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If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

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posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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Jesus, prophet of Allah, would want you to explore the idea that he may never have existed. Jesus is a spirit with many names. To condem those who do not have faith in him is not very Christian. My religion is much better than yours if yours is so exclusive.




posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by rdintx
 


Hi back at you...thank you so much for your thought-provoking questions...

pls see below ok?

====


Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36
OT response: Context bro…hermanuetics 101 man…”Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation.” (Matthew 23:34-36)



This passage is clearly cross generational. It goes from the distant past (Cain’s treatment of Abel) to the future (I am sending . . . you will kill). What characterizes “this generation” in Matthew 23:36 (the closest parallel usage of genea to that in Matthew 24:34) is not how many years certain people were alive, but their spiritual qualities. Those who rejected Jesus and had Him killed are of the same kind as those who killed the righteous throughout Old Testament history and those who would kill Jesus’ representatives in the future. What all these people have in common is not the era of history they live in, but their negative, spiritual characteristics. This is a vivid example of the qualitative use of “generation” in Matthew and elsewhere in the New Testament and in the Old as well


Link: cicministry.org...
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"Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. "Learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near. In the same way, when you see all these things, know that he is near, at the gates. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Matthew 24:29-35
Answer: Christ foretells his second coming. It is usual for prophets to speak of things as near and just at hand, to express the greatness and certainty of them. Concerning Christ's second coming, it is foretold that there shall be a great change, in order to the making all things new. Then they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds. At his first coming, he was set for a sign that should be spoken against, but at his second coming, a sign that should be admired. Sooner or later, all sinners will be mourners; but repenting sinners look to Christ, and mourn after a godly sort; and those who sow in those tears shall shortly reap in joy. Impenitent sinners shall see Him whom they have pierced, and, though they laugh now, shall mourn and weep in endless horror and despair. The elect of God are scattered abroad; there are some in all places, and all nations; but when that great gathering day comes, there shall not one of them be missing. Distance of place shall keep none out of heaven. Our Lord declares that the Jews should never cease to be a distinct people, until all things he had been predicting were fulfilled. His prophecy reaches to the day of final judgment; therefore he here, ver. 34, foretells that Judah shall never cease to exist as a distinct people, so long as this world shall endure. Men of the world scheme and plan for generation upon generation here, but they plan not with reference to the overwhelming, approaching, and most certain event of Christ's second coming, which shall do away every human scheme, and set aside for ever all that God forbids.Link: www.biblegateway.com...
= = = =
Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power." Mark 9:1
Answer: Here is a prediction of the near approach Christ's kingdom. A glimpse of that kingdom was given in the transfiguration of Christ. Link: www.christnotes.org...
= = = =
Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." Luke 9:27
Answer: Christ's transfiguration was a specimen of that glory in which he will come to judge the world; and was an encouragement to his disciples to suffer for him. Prayer is a transfiguring, transforming duty, which makes the face to shine. Our Lord Jesus, even in his transfiguration, was willing to speak concerning his death and sufferings. In our greatest glories on earth, let us remember that in this world we have no continuing city. What need we have to pray to God for quickening grace, to make us lively! Yet that the disciples might be witnesses of this sign from heaven, after awhile they became awake, so that they were able to give a full account of what passed. But those know not what they say, that talk of making tabernacles on earth for glorified saints in heaven.
Link: www.searchgodsword.org...
= = = = =
There will be signs in the sun, the moon, and the stars, and on earth nations will be in dismay, perplexed by the roaring of the sea and the waves. People will die of fright in anticipation of what is coming upon the world, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these signs begin to happen, stand erect and raise your heads because your redemption is at hand." He taught them a lesson. "Consider the fig tree and all the other trees. When their buds burst open, you see for yourselves and know that summer is now near; in the same way, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. Amen, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. Luke 21:25-33

Answer: With much curiosity those about Christ ask as to the time when the great desolation should be. He answers with clearness and fulness, as far as was necessary to teach them their duty; for all knowledge is desirable as far as it is in order to practice. Though spiritual judgements are the most common in gospel times, yet God makes use of temporal judgments also. Christ tells them what hard things they should suffer for his name's sake, and encourages them to bear up under their trials, and to go on in their work, notwithstanding the opposition they would meet with. God will stand by you, and own you, and assist you. This was remarkably fulfilled after the pouring out of the Spirit, by whom Christ gave his disciples wisdom and utterance. Though we may be losers for Christ, we shall not, we cannot be losers by him, in the end. It is our duty and interest at all times, especially in perilous, trying times, to secure the safety of our own souls. It is by Christian patience we keep possession of our own souls, and keep out all those impressions which would put us out of temper. We may view the prophecy before us much as those Old Testament prophecies, which, together with their great object, embrace, or glance at some nearer object of importance to the church. Having given an idea of the times for about thirty-eight years next to come, Christ shows what all those things would end in, namely, the destruction of Jerusalem, and the utter dispersion of the Jewish nation; which would be a type and figure of Christ's second coming. The scattered Jews around us preach the truth of Christianity; and prove, that though heaven and earth shall pass away, the words of Jesus shall not pass away. They also remind us to pray for those times when neither the real, nor the spiritual Jerusalem, shall any longer be trodden down by the Gentiles, and when both Jews and Gentiles shall be turned to the Lord. When Christ came to destroy the Jews, he came to redeem the Christians that were persecuted and oppressed by them; and then had the churches rest. When he comes to judge the world, he will redeem all that are his from their troubles. So fully did the Divine judgements come upon the Jews, that their city is set as an example before us, to show that sins will not pass unpunished; and that the terrors of the Lord, and his threatenings against impenitent sinners, will all come to pass, even as his word was true, and his wrath great upon Jerusalem.Link: www.biblegateway.com...




[edit on 17-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by earthman4
 



Welcome brother...no argument here...please see.. www.greatcom.org...

and if you can get back to me...OT thinks Jesus being (just) a prophet is quite illogical...

respectfully...

Jesus' distinct claims of being God eliminate the popular ploy of skeptics Who regard Him as just a good moral man or a prophet who said a lot Of profound things. So often that conclusion is passed off as the only one acceptable to scholars or as the obvious result of the intellectual process. The trouble is, many people nod their heads in agreement and never see the fallacy of such reasoning.

C. S. Lewis, who was a professor at Cambridge University and once an agnostic, understood this issue clearly. He writes:

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic ‑on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg‑ or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the son of God: or else a madman or something worse.

Then Lewis adds:

You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.



God bless you...



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:39 PM
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With all due respect, all the general babbling and quotes from the bible have really turned me away from Christ. Too many haters following him. The idea that we must blindly follow someone is so evil. Churches are beggining to see how they are turning off the masses and many doctrins are changing. It is really hard to find Christ with all the semi-retarded followers spewing nonsense and I am certain that the bible was badly translated. Yes I have read it several times. It is full of contradictions, just like life.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 



Nah, its just me, some ole' big teddy bear...


Just "pumpin' the prime" to catch some interest last night...

I'm settled down now....


Nothing that a little medication, or a good beer wouldn't take care of!!!



You doing OK?


Well, since I don't drink anymore...nothing so bad, that a little chocolate wouldn't help!



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
My point is why would the religious have to use it? If god is powerful and all that then converts should come easily and willingly and furthermore this man pretends to show scientific proof of god. That shouldn't require oration, it should require a rather dryly written science paper.



You are absolutely right!!!!

The piano, emotion, etc...should not be needed!!!!

Thanks....

OT

Here's a good one /no piano/emotion...just the facts...if you are interested in space...wait until the slide show at the end...freakin' scarry awesome...

here: search.live.com...



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by earthman4
 



Are there ANY bible verses in the prior post to you?



[edit on 17-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by earthman4
 

ooppppss!!!

[edit on 17-2-2009 by OldThinker]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


DARK Chocolate!!!!

Anti-oxidents...whatever that means????



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


I've already seen that slideshow and was about to post it today but i didn't see anything in that talk that proved the existence of god with science. Maybe i'm missing something.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by OldThinker
 


I've already seen that slideshow and was about to post it today but i didn't see anything in that talk that proved the existence of god with science. Maybe i'm missing something.



Nah, just an amazing slide show on the SIZE of space...

I don't have enough FAITH to believe that just happened....

As a statistics dude, the probabilities of TIME and CHANCE is waaay too low for me...

Probability of an all powerful being, with intellect/design capabilities, who eats Complexity for breakfast is what I'm bettin' on...

Glad you watched it and I wish you well!



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:37 PM
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seriously? SERIOUSLY???

wow, laminin crosses, color me convinced. /sarcasm



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Wethesheeple
reply to post by just_another_yourself
 


ya know what? No one posted anything "In your face." If you don't like the thread title i've got a brilliant idea.... Don't click on it! Wow I know its a groundbreaking idea. The Old Thinker seems like a very humble guy


well im sorry buddy. you completely overlooked what i said. you simply reacted. if oyu would have taken a second to let it sink in you would have seen my intentions.

show me where i said i dont like the thread title?

im sorry but what you said had no relation.

anyways....GOOD thread...for?.....DISCUSSION!!!...genius



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by sinesolis
seriously? SERIOUSLY???

wow, laminin crosses, color me convinced. /sarcasm


No prob...

What WOULD convince you?

OT



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by just_another_yourself
 




Should I be more humble? Yeah, I'm working on that...


Any thoughts on the CONTENT?


Where do you stand with faith? Have you seen... search.live.com...

OT



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Jesus is a protein/enzyme?

OT, you know I heart you... that's kind of how I'm understanding it. Or is this like the Jesus is bread but not really he is body not really he is a symbol, thing?

I'm trying. I really am.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by just_another_yourself
 


ok i'm not going to derail the thread after this but : "but dont post your beliefs up in peoples faces with a thread name like "if it wasnt for jesus you would cease to exist." That came straight from your last post lol.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
I don't have enough FAITH to believe that just happened....

As a statistics dude, the probabilities of TIME and CHANCE is waaay too low for me...

Probability of an all powerful being, with intellect/design capabilities, who eats Complexity for breakfast is what I'm bettin' on...

Glad you watched it and I wish you well!


It doesn't require faith to believe it just happened. We'll eventually prove it completely, it'll just take time and the maths will line up. Sadly this won't convince many people because few could understand the mathematics unless they've spent their lives doing it. Laymens terms would i hope be enough for most people, it would for me


I'm afraid there aren't really any probabilities you can enter to work out the chance of there being a god, probabilities don't belong in that argument. There just aren't any factors to input. Unless you believe the creation videos where they basically make the mathematics up, only to be later trounced by real mathematicians.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by ImaNutter
 


No dancing...we disagree...simple as that...

You think the prior use of a sympol nulifies the video...I think an eternal being, pre-existent, who solidifies a sympol..after coming "in Time" is a pretty neat thing...again think about my Chrysler example...


ok lets compare the chrysler analogy

so chrysler has always existed and then one day decided to appear on earth and reclaim that symbol for its self? ... which there fore shows any use of that symbol prior to chryler appearing as evidence for chryler always existing .... and any examples of anything in nature that look remoltley like the chryler logo when drawn to aid unserstanding prove chrysler made the universe and not just none impresive cars?

the chrysler argument the same as the cross one in relation to lananims

and trips over its own feet

no need for A game here just a praying mantis picture and plenty of Mr Miagi appreciation



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