?

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ImaNutter]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 



Not putting you or any one else down....have you not read my earlier posts? even in this thread....


If I offended you, my mistake, need to do a better job of communicating....sound like my precious wife....OT's got a lot to learn...


Here....if JC is the IAM....and HE wanted to convey a message through the old and new tests, certainly HE could preserve that message huh? That's not illogical to my perspective...


btw, I'm a statitician by trade, data.facts.number/mathmatics...is what I do every day...for over 35 years....


ever heard of a LEAN SIX SIGMA MASTER BLACK BELT? Google it if not...



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinkerNot putting you or any one else down....have you not read my earlier posts? even in this thread....


If I offended you, my mistake, need to do a better job of communicating....sound like my precious wife....OT's got a lot to learn...


Here....if JC is the IAM....and HE wanted to convey a message through the old and new tests, certainly HE could preserve that message huh? That's not illogical to my perspective...


btw, I'm a statitician by trade, data.facts.number/mathmatics...is what I do every day...for over 35 years....


ever heard of a LEAN SIX SIGMA MASTER BLACK BELT? Google it if not...


No worries about me thinking that you are putting me down or offending me. That can hardly be accomplished by another. My point is, the Scriptures originated with the Jewish, so therefore, wouldn't the Jewish know that interpretation? I can assure you that it is not meant to be seen as literal. Are there literal events there? Sure... as it is said in Isaiah, creation is happening even now. But to take the actual occurances as factual events is missing the point. It is an allegory to teach and to show *our* people the Truth in its opposition to the deception. To test our obedience.... it was sold out to the wolves. This was stated to happen by Jesus in Matthew 5 and is confirmed in Genesis 49.. as to who it would be sold out to.
It was to see who would buy into the paganistic worship of images and who would seek out Truth and knowledge. I applaud anyone for using their ability to think rather than buying into what they are told to based on blind faith. It shows respect for G.d and is hardly a reason to condemn them or put them down.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by ImaNutter
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I am sorry for offending you. I am sorry if whatever I did made you think I was childish. I didn't get this vibe from you as your last message to me was this:

"ImaNutter,

I read your post with a sense of refreshment. Yes, it is OK to agree to disagree on ATS. Thanks for being an example needed for more constructive dialog…

I heard this one time that, “none of us is as smart as all of us!”

Appreciate your helping get the thread atmosphere back on track…

OT "

I don't get how your appreciation and refreshment turned into thinking I was stupid and childish, but I will play along.... so I apologize for refreshing you and helping get your thread back on track...

Now will you please tell me what you think about the cross originating as the symbol for the pagan sun god, pretty please?

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ImaNutter]



Yes, you are right....I remembered wrong....looked over the prior thread...sorry it's late, what was the questions again....fixed the other post, ok



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 



Please go ahead and be upset with me now...no biggie....come back in 20 years from now....after life does WHAT IT DOES....and I guarantee you...you WILL feel (more importantly THINK) differently...

OT is right....and you will see IN TIME....sounds arrogant, I know....but let's put 5 or 6 decades on our FEELINGS....ru ready for that?????

OT is...been there, done that.....got the T-SHIRT to prove it....


Hehehehehehe!!! Well if we are looking at time "with the Lord" you both may change your mind when you reach the level of time I have had with him (I have been connected for more than 50 years)!!


Yes, justamomma is new to this whole thing, but...the odds are that she may come to be similar to me, as she came out of Christianity as I did.


I appreciate the dedication you both have, and it need not be a competition. It is obvious that you have a love for your beliefs and are loyal to them. I honor that.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


Good point...let's pick it up tomorrow ok...really long day



Good night!



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Originally posted by MatrixProphet

I appreciate the dedication you both have, and it need not be a competition. It is obvious that you have a love for your beliefs and are loyal to them. I honor that.


I do not buy into beliefs though. That is the point. The *fact* is, this is allegorical and to expect others to buy into it on the surface level is misconstruing its meaning.

New to this perhaps, but quickened in it most assuredly since I have gone back to my heritage and learned their ways of teaching. No, it is not a competition, thus the purpose for telling the Truth. Jesus is not G.d and Jesus does not hold anyone together... in fact, he stated clearly that he would separate and all one has to do is look at the current state of the world to see that he was not joking.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 



OldThinker... you do realize the cross was a pagan symbol correct, the emblem of the Sun God? LONG before Christianity stole it, along with Christmas (birth of the Sun after remaining still (or dead) for three days), and Easter (vernal equinox), and a whole host of other things.... Christianity completely ripped everything from the Egyptians and repackaged it as their own new thing.



Yes and I did a thread on the cross that may interest you! It most definitely was pagan. It is very hard to believe that the Gods would have approved of such a symbol. Plus, the Romans didn't always use the T or t or x shape. Check it out.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 



whats up MP? You ole soul...


Thanks, this thread is been a-hopping the last few hours....my fingers are tired...glad you stopped by....

OT

PS: Did you see the vid? if not take a look and we'll talk to moorow ok?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by justamomma
 


Good point...let's pick it up tomorrow ok...really long day



Good night!


Sure.. and I did look up what you do on google. perhaps you could break this down for me sometime when you have more of an opportunity. I will admit to it being over my head. G'nite.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
Yes, you are right....I remembered wrong....looked over the prior thread...sorry it's late, what was the questions again....fixed the other post, ok


Will you please tell me what you think about the cross originating as the symbol for the pagan sun god, pretty please?

I believe it is pertinent because say I have a car, and someone steals that car... it does not rightfully belong to the thief, it belongs to me.

So in this instance we have the symbol of a cross... that belonged to the pagan sun god... that was then taken by Christianity to represent their new faith. Since the cross rightfully represents the Sun God, by your original logic in the OP, we are held together by the sun?

How do you justify the cross, as well as many other pagan traditions, being stolen by Christianity? This is immensely important when your entire basis for your argument here is that the cross is a Christian symbol... when in FACT, it is NOT.... it was merely stolen.



[edit on 16-2-2009 by ImaNutter]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by justamomma
 


Good point...let's pick it up tomorrow ok...really long day



Good night!


Sure.. and I did look up what you do on google. perhaps you could break this down for me sometime when you have more of an opportunity. I will admit to it being over my head. G'nite.



yes, for sure...we'll do that....

Question: Who do you say JC was?

We''ll talk after some needed sleep....



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by ImaNutter
 



OldThinker... you do realize the cross was a pagan symbol correct, the emblem of the Sun God? LONG before Christianity stole it, along with Christmas (birth of the Sun after remaining still (or dead) for three days), and Easter (vernal equinox), and a whole host of other things.... Christianity completely ripped everything from the Egyptians and repackaged it as their own new thing.



Yes and I did a thread on the cross that may interest you! It most definitely was pagan. It is very hard to believe that the Gods would have approved of such a symbol. Plus, the Romans didn't always use the T or t or x shape. Check it out.


Hey there, thanks for the link. I must have missed that... I read over your original post and it is good stuff!!! This is the kind of stuff I want to hear a rebuttal from Old Thinker about!



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by ImaNutter

Originally posted by OldThinker
Yes, you are right....I remembered wrong....looked over the prior thread...sorry it's late, what was the questions again....fixed the other post, ok


Will you please tell me what you think about the cross originating as the symbol for the pagan sun god, pretty please?

I believe it is pertinent because say I have a car, and someone steals that car... it does not rightfully belong to the thief, it belongs to me.

So in this instance we have the symbol of a cross... that belonged to the pagan sun god... that was then taken by Christianity to represent their new faith. Since the cross rightfully represents the Sun God, by your original logic in the OP, we are held together by the sun?

How do you justify the cross, as well as many other pagan traditions, being stolen by Christianity?



LAST post!!! Promise



You are correct, the cross did originate BEFORE the person of Jesus Christ was concieved on the earth...


It was a tradition of killing criminals....


Of which they thought JC was....

Boy they were suprized 3 days later....



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by ImaNutter

Originally posted by OldThinker
Yes, you are right....I remembered wrong....looked over the prior thread...sorry it's late, what was the questions again....fixed the other post, ok


Will you please tell me what you think about the cross originating as the symbol for the pagan sun god, pretty please?

I believe it is pertinent because say I have a car, and someone steals that car... it does not rightfully belong to the thief, it belongs to me.

So in this instance we have the symbol of a cross... that belonged to the pagan sun god... that was then taken by Christianity to represent their new faith. Since the cross rightfully represents the Sun God, by your original logic in the OP, we are held together by the sun?

How do you justify the cross, as well as many other pagan traditions, being stolen by Christianity?



I think you know the answer to this.
You are correct. It is a paganistic view and those who believe in it have fallen for the very thing the Tanakh spoke against. It was a test for the Jewish people and unfortunately, Benoni.. generalized... (explained in the blessings of Jacob .. Genesis 49) took what was entrusted to him and sold it out to deceive not only his own, but the world. The whole of the Tanakh can help one to decipher the truth from the lies in the NT. Only about 20% is applicable to the Jewish people.. The rest of it is lies and paganism.

All in all, the point of it is that this was applicable to only the Jewish people in the first place. The fact that it made its way out into the gentile world is not even supported by Jesus, despite the Pauline crowd that stuck in their own words and attributed them to Jesus. G.d does not need our acknowledgment in order to exist.. and this is the Truth. Jesus, on the other hand, does need our acknowledgment and thus, this would show the deception quite clearly.



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