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If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

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posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:01 AM
Fake and BS!

"I believed there was a virgin birth, I believed a man lived inside of a whale, and I believed that the Earth was 5,000 years old. But then something very important happened to me — I graduated sixth grade." -Bill Maher

Contact and debate with your local politicians about their invisible friend, God

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:37 AM
I am a Christian; however, this is nothing even close to unequivocal proof of anything. As one poster noted, the cross or t shape is the most logical shape for any binding element to take.

But more importantly is this. Most Christians unwittingly are breaking on of God's own commandments by kneeling in front of a cross, making the sign of the cross on their body (Catholics), praying in front of or to a cross...etc. God says that you shall not worship idols or symbols. The cross is in fact a symbol and although the intention is good by worshiping the symbol of the moment when Christ gave his life for us, it still is in violation of one of God's laws.

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 02:43 AM
OldThinker, you are on the right track, but with one major error.

Without GOD, you would cease to exist. Not Jesus.

Jesus is God's son, not God. We are all sons and daughters of God.

When Jesus says "Only through me will you reach the father", what he was trying to say is that "only he has the knowledge that can help us understand God".

Jesus taught many people about God, his father, but everyone was busy worshiping Jesus, when Jesus was trying to tell us that we are all like him, we are all "God incarnates".

You are correct OldThinker, the Bible is right in line with science, I figured that out a long time ago. Reading the Bible with this science mindset is like reading the Bible with a "decryption" method.

Most people read the Bible and it is all "encrypted" to them, and confusing, and contradicting. But when you read with with a science mind, it "decrypts" that Bible. When you know GOD is literally EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS, and Jesus existed inside of GOD, and WE exist inside of God, then we are literally "God incarnates" just like Jesus.

Both Christianity, and Islam, and other religions say humans were created with dirt (dust), and water, "Mud". This is science itself.

Humans are 70-80% water, and when they say "dirt" they mean "chemicals" and "minerals" and "matter" that originated from the ground.

American Bible

Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Dust (dirt), Air (breath of life), Water... LIGHT.

The Qur'an describes that Allah "made from water every living thing" (21:30).

The Qur'an describes how Allah created Adam: "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape..." (15:26). And, "He began the creation of man from clay, and made his progeny from a quintessence of fluid" (32:7-8). Thus, human beings have a fundamental attachment to the earth.

I grew up a Christan, and went to Christian school. I can clearly see that Islam and Christianity both have the SAME EXACT view of The All, The Everything, GOD.

What I find really ironic is that they call God, "Allah".

Literally..... ALLah

Science is the study of God. The Bible is "the word of God". That is why the Bible and science are 0ne.

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:20 AM
So... because it -looks- like a cross it's directly related to Jesus?

Did we forget that crucifixions date back waaaaaaay before Jesus?

Did we forget that several other religions way before Christianity had messiahs that were crucified?

Also, I am not too fond of preachers such as the one in the video. It reeks of manipulative and impressionable techniques.

It seems like a coincidence more than anything.

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 03:23 AM
I personally have nothing against Jesus, but even the NT is quite blunt in letting the masses know that it was meant for a certain people and was sold out to "scribes" who warped it into paganism. So, while I say I have nothing against Jesus as I can not even prove he existed, just seeing all this division and argument over something that is simple is very depressing and certainly proves Jesus right when he said he came to cause divisions.

The Tanakh was not meant for all of those who were not Jewish. It was meant for... well, the Jewish. Even Jesus is recorded as saying he did not come for the world but for the house of Israel. Why do you all play into the manipulation and the continuation of division? It is only feeding into the hands of the very ones who seek to control you. I have to admit, seeing all this pointless argument going on makes me incredibly sad considering the Truth is so simple.

G.d is Life... therefore to argue about what happens after only seeks to destroy that LIFE. Live.. be free! Fine OP... the cross holds us together. I am honestly of the impression after reading this that he was not trying to force this "belief" onto anyone... so long as he is not chasing others down and condemning them to hell... I really do not see the harm in him believing this. Caveman mentality resides in most of you anyway.. both those who believe this and those who do not. Jewish SCRIPTURES!! Let them go.. they are for a specific people and all that is required of the rest is to respect each other and live your lives.

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 07:36 AM
"Never believe in one source of information" - I forgot of who said this, but was a smart person. Bible it is a one source of information for a millions of a people as they can not ( or some refuse to) learn about other religions and make their own conclusions. To this time -there are illiterate people who believe in word said by another without questioning their purpose. Church it is the "best business" even ( and specially) in tough economic and personal life. It is in human nature to be "scare of unknown" and having a "hope" it is a short term solution going nowhere. Learning to understand the unknown and find a solution to your fear it is a way to your future. Science and religions are a way of a speculations,experiments as they fully do not understand of "how those things works" and sometimes fallow a wrong path because it is a "mainstream believe".
You need to stop being a "sheep" and make some unscrupulous people rich.
Live a life the way you think it is right and "face your fears".
Education it is the "key" to understanding and one source of information will lead you nowhere.

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 07:40 AM
reply to post by Kukulcangod

There is at least one modern, verifiable,(Probably) account of a man being swallowed by a whale and living!
Apparently, by a sperm whale.
He spent a whole day in the carnivore's belly.
If it had been a basking shark or whale shark, maybe the acid in the stomach wouldn't have been so caustic!
True Tales of Terror on the High Seas

Late that night, working by lantern-light, the tired crewmen removed the stomach of the whale and slowly winched it to the deck for flensing. They were startled to notice movement inside the large sack, movement that looked like something living and breathing. The captain called the ship's doctor who made an incision in the tough flesh. And out slid the doubled up missing sailor, James Bartley, as if he were suffering from severe stomach cramps. He was alive, but unconscious.
The doctor ordered Bartley drenched with sea water, a treatment which restored his consciousness but not his reason, for he babbled incoherently.
Confined to a cabin for several weeks and bound so he could not injure himself in his wild flounderings, Bartley gradually regained his senses. Within a month he was able to relate what had happened to him in his terrifying experience.
Bartley said that as he was cast into the water from the long boat he saw a tremendous mouth open over him and he screamed as he was engulfed by it. He then felt sharp stabbing pains as he was swept across the teeth and then slid feet first down a slimy tube that carried him to the whale's stomach. He could breath, but the hot, fetid odor soon rendered him unconscious and the last thing he remembers was kicking as hard as he could at the soft, yielding stomach. Finally, he lapsed into unconsciousness until he again came to his senses almost a month later.
As a result of his fifteen hours inside the whale's stomach, Bartley lost all the hair on his body and was blind for the rest of his life. His skin was bleached to an unnatural whiteness that gave the appearance of being bloodless, although he was healthy.
James Bartley never made another trip to the sea and settled down to shore life as a cobbler in his native city of Gloucester, England. He died eighteen years after his remarkable survival and terrifying adventure.
On his tombstone in the churchyard at Gloucester is a brief account of his experience at sea and a footnote, which says: James Bartley -1870-1909 - A Modem Jonah.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Clearskies]

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 08:09 AM
Im a Science type guy myself. I know science wont be able to prove or disprove religion any time soon. But I think this is irrelevant. You cant associate every cross shaped object with religion, thats ridiculous. The bible isnt meant to be taken at face value, it is full of stories, not facts. When you read a book by Stephen King, do you take it as everything in the book is a fact and really happened?


posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 08:18 AM
Not so sure about this one...I mean mankind created the cross, and reportedly jesus wasn't even strung up on a cross according to some historians but rather a pole. I think its coincidence we have cross shapes in our body...

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 08:39 AM
reply to post by OldThinker

Hi Old Thinker,
Thank you for taking the time to answer my few questions, which you did excellently may I say. I do appreciate this.

While I do not follow your beliefs I can appreciate your outlook and your choice to Love all people, which makes you Shine in this dim twilight of our current world.

Be well.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by Tayesin]

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 09:03 AM
reply to post by OldThinker

That's great! so if it wasn't for jesus, then all kinds of bacteria wouldn't exist either, including some pretty horrendous diseases! yay!

Go jesus, go jesus!


posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 10:05 AM
Hey OP, you know that 2,2-dimethylpropane too has the shape of a cross?
Same as 3,3-diethylhexane.
Do you know that 3,3-diethylpentane has the shape of a Swastika?
Does that mean Jesus invented ramified linear alcane?

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 10:46 AM

Originally posted by cheeser
There is no genuine historical evidence for Jesus existence, sorry.

[edit on 18/2/09 by cheeser]

Historical Jesus: The Unchanging Reality of the New Testament Record

Historical Jesus: The Unchanging Reality of the New Testament Record
When examined, the “Historical Jesus” movement of the last 100 years has unearthed nothing that undermines the Gospel accounts. There is no "new evidence" supporting the idea that Jesus was merely a “good man.” There is no “new evidence” debunking the accounts of miracles and the resurrection based on new analysis of “myth theory” over a long period of time. To the contrary, recent discoveries have given more credibility to the nature and content of the New Testament record than ever before. Actually, except for the propagated view of the mainstream media, the trend in the last two decades has been for liberal scholars to become more conservative in their views on the reliability of the New Testament record, not less. Recent finds in archaeology are showing more (not less) consistent detail of the time, culture, religion and politics at the time Jesus walked the earth. At the same time, Biblical manuscript credibility has taken great leaps forward (not backward). Do these things prove the miracles or resurrection of Jesus? No. However, when these things are combined with the record of historical accuracy, messianic prophecy, early church growth, Christian persecution, and extra-biblical sources, we see powerful substance (not mythology) underlying the claim that the writers of the New Testament record were eye-witnesses to the events themselves.

For instance, we know from sources outside the Bible that the Apostle Paul died during Nero’s persecution in 64 A.D. We also know that Paul was still alive at the close of Acts, so Acts must have been written sometime before 64 A.D. Since Acts was a continuation of Luke's Gospel, we know that Gospel must have been written even earlier still. Any scholar, including those in the “Historical Jesus” movement, will tell you that the Gospel of Mark predates the Gospel of Luke. This supports the writing of Mark in the 50s A.D., only about two decades after the crucifixion of Jesus. Outside the Gospels, no legitimate scholar will dispute that Paul wrote Romans in the mid-50s. Why is this important? Because Paul declares that Jesus is the resurrected Son of God in the opening lines of that New Testament letter. Galatians is another undisputed letter of Paul written in the mid-50s. Why is this important? Because Paul discusses his interaction with Peter and James, two of Jesus’ primary disciples, at least 14 years earlier in Galatians 1:18 and 2:1. Finally, in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8, Paul proclaims the earliest record of the Christian creed, in which Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and was raised from the dead three days later. Why is this early creed so important? Because scholars, using the historical records of Paul and his early travels to Damascus and Jerusalem, place the above creed at about 35 A.D., just 3 to 5 years after the death of Jesus Christ.



Is Jesus God? The Only Alternatives

Is Jesus God? The Only Alternatives
Is Jesus God? Many people have dealt with this "spiritual" dispute by intellectually accepting Jesus as a great man, great teacher, or great prophet. However, Jesus and His inspired followers didn't mince words when they declared Him to be God (John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40-41 [quoting Isaiah 6:1-10]). Therefore, any type of intellectual compromise calling Jesus a "good man" is logically inconsistent. Why? Because there are really only three legitimate alternatives for the identity of Jesus Christ. He is either a liar, a lunatic or our Lord and God. Since Jesus claimed to be God, His claims are either true or false. If false, He must have been a liar, deliberately misleading the multitudes. Or, He was a lunatic, sincerely believing Himself to be God, when in reality He was just a man. However, if Jesus was a "good man," as most people now agree, how then could He be both good and crazy, or good and a liar? There is only one logically consistent alternative - He must have been telling the truth. In addition to the logical inconsistency, the remarkable historical, archaeological and manuscript evidence shows that Jesus was neither a liar nor a lunatic. Again, the only position left is that His claim is true. Jesus is Lord and God.

The only real argument that remains, is that Jesus was just a legend or myth. There is little likelihood that Jesus' claims are legend. There just wasn't enough time for any legendary development of the story to replace what really happened. For instance, we now know that the Gospels were written 30 to 50 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. More dramatically, we now date some of the early Christian creeds, proclaiming the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, to 3 to 10 years after His crucifixion. This includes Paul's letters to the Corinthians, Romans and Galatians. Finally, if Jesus' claim of deity was a myth, the early Jewish opponents of Christianity would surely have presented the fact that these claims never happened. Unlike modern skeptics, the Jewish rabbis never denied that Jesus made the claim that He was God. Instead, they called Him a liar, and tried Him for blasphemy.


Thoughts? Replys?

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 10:50 AM

Originally posted by cheeser
There is no genuine historical evidence for Jesus existence, sorry.

[edit on 18/2/09 by cheeser]

Prophets foretold the life of Jesus
The Bible has several prophecies foretelling the life and mission of a Messiah, including that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem, be a descendant of King David, suffer for the sins of others and bring salvation to people throughout the world. These prophecies were written long before Jesus was born. It is no surprise that Christians believe that Jesus fulfills these prophecies. But even non-Christians must admit that no other person in history can even claim to have fulfilled these prophecies.

Prophets foretold when the Messiah would appear
The prophets Jeremiah and Daniel offer clues as to when the Messiah would appear. Both prophets lived about 2600 years when the Babylonians invaded the Holy Land, destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, and forced many Jews into exile.
In Jeremiah 23:3-6, the prophet indicates that the Messiah would appear sometime after the Jews returned from their exile. The Jews began returning to their homeland from Babylon about 2500 years ago and rebuilt their Temple.

In Daniel 9:24-27, Daniel indicates that the Messiah would appear before the second Temple was destroyed. And the second Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, more than 1900 years ago.

Jesus, of course, did appear during that interval, and he did proclaim that he was the Messiah that the prophets had spoken of. If Jesus is not the Messiah, then who is? Is it possible that another Messiah appeared and no one noticed? Is it possible that the Messiah hasn't appeared yet, but will in the future? If so, how are we to make sense of these two prophecies from Jeremiah and Daniel?

There is evidence all around us that Jesus is the Messiah that the Biblical prophets spoke of
Some of the Bible's Messianic prophecies speak of a worldwide impact of a Jewish Messiah. Isaiah 49:6 (NIV translation), for example, says, "I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth." Is it merely a coincidence that Christianity, with its promise of salvation to anyone who accepts Jesus as their savior, was the first religion to be evangelized to people (Gentiles) all over the world?

Much more here;

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 10:54 AM

Originally posted by cheeser
There is no genuine historical evidence for Jesus existence, sorry.

[edit on 18/2/09 by cheeser]

First, most historians agree that the early disciples believed that Jesus had risen from the dead. Although at Jesus' death they were dejected and fearful, they were soon dramatically different: They risked their lives repeatedly to preach about Jesus. Even Christians in the second and third centuries (as well as many today) put their lives on the line to preach about Jesus. Of course, erroneous ideas abound, and people sometimes give their lives for erroneous ideas — but only if they think they are true. People do not put their lives on the line for things they don't believe. The disciples never wavered in their belief in Jesus' resurrection. None of them ever changed their story under the pain of persecution. Even agnostic historians will admit that the disciples believed that Jesus had been resurrected.

Now we can consider how dozens of disciples could come to such a conviction. Perhaps the first possibility we could consider is that Jesus didn't really die. Perhaps it wasn't really him on the cross. Maybe Judas led the soldiers to the wrong man, or a substitution was somehow made at the last minute (as Muslims believe). Is it possible that the disciples were in such a state of shock that they did not recognize the substitute on the cross, nor when they took him down to anoint and wrap his body for burial? Was it then a coincidence that the tomb somehow became empty, and his disciples thought he had reappeared? No, all this stretches the imagination so much that this is not seriously considered.

source: so much more here, if you'll look?

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 10:55 AM
reply to post by Jigore

Glad I made your respected foe list...looking to more discussions...


posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Kukulcangod

"I believed there was a virgin birth, I believed a man lived inside of a whale, and I believed that the Earth was 5,000 years old. But then something very important happened to me — I graduated sixth grade." -Bill Maher

My friend...look at the lives, specially the end of their lives, who regularly blaspheme like this..please do some history studying...

The Jewish proverb is always proven true...

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." Prov. 14:12,

I pray for Bill...he's brilliant in some sense, quite funny and articlate...but as a source of living his quotes are empty....and in time you will see this...sorry...

OT would rather listen to these dudes...

John Quincy Adams, the 6th President, said, “I speak as a man of the world to men of the world; and I say to you, Search the Scriptures! The Bible is the book of all others, to be read at all ages, and in all conditions of human life; not to be read once or twice or thrice through, and then laid aside, but to be read in small portions of one or two chapters every day, and never to be intermitted, unless by some overruling necessity.”

Christopher Columbus wrote of his trip, “There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures, a strong and clear testimony from the 44 books of the Old Testament, from the four Gospels, and from the 23 Epistles of the blessed Apostles, encouraging me continually to press forward, and without ceasing for a moment they now encourage me to make haste.”

Ulysses S. Grant, 18th President of the U.S. who said: “I believe the Holy Scriptures, and whoso lives by them will be benefited thereby. Men may differ as to the interpretation, which is human, but the Scriptures are man’s best guide…”

Warren Gamaliel Harding, 29th President of the U.S. who said, “I have always believed in the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, whereby they have become the expression to man of the Word and Will of God.”

Rutherford Birchard Hayes, the 19th President of the U.S., who declared, “I am a firm believer in the Divine teachings, perfect example, and atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I believe also in the Holy Scriptures as the revealed Word of God to the world for its enlightenment and salvation.”

Andrew Jackson on the 7th President of the U.S., who said, “The book, Sir, is the Rock upon which our republic rests.” A few days before his death, Andrew Jackson, said, “Sir, I am in the hands of a merciful God. I have full confidence in His goodness and mercy…The Bible is true. I have tried to conform to its spirit as near as possible. Upon that sacred volume I rest my hope for eternal salvation, through the merits and blood of our blessed Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.”

John Jay was the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and was concurrently president of the American Bible Society.

Daniel Webster, a U.S. Congressman, a US Senator, and Secretary of State who stated, “If there is anything in my thoughts or style commend, the credit is due to my parents for instilling in me an early love of the Scriptures. If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instructions and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity.”
Noah Webster, the author of the first edition of his American Dictionary of the English Language in November, 1828: “Education is useless without the Bible.” “The Bible was America’s basic text book in all fields.” “God’s word, contained in the bible, has furnished all necessary rules to direct our conduct.”

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:07 AM
reply to post by OldThinker


If it wasn't for God, you would cease to exist, would have been the appropriate title.

I watched the link that you gave and I agree with the guy's first half of testimony. The God of the Heaven fashioned man, He watches over His creation, He knows all the names of His creations because it is He who named them, as He has named the stars and everything in the Heavens and the Earth and whatever is between them. It was a powerful speech because it was the Truth and it has the ring of Truth. Praise be to God.

However, the Truth becomes twisted when the glory is ascribed to God's creation instead of the Creator Himself. It is God who formed you from the wombs of your mother and all Praise and Glory belongs to Him Alone. Do not confound Truth with Falsehood and mislead mankind into believing that without Jesus man will cease to exist. God has appointed a term for every man from the time that they are conceived in the womb of their mother, a term which they cannot delay or advance for even one hour. All deceision belongs to God. He is the ONLY Creator, Jesus did not create anything, he couldn't even create a fly, he has no power at all over anything except as God wills. He cannot do anything without God's will. Peace be on him the day he was born, peace be on him the day he died an peace be on him on the day that he will be raised up alive.

O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from it. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!
( Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #73)

Think clearly OT, God has given you a clear similitude here. Jesus, if you call on him cannot avail you anything, he cannot create a singly fly and if a fly took something from him he cannot take it back. It is God that mankind should call upon, not Jesus or any prophet before him or after him. Only God can answer prayers.

Attribute they as partners to Allah those who created nothing, but are themselves created?
( Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #191)

They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #17)

If God willed to destroy Jesus and Mary and all mankind because of this blasphemy, who can save us from the wrath of God?

O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allah in Whom ye claim (your rights) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bare you). Lo! Allah hath been a watcher over you.
( Women , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #1)

Be careful what you call people to believe if you do not want to bear their burden beside yours on the Day of Judgment. Do not be like these people who will bear somewhat of the burden of the people they mislead without knowledge.

That they may bear their burdens undiminished on the Day of Resurrection, with somewhat of the burdens of those whom they mislead without knowledge. Ah! evil is that which they bear!
( The Bees, An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #25)

God is the Creator, ALL Praise and Worship and all the Glory is due to Him Only. If you love Jesus then believe as Jesus believed and bow down to God and prostrate before Him while you still can.

They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #72)

The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him;
( An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #172)

The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!
( Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #75)

This LAMININ theory can work only if the Glory is rightfully ascribed to God, the Ultimate Designer, the Fashioner, the Creator of All Things. Glorified be Allah, the Best of Creators!

Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators!
( The Believers, Al-Mumenoon, Chapter #23, Verse #14)

He is Allah, the Creator, the Shaper out of naught, the Fashioner. His are the most beautiful names. All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Him, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
( Al-Hashr, Chapter #59, Verse #24)


posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:29 AM

Originally posted by queenofangels_17

.....Think clearly OT..... It is God that mankind should call upon, not Jesus or any prophet before him or after him. Only God can answer prayers.

Queen, you make some great points...however I humbly take issue with this one...

Logically JC cannot be JUST a PROPHET...

please see:

And please research Chronicle os Narnia/Cambridge Professor CS Lewis...

He said, "“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: “I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.” That is the one thing we must not say. A man who said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

Prphets don't lie and don't live in psych wards...please think this though...I understand your dilemma...OT's prayin for your friend...

Phil 1:3

posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 11:53 AM
I do not understand. You all talking about Jesus as he was a real person. Jesus was a fictional character in a story book. You all getting a "facts" from that story book. Find other source and point to historical facts of his existence. Other that bible - there is no other reference of his birth and place of origin. You can not take a "religious book" as a historical fact.Wake-up people.You all my as well talking about Indiana Jones. Stop living in a "fantasy world".

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