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If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

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posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by VooDooVonz
 


Hi Voo,

Actually, anything you hear from the mouth of a preacher is more like you just enlightened us with - do we need to hear you are doing that? Like it is informative?




posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 06:47 AM
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OK so what about the humans who were on the earth before Jesus came on the scene? presumably there bodies were held together by the same"glue" that happened to be cross shaped?,sorry can't see why you would think that this is conclusive in any way.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by nake13
OK so what about the humans who were on the earth before Jesus came on the scene? presumably there bodies were held together by the same"glue" that happened to be cross shaped?,sorry can't see why you would think that this is conclusive in any way.



you are right and you are wrong....

This is NOT conclusive....you are right, just one peice of information.

JC pre-existed the human race....John 1:1-14, Col 3:17, etc




[edit on 23-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by VooDooVonz
True story honestly.


I took a dump this morning and the stool shaped itself into a cross. Does this mean I have a divine rear posterior? I mean like Holy Crap! Am I going to hell for flushing it? Should I have bagged it up and sent it to the Vatican?

Whoopie doo. I am going to go out on a limb here and say, could it just be a coincidence that laminin is shaped like a cross?

I swear you bible beaters. Anything you hear from a preachers mouth is the word of God.


Think Logic!



Thats awful!!!dn:

Shame on you!!!!


OT's gonna EDIT the rest



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 11:16 AM
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Don't get me wrong I was raised Christian. I know most of the bible has been proven to be actual history. I believe about 90% of the bible. It is the Creationalists that chaff my rear end.

Think for one minute about Genesis. You do know that that book was once before word of mouth for generations. Handed down from one to another. Long before it was written. Now, think about the intelligence of the people of that time. I am not saying they were ignorant. You have to admit it isn't like they had Ivy League schools in those days.

If you for instance had been born on an island secluded from all of the technology, schools, or even a basic understanding of the science behind our world. Humans tend to be superstitious. We need and crave the need to understand our world around us and a way to explain Who and Why am I here. Like an infant cuddles a small bear with a heart or rhythmic sound device comforting it.

How would you explain the things around you? How you came to be? WHy are you here? What is your purpose? We seek answers inside of us to explain these things. People take comfort in a higher power looking down upon them. Knowing that something or someone is looking out for them.

This is how I view religions. Created of man to explain his being here. Genesis and Revelations are the only two books I take with a grain of salt. I believe it is up to us in some manner to interpret the word in his own way. I just happen to believe Genesis was a book written from stories passed down for possibly thousands of years before it was finally written down. The creator or author of that book of the bible told the story so people of that day could understand it, simple.

It is my choice to believe in the manner I do. Wrong or right only I am to answer for it on that day. Logically I can not believe it. I know Christianity is all about faith. Is it blasphemy to deny parts of the bible as being truths? I'd like to think as long as I live with its moral principle and live my life in such a manner that would be pleasing to God would I also face damnation for over looking one or two books? If so then I always like hot places.

I have been to churches where it seems the pastor leans on the automatons of the congregation that hang on every word the guy says even when they take the word out of context. Making his view that of his congregation. I can't stand that. Basically that is the reason I left the church and now struggle with my faith.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by VooDooVonz
......Think for one minute about Genesis. You do know that that book was once before word of mouth for generations. Handed down from one to another. Long before it was written. Now, think about the intelligence of the people of that time. I am not saying they were ignorant. You have to admit it isn't like they had Ivy League schools in those days.

..................I have been to churches where it seems the pastor leans on the automatons of the congregation that hang on every word the guy says even when they take the word out of context. Making his view that of his congregation. I can't stand that. Basically that is the reason I left the church and now struggle with my faith.



Much better post!!! Nice job...appreciate your transparency...

Regarding Genesis' please read this article.. www.answersingenesis.org...

Here's a smigin'...


He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:


Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
John 8:56–58—Abraham
Matthew 10:15; 11:23, 24 (Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
John 3:14—Serpent
Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah



Regarding the 2 quote from you above...two thumbs up on that one...


I agree gotta watch out for the snakes...

Hey here's a challenge for you...work through this workbook and U2U OT when you are done...really helped me many moon ago!


Here: www.amazon.com...

Again nice post, some good points...I wish you well in your search..!



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by OldThinker
 


Thank you OldThinker for sharing this clip! Lately I have been feverishly studying the Bible and I feel I am having a revelation. I think the human race as a whole is experiencing this (if they wish to except it). I have found that the Bible is full of modern day science, biology, math you name it and it is all there. It is so cool! We are able to understand the Bible now like never before and I am so excited to see this clip. I almost cried, what a wonderful time to be alive. Thanks again!!!



M101, Welcome to ATS....please keep studying because if you choose to take on some of these great-minded-skeptics, you'll need to bring that A-GAME....


It is a great time to be alive...OT glad you joined!

See ya!

OT



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hey that is cool.. one of the best posts on this board amongst all the conspiracy and doom and gloom sayers.. nice work..

I like not only how the protein looks like a cross but how language which is as old as humanity stated this many years ago and how science reinforces it..


Well hey there anon!

Glad you liked the laminin video...that's the point I think...there is good news..we are loved....in the midst of these uncertain times...glad you liked it!

OT



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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I have all the answers. But The more I learn the more I dont know.
www.myspace.com/thehumandonovan

[edit on 23-2-2009 by MoralOne]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Makes me glad JeZeus got snuffed in ancient times. If he had lived in the last century can you imagine the horror of discovering our cells were held together by tiny little electric chairs?? Oh the Horror!


"Beware of those whose banner of worship is an instrument of state execution."

[edit on 23-2-2009 by Lilitu]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by MoralOne
I have all the answers. But The more I learn the more I dont know.
www.myspace.com/thehumandonovan

[edit on 23-2-2009 by MoralOne]




Yes so true...the things I was sure of at 30...I know laugh at and say, geez, I was pretty ignorant when I was younger, but atleast I had hair


OT



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Lilitu
 





I'm sorry...
I was distracted by your avatar...and missed your point...that's it's purpose huh?



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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All laptop's battery is going...will switch to the treo, but the posts will be smaller for a while...



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


i agree with ur physics and scientific aspects, but religion preys upon the weak by giving them hope in the wrong set of eventualities.

i started to watch the video, but that preacher guy just uses the same physcology all the other preachers use. they talk down to you and give you hope in something we dont need him to master or tell us about.

this society has created a huge hole for the people who dont better (and are looking for answers) to fall into.

study sacred geometry and see your preacher quiver as you learn more about religion and exsistance than he could ever know or teach thru christ!!



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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This is getting funny.Despite presenting a historical facts that the Bible was a fictional book and all the characters are fictional - you all still believe that Jesus was a real person. Jesus and all the other characters in that book was "made-up" by a Piso family in year of 65. The purpose for writing that book was to contra the Jews religion. If you do not believe in my source - look for on internet. The Piso family pull a biggest joke on humanity and most of the people felt for it.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by liesnomore
This is getting funny.Despite presenting a historical facts that the Bible was a fictional book and all the characters are fictional - you all still believe that Jesus was a real person. Jesus and all the other characters in that book was "made-up" by a Piso family in year of 65. The purpose for writing that book was to contra the Jews religion. If you do not believe in my source - look for on internet. The Piso family pull a biggest joke on humanity and most of the people felt for it.



You have no evidence my man...just hopes...hopes you can live the way you want, with no accountability...????


It is important to note that the earliest Christians unanimously and passionately believed that Jesus was alive. It was this belief that caused the Jesus movement to survive and thrive (unlike, say, that of John the Baptist or even bar-Kochba a century later). This conviction allowed Christians to overcome both the discouragement of their leader's death, and later persecution. For another, the criticisms of the empty tomb tradition and of the appearance stories that are typically given by critics can, in my view, be answered. Finally, opponents of the resurrection face one huge embarrassment: No one has ever produced a plausible naturalistic explanation of what happened after the crucifixion that accounts for all the accepted facts (e.g., Jesus was crucified and died; early Christians believed in the resurrection). None of the explanations that have been suggested — wrong tomb, swoon, hallucination, mistaken identity, myth — have any compelling evidence in their favor, and many are so weak as to collapse of their own weight once spelled out.


link: www.wcg.org...


and...

The evidence is clear: The Jesus-myth is a groundless speculation, contrary to all evidence, and totally without basis. Here are our concluding thoughts on the matter:




I have personally come to the conclusion that adherence to the "Jesus-myth" is not the result of careful deliberation of the evidence, but rather, is the product and province of skeptical minds in the grips of an obsession. Long ago, I presented the information on Tacitus above to a Jesus-mythicist - whose ONLY source of data was G. A. Wells. He replied with implications that Tacitus was secretly in league with the Christians of his time! Then, in reply to the opinions of professional and distinguished historians regarding Wells' work, he simply suggested that they had not read Wells carefully, or even at all!

Some may say that this is merely abberational, but it is not: It is the modus operandi of the Jesus-myth circle. One well-known skeptic, Gordon Stein, cited as an authority on Josephus the works of Nathaniel Lardner - from the year 1838! There was no hint that Stein has consulted the works of modern Josephan scholars like Thackery and Feldman; there are no Taciteans, no cites from known experts in Greek and Roman history; instead, the bibliography of his report is bookended with works from G. A. Wells and Arthur Drews! Is this the work of a reasonable person, or someone in the grips of obsession?

The question remains: What on earth could possess otherwise intelligent and educated people to be so uncritical in their beliefs regarding the existence of Jesus? Here is my advice in the matter: If you have encountered people like this, I highly recommend that you provide a clear presentation of the Gospel, then leave them alone. It is a waste of time to deal with such people (except to the extent that they are deceiving others), we perform no service any time that we so much as imply that their views should be taken seriously. Their views are the result of a fallen and sinful human nature, of rampant egotism and arrogance, and nothing more.



more: www.tektonics.org...

Thoughts?

Why are you so anti-christian really?



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 06:41 PM
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JESUS..... the Light of the World.



It is not too late people.... fill your hearts with JESUS.


lol. Anyway this thing on binding protein sounds interesting if it is in fact true. The correlation I would see between that and the whole Jesus love thing is that "love" is the emotion that "binds" things. Makes sense?



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 06:46 PM
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reply to post by Biosynth
 


ooookkk

I'm all for love...

OT



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 10:16 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 

When Moses asked God Who He was, God replied, "I AM". Jesus told skeptics, "Before Abraham came to be, I AM". Jesus said, "When you see me, you see The Father". Jesus said, "I and The Father are ONE." Jesus said, "Father, give me the glory I had with You before the world began".
These are only a few of the declarations of Jesus. Read your Bible.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 02:27 AM
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Originally posted by spellbound
I have never understood how Jesus and God are One. And where does the Holy Spirit come in?

It is perplexing, but at least I know that Jesus is Love.


GoD is not judgement.
gOd is all about judgement.
GoD is not gOd.
GoD is love.
gOd is fear.
The gOd of the big O is man's maker.
The true GoD is the creator of Perfection.
The "last judgement" will be, "you are my beloved Son"
The first judgement was, "I am not my Father's Son".
Between the first judgement and the last judgement is non-stop, constant judgement.
Such judgment makes and maintains the world, and keeps the world turning.
So,
Jesus said, "Judge not".
All judgement must be given over to the Holy Spirit, until judgement is no more.
The Holy Spirit judges for Christ, as Christ, between "sheep" and "goats".
This enables the prodigal son to tell the difference between "true" and "false".
Otherwise, the prodigal son is "lost" in his own judgments.
When the prodigal son stops judging, the world will end.
That is why the "last judgement" is at the end of time.

The Father gave the Son the Kingdom.
The Kingdom is of mind and spirit, in truth.
Mind, divorced from spirit goes wandering.
Mind, wandering, is spellbound.
Spellbound, mind makes another "mind", and calls it "father/gOd".
So, Power, spellbound, makes gOd, which makes man in its image.
So,
Man is a mind spellbound.
The true gospel of innocence dispels a spell cast before the foundation of the world.
The false gospel of guilt keeps the spellbound bound.
The true gospel releases the spellbound to freedom.

Kingdom of God includes Father and Son.
Son "leaves" the Kingdom to be "the prodigal son".
The prodigal son disperses, becomes *many*, and becomes "flesh".
Holy Spirit is created to go after the prodigal son, and bring him back home.
The Holy Spirit, therefore, is "the Savior".
The prodigal son goes back home, "through" the Savior.
So,
Jesus went home "through" the Savior.
What does it mean to "go through"?
It means to be one with the Savior.
It means to be the Savior by laying down the "life" of the prodigal son.
Jesus lay down his "life" long before the cross.
As he lay it down, he took it up again as...the Savior...the Son of God...Christ.
In this way, Jesus went "through" Christ to the Father.
Why?
The Father recognizes only his one Son!
The Father does not recognize man.
Man is not the Father's Son!
Man means nothing to the Father.
The Son means everything to the Father.
The Father sent the Holy Spirit to save the Son from his self-concepts.
Man is a self-concept which destroys the mind of the Son.
Salvation is for the mind of the Son.
The mind of the Son is his "temple".
So Jesus said, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it up again in three days".
He is saying that man destroys the holy temple of the Son, wherein he abides with the Father.

When the attributes of the Holy Spirit are applied to Jesus, the role of the Holy Spirit is confused to the point of subversion.
The confused don't understand that Jesus was saved by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit *is* "the Savior".
The Holy Spirit *is* "the Lord".
The Holy Spirit *is* "the mediator"
The Holy Spirit *is* "the Teacher".
The Holy Spirit *is* "the Redeemer".


This means that Jesus was the very first "Christian" so-to-speak.
To date, few have ever followed the way that Jesus showed.
He showed that the issue is a matter of Identity.
Either we are Christ, or we are in denial.
In denial, we are "man, beast, and every creeping thing".
Jesus accepted himSelf as Christ.
It was the Holy Spirit which taught Jesus to accept himself as Christ.
The Holy Spirit will teach anyone and everyone to accept themselves as Christ.
It matters not how long we deny we are Christ.
So long as we deny, time ticks.
When we accept, time ends.
The Holy Spirit is the "alpha and omega".
The Holy Spirit was there at the beginning of time, and will be there at the end of time.
The Holy Spirit came to be the moment the "prodigal son" took his first step away from the Kingdom of God.
It is the Holy Spirit who calls the son home.
Despite the call, the prodigal son goes far, far away.
The prodigal son makes "the world" his home away from home.
The Holy Spirit makes another world, opposite the prodigal son's.
The Holy Spirit knows all, and has the "masterplan" of salvation.
The Holy Spirit is the only one who knows the whole plan.
The plan is to re-unify the prodigal son, making him the one Son of God again.
This is the plan of "atonement".
Everyone has a vital role to play in the master plan.
Jesus fulfilled his role in the plan of salvation.
If we are to follow, we must also fulfill our role.
In this way, the Holy Spirit orchestrates atonement, gathering the broken pieces of the Son of God back together again.
As the prodigal son goes back home, he passes through the world the Holy Spirit made for him.
The world of the Holy Spirit reflects the Kingdom of God, and entices the Son to come home forever.
The world the Holy Spirit made reflects the Son of God, in all his glory.
The prodigal son is "blind" to this world, as he persues his own.
As the prodigal son let's his own world go, his eyes are opened to "the Son of God".
This is what it really means that "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that who would believe in him would be saved".
God gave the prodigal son the Holy Spirit.
God loves the world the Holy Spirit made, because it is lovable.
Whosovever believes in the world the Holy Spirit made believes in the Son of God.
Believing in the Son of God, he shall "see" the Son of God.
This is what it meant when Jesus said, "The Kingdom of God is at hand".
It is here, now..."at hand".
It can't be seen while the prodigal son still wanders with wanderlust.
Only as the prodigal son sets his sight upon home, does he "see" the reflection of the Kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God is also the "Son of God".
If you see the Son of God, you also see the Kingdom of God.
If you see the Kingdom of God you see the Father.
But the Father is not seen.
The Father is known.
There is no such thing as "sight" in the Kingdom of God.
There is *knowledge*.
Knowledge ends perception.

Christ!



[edit on 24-2-2009 by Christ!]



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