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If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

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posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 



I know you are...thanks...

Here's some supplemental quick info....I'll get back to you later...


For by him were all things created, which are in heaven and earth, visible and invisible, v. 16. He made all things out of nothing, the highest angel in heaven, as well as men upon earth. He made the world, the upper and lower world, with all the inhabitants of both. All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made which was made, Jn. 1:3. He speaks here as if there were several orders of angels: Whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers, which must signify either different degrees of excellence or different offices and employments. Angels, authorities, and powers, 1 Pt. 3:22. Christ is the eternal wisdom of the Father, and the world was made in wisdom. He is the eternal Word, and the world was made by the word of God. He is the arm of the Lord, and the world was made by that arm. All things are created by him and for him; diÕ autou kai eis auton. Being created by him, they were created for him; being made by his power, they were made according to his pleasure and for his praise. He is the end, as well as the cause of all things. To him are all things, Rom. 11:36; eis auton ta panta. (4.) He was before all things. He had a being before the world was made, before the beginning of time, and therefore from all eternity. Wisdom was with the Father, and possessed by him in the beginning of his ways, before his works of old, Prov. 8:22. And in the beginning the Word was with God and was God, Jn. 1:1. He not only had a being before he was born of the virgin, but he had a being before all time. (5.) By him all things consist. They not only subsist in their beings, but consist in their order and dependences. He not only created them all at first, but it is by the word of his power that they are still upheld, Heb. 1:3. The whole creation is kept together by the power of the Son of God, and made to consist in its proper frame. It is preserved from disbanding and running into confusion.


Also...


By Him creation consists. "For by him were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created by him and for him" (Col. 1:16). How many Christians ever think of Christ as the One "by whom all things are created," as Colossians puts it; "by whom all things were made: as John puts it; "by whom God made the worlds," as Hebrews put it? Why did God make the universe, anyway? He made it that one day Christ might be all in all, that one day, from tiniest electron to mightiest planet, it might glorify Jesus. Scientists cannot give the reason for the universe: Christ is the reason. Creation is now enslaved in corruption, but one day it will display the glory of Christ, the bondage of sin will be broken, the Sons of God be manifested. And Christ not only created the universe and is its object but He sustains it now. The very existence of each of us, to say nothing of our salvation, depends on Him. Without Him the universe would fall apart


link: articles.christiansunite.com...


And...


Mathematics


And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. - Colossians 1:17



God’s creation is filled with both numerical and special relationships. The Christian’s mandate for mathematics is to apply mathematics in order to understand nature, for what math does is see with a finer focus some of the things God made. Not only is math useful to fulfill the dominion mandate of Scripture, it also uniquely reveals certain attributes of the Creator God. In mathematics we find God as the Architect, Contractor, and Builder all in one. One Christian reflects, “Through mathematics, nature stands revealed before us, and through it the Creator of the world has spoken and the Preserver of the world continues to speak.” Without this language, many of the intricate workings of nature would have remained vague or even unknown. In our discovery of mathematics we should praise God saying, “How great is the Maker of both the mind and nature.”




link: www.ccaeagles.org...
Thanks...let me know your thoughts on these...ok?

OT



[edit on 17-2-2009 by OldThinker]




posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Okay. I can read the verses fine, I just have trouble with the interpretation/real world connections-applications. Besides the Bible, can I have some... not "Evidence" but maybe a metaphor or something to help me understand it better? Your idea is interesting but does it somehow depersonify Jesus? It reminds me of the whole "God is in everyone" thing.. am I on the right track?

So wait, God created everything for Jesus? Did Jesus exist before God created everything? I'll be back later, too. We can chat it up.

[edit on 2/17/2009 by ravenshadow13]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 




Should I have used the Ford Oval then


OT



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by ravenshadow13


Did Jesus exist before God created everything?


Actually yes...focus on verse 1 and 3 and 14...


John 1:1-14
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.

6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth




And this one...


"For in him we live and move and have our being." I like it better translated as, "For in him we live and move and are." Or still better: "Only in him do we live. Only in him do we move. And only in him do we exist."


link:www.focusonjesus.org...


think about that....in Him....we..live....move....and ARE....

Whew!!!!!!!!!



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Good stuff...
This also proves that if Jesus didn't exist, we would have no math!
See, the '+' sign looks suspiciously like a cross!!
I wonder if he's trying to tell us something...
Maybe Jesus is the ultimate mathematician?

Sorry for the sarcasm.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by TruthParadox
 







Love ya TP!

Funny....

Hope all is well.....

OT



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by TruthParadox
 


Hey TP where ya been hiding?

we can go one better then the addition sign watch this for a novel turn around

here we have the symbol for the Atheist out campaign

its a lovely big and shiney glorious A

but it gets more interesting then just admiring it, tell me what you see

Adam - he was the very first atheist

God - hmmm no atheism ...wait what his real name ... jeAlous -atheist .. even god doesnt believe in himself and he is the ONLY one that has ANY real EVIDENCE of himself existing .. talk about an inferiority complex

Jesus of nAzAreth - loved the freedom and self responsability of Atheism so much he declared it twice

mAry- mother of jesus also a happy atheist

mAtthew,mArk - part of jesus's Atheism awerness group

luke,john - they were agnostics

pAul/sAul - loved atheism so much even when he changed his name he kept his atheism out there fore all to see


Without Atheism all you religeous folk would cease to exist, atheism is so good even god and jesus want to join in


dam ... no place to fit in some miagi praising ...


[edit on 17/2/09 by noobfun]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 



You are bAAAAAAAd!

OT loved the A-lphabet



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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Can't watch the video since I'm at work, but I'd figure, becuase of the way the molecule is designed, in a floating scenario, the outstretched 'arms' would pivot the molecule downwards, thus making it an inverted cross.

You know what that means, right?

POWERED BY: SATAN!



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 


What a strange world it would be if every little thing had meaning to it (besides the obvious).

This is one of the main flaws in religion (no offense to anyone (oh what the Hell, there's no way I can say "no offense" because the truth often isoffensive)).
Because a big portion of religion consists of looking at the clouds and seeing a shape that looks like a lion, and then turning it into fuel to add to the fire of "faith", and somehow substantiate something which can not be substantiated.

Look for coincidences, and you will find them.
Look for the boogyman, and you will see his shadow.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by TruthParadox
 


well in more true religeous practice of making up meanings and link that dont exist

i present for you Atheistic math

the holy trinity say god(1) and jesus (1) and the holy goat (1)

1+1+1=3 no problem so far

but it also says all 3 are the same entity

3=1 ... now math has a huge problem with that it stops things working properly,

but heres where the evil athesim kicks in

1+1+1= A is valid, but worse still change the value of A and now suddenly

A=1 becomes a workable system

mAths it works


Atheism weve got your numbAz And yA lettAz ..we winz




[edit on 17/2/09 by noobfun]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 


noob, you might Be on to something ..

You are my FRIEND

You are your parents SON

You are your bosses EMPLOYEE


3=1

Kinda like the Father, Son and Spirit

3 in 1



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 

ahh but i cant split up into 3 parts so each go and do a eperate thing

as the christian church has made great pain to say the trinity can in an effort to distances its self from the many earlier trinities it borrowed the idea from

they said 3 seperate aspect gods that created a whole 1+1+1=3 but are not 1 thing

christianity says 3 seperate bits 1+1+1=3 but then it says the 3 are actually 3=1 which is where it breaks

and only by adding A can the 3 =A make sense



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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After reading up plenty on CERNs LHC machine and the quest for the Higgs-Boson 'God' particle, perhaps research is going off in the wrong direction and should searching for a lighter 'Jesus' particle that can explain the interaction between the particles we know about, and the elusive super-heavy 'God' particle/field

'God' is in the Grand Unified Theory, but the 'Devil' is in the detail



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Tayesin
Not necessarily on topic here, so please excuse me.
....
Old Thinker, is there really a need for this Mission to convert? If so my friend, what is that need? Is it your personal need, or the need of the God of your beliefs? No offence meant there.



Tayesin,

No...very on topic...

Thank you so much for the perceptive questions...you know sometimes the pace of these posts are not conducive for thoroughness in my answers...I do apologize for that...

I've just got back to my hotel...and have a few hours to answer you...but I want to be very thorough...so please give me a bit of time, ok?

My hope is to get BACK with you tonight...

God bless

OT

[edit on 17-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by citizen smith
 



very clever response...nice job...even if we disagree...

Two thumbs up



OT



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by citizen smith
 


isnt the jesus particle the graviton?

it gets credited with a lot and all it really does is stick stuff together to try and fill in gaps in matter



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 


You oneness never ceases to be...you are all 3...in time...

The unique-ness comes in the WORK you preform...or relationship to others....

OT

aah, this is really a secondary issue in my mind...



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker

Tayesin,

I've just got back to my hotel...and have a few hours ...but I want to be very thorough...My hope is to get it to you tonight...


o_0 what kind of a thread is this


hey if im doing the making up links religeon bit may as well do some creationist quote mines


You oneness never ceases to be...you are all 3...in time...

The unique-ness comes in the WORK you preform...or relationship to others....
but i can never not know what all of me knows as happens in the bible

jesus talks to god but they should know what each other think bieng 3 and 1

god tells jesus things he doesnt know which again mean they are seperate not just aspects

the holy goat leads jesus to places he doesnt know which shows they are seperate not aspects ....

but were sliding off topic, lets get back to thing i can put A in



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Tayesin

Old Thinker, is there really a need for this Mission to convert? If so my friend, what is that need? Is it your personal need, or the need of the God of your beliefs? No offence meant there.


Technically it revolves around 4 points, some call it the four spiritual laws…see below..but before that here’s a challenge that I take seriously…it was written by a blue-collar fisherman a little less than 2000 years ago…
1 Peter 3:15: “But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy and acknowledge Him as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully.”


Point 1. God LOVES you and offers a positive PLAN for your life. Verses that support this foundational principle are…

God's Love -"God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16 NIV).

God's Plan-[Christ speaking] "I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly" [that it might be full and meaningful] (John 10:10).


Point 2. Man is SINFUL and SEPARATED from God. Therefore, he cannot know and experience God's love and plan for his life.

Man Is Sinful -"All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

Man Is Separated - "The wages of sin is death" [spiritual separation from God] (Romans 6:23).



Point 3. Jesus Christ is God's ONLY provision for man's sin. Through Him you can know and experience God's love and plan for your life.

He Died in Our Place - "God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).

He Rose From the Dead - "Christ died for our sins...He was buried...He was raised on the third day, according to the Scriptures...He appeared to Peter, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred..." (1 Corinthians 15:3-6).

He Is the Only Way to God - "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me'" (John 14:6).


Point 4. We must individually RECEIVE Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord; then we can know and experience God's love and plan for our lives.

We Must Receive Christ - "As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12).

We Receive Christ Through Faith - "By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast" (Ephesians 2:8,9).

We Receive Christ by Personal Invitation - [Christ speaking] "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if any one hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him" (Revelation 3:20).



Obviously I have moved beyond the…”is the Bible God’s Word?” argument…I love JC, try my darnest to love my family, friends and folks I meet…JC has changed/improved my life…as the Apostle Paul said….
I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with you.” Article: www.letusreason.org...

Oh well, that’s it. Thank you for asking…



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