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If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
the cross pre dates jesus/christianity if he/they ever existed.




yes, good point...I think that's why the Romans used a CROSS for Jesus...it was a method of execution they used....


btw, check out the length of time most criminals SPENT on their crosses....compare that to JC's time? Bet you find a difference....wonder why?

OT

[edit on 16-2-2009 by OldThinker]




posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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OP... first off, your premise is wrong. If we are held together because of the similar cross shape... then, in fact it is not JESUS who holds us together, but "it".. the cross shape that holds us together... thus, in essence, by your theory, it is the cross we should be worshiping and not Jesus.

Personally, I believe in G.d and His Word, but with or without my acknowledgment and/or the acknowledgment of these other kind folks, G.d still exists and in *that* lies the Truth about faith. Faith is meant to control... nothing more and should be discarded. By the way, I did not watch the video, but do they or you acknowledge that the "cross" upon which the Romans would sacrifice people was in fact, "T" shaped and not "t" shaped? Does this make a difference? Fact is.. G.d is worshiped in that we respect one another and His plan was for our creation here on earth to be about us... not so much Him.. in light of that, sure.. there is a GREAT REASON to be in awe and to wonder. But the golden rule is truly where G.d's heart is.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:14 PM
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If it wasn't for anything you wouldn't exist!

2nd line



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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the story of jesus holds just as much weigth to me as a readers digest version of any book.

jews hold him as a naughty boy for not reading the torah and for not following moses word,
muslims laughe at him for not taking the punishment on the cross as a man
and christians still argue if his mom should have had the right for an abortion and confuse his date of birth with a pagan holiday.

but reading the holy text between the lines is not the same as reading the lines of the text

the text is either so metaphyisical it contains quantum physics and the means to end poverty and hunger and how to grow back limbs or its just a compilation of readers digest.....



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:24 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

OP... first off, your premise is wrong. .....

Personally, I believe in G.d and His Word, .....



Your points are contradictions...you are dealing with no fool here....


Better double check your thinking their young lady...


OT


Please go ahead and be upset with me now...no biggie....come back in 20 years from now....after life does WHAT IT DOES....and I guarantee you...you WILL feel (more importantly THINK) differently...


but I'm glad you have joined my thread....but this is no game, nor am I trying to ONE-UP you....


OT is right....and you will see IN TIME....sounds arrogant, I know....but let's put 5 or 6 decades on our FEELINGS....ru ready for that?????


OT is...been there, done that.....got the T-SHIRT to prove it....


Rarely do I tell it straight....come off as a know-it-all.....but 'YOU' KNOW BETTER!

OT praying for you...really...that's what I do!



edit:spelling...


[edit on 16-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
the story of jesus holds just as much weigth to me as a readers digest version of any book.

jews hold him as a naughty boy for not reading the torah and for not following moses word,
muslims laughe at him for not taking the punishment on the cross as a man
and christians still argue if his mom should have had the right for an abortion and confuse his date of birth with a pagan holiday.

but reading the holy text between the lines is not the same as reading the lines of the text

the text is either so metaphyisical it contains quantum physics and the means to end poverty and hunger and how to grow back limbs or its just a compilation of readers digest.....




Wow... you have shown your ignorance in the religions of the world; still I found your post amusing! Thanks for the laugh, especially the Christian part. You do make a point though.. a man is nothing to build one's life around. Take inspiration if you must, but follow your path. Your path should be your religion and never should that religion be forced on another for each has their own path!

By the way:
Jewish people are generally established in Judaism, which was founded by "Jesus" and even in the NT, it is clear by his words that he did follow the Torah and preached the whole of the Tanakh and supported it thoroughly... but only for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.. which were his people. Thanks to Hellenistic Paul, the whole of it got warped into paganism and misconstrued.

Muslims see him as merely a prophet (which the Jewish see him as both a blessing and a curse that can be defined in the Torah, specifically Duet. 27-29).

And you have pretty much hit it spot on for the Christians.


[edit on 16-2-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Thank you for the offer of prayer.. quite kind. As for the rest of it.. huh? I am just stating what is logical concerning the OP. I assure you, I am not a Christian in that I would say that I know it all.. but being Jewish, I would feel that I have some insight into the Scriptures that originated from my people... no? The NT is clearly defined as is Jesus' role.. in the Tanakh. This, what you are saying, is not it.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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lol its hilarious how pissed people can get. anyway time for my side. if you actually have been to a christian church you would realize jesus was created after man. there was a time before jesus but we still existed so unless something changed were in good shape.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by Alpha_Wolfthere was a time before jesus but we still existed so unless something changed were in good shape.


Good post, friend. You are correct. This is my point. Jesus was both a curse and blessing for the Jewish people because they were choosing to worship images (namely theirselves.. their's was a path of responsibility and not "rights") over G.d (and all G.d requires for the general of mankind was to respect one another.. the golden rule concept). Of course, paganism was just too strong a pull for some.. and therefore we end up with silly (albeit entertaining) ideas, such as the ones presented here.


[edit on 16-2-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:49 PM
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edit


[edit on 16-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by Alpha_Wolf
lol its hilarious how pissed people can get. anyway time for my side. if you actually have been to a christian church you would realize jesus was created after man. there was a time before jesus but we still existed so unless something changed were in good shape.



who's pissed here???????



been to church....yeah...probably a few hundred you?


you said..." there was a time before jesus but we still existed so unless something changed were in good shape"


???????/

Are you rabbling here? point?

OT



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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OldThinker... you do realize the cross was a pagan symbol correct, the emblem of the Sun God? LONG before Christianity stole it, along with Christmas (birth of the Sun after remaining still (or dead) for three days), and Easter (vernal equinox), and a whole host of other things.... Christianity completely ripped everything from the Egyptians and repackaged it as their own new thing.

I watched the video... and what exactly were we supposed to think he was going to say in a series named "How Great is Our God?"

You use no logic other than a belief in a book (that's been rewritten at least twice, by Constantine and King James) to make a connection between the protein laminin and Jesus. How does that prove anything to anyone?

Especially when the cross originally belongs to pagans and Christianity stole it for their own myth...



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by nj2day
Doesn't this mean that before Jesus came about, people couldn't have existed?



I gotta go to sleep, down in Dallas again...very busy day....


To answer your questions....FOR STARTERS....atleast....


'Before Abraham Was, I Am': A God Outside of Time



link here.... www.beliefnet.com...

excerpt....

The biblical description of God's activity in the world makes a great deal more sense if Augustine's model of time is the correct one: God's ability, as described in the Old Testament, to plan over a period of thousands of years, taking into account all the spanners that his Chosen People are going to throw into the works; the blame that falls on Judas, though Judas' betrayal of Christ fulfils prophecy; puzzling incidents in which Christ apparently overlooks the fact that his disciples are constrained by a chronological point of view and has to re-explain in a way that will make sense to them; Christ's statement 'Before Abraham was born, I am'; and all the incidents of prophecy, great and small. None of it seems so bizarre if God is seeing it and intervening in the whole of 'history' at the same instant, not constraining our free will but taking advantage of our choices and mitigating the consequences. The oddness from our point of view is merely the oddness with which this perfectly feasible activity shows up in our chronological time, where it doesn't mesh and we have no vocabulary to describe it.



Also please see Col 1: here's the highlights, k?


The Supremacy of Christ

15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
21Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[f] your evil behavior. 22But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.



nj2day...so good to hear from you again...JC's been around waaaayyybefore humans...yes....


Good night bro!

CU tomorrow....


OT


Del Frisco's Steak tomorrow I think....hopefully they'll have American Idol on...my girls will be pissed if I don't see....



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
been to church....yeah...probably a few hundred you?


What does church have to do with Jesus? You are aware that Jesus kept the Sabbath day Holy... which does not include church, nor does it include Sunday.. that again, was a paganistic concept adapted by those with Hellenistic views (via Paul, who was himself Hellenistic.. Egyptian, Greek, and Roman belief system.. not Jewish).



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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So, what Holy Spirit had you been at for some hours before you posted this pish? JD or what?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by ImaNutter
 



ImaNutter


OT tried with you 6 months ago...to be patient/kind/etc....


to no avail....


Have a nice life bud....


NO response from me...


you are on your own man....wish you welll




posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


so, since you take everything you read as literal, then we could say that you take the Tanakh (aka "old' testament") as literal too. So, then, all the atrocities (which the Jewish people REALLY wrote as allegorical literature) can be LITERALLY blamed on Jesus in your view. Seems like judas did the world a favor then and should not be looked upon so much as a villain (which, he should not anyway if one truly understood the Jewish Scriptures; which you obviously do not).



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by OldThinker
been to church....yeah...probably a few hundred you?


What does church have to do with Jesus? You are aware that Jesus kept the Sabbath day Holy... which does not include church, nor does it include Sunday.. that again, was a paganistic concept adapted by those with Hellenistic views (via Paul, who was himself Hellenistic.. Egyptian, Greek, and Roman belief system.. not Jewish).



justamomma, thank you...please realize,,,ok?,,,,

the difference between me and you is 'vantage point'...

you are in the tunnel...

OT see's the big picture...

prayin' you take off the blinders....darn that velcro hurts comng off...


LIFE/SUCCESS is not ANALYTICAL....rather GLOBAL...


John 13:34,35 is the key....maybe a bit of Eph 2:8,9


Good night!



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by jBrereton
So, what Holy Spirit had you been at for some hours before you posted this pish? JD or what?



Less Bud Light bro...try again ok?


OT


pish?

JD?

?????



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by ImaNutter
 



ImaNutter


OT tried with you 6 months ago...to be patient/kind/etc....


to no avail....


Have a nice life bud....


NO response from me...


you are on your own man....wish you welll





That is a great way to avoid responding.

What are your thoughts and opinions on the cross originating as the symbol of the Sun God?

Since your entire argument is based around the cross being the symbol of Christianity, it's important to know where the cross came from.

Edit to say this also... I was respectful and kind to you also in that thread, only offering questions to challenge your way of thinking. You never sufficiently answered those questions... and now you're simply ignoring the fact that the cross originated as the sign for the pagan sun god. Do you ignore all facts and questions that challenge your book?

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ImaNutter]



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