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Confusion between hell and the lake of fire.

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 03:25 PM
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There is a definite clarification that needs to be made between hell and the lake of fire. Hell is the devils' estate; referred to as, "the god of forces" which basically translates into, "an eternally strong fortress that is a god". It is an unclean being. While the lake of fire is the wrath of God Himself. It is a clean being that God made for His purposes..

King James version: Ezekial 1:4: "And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire enfolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the middle thereof as the color of amber, out of the middle of the fire." Not metal.. This was a bunch of heavenly beings moving around not space-ships made with hands.

The "good guys" angels, multidementional beings, whatever u want to call them were, "with" this fire not against it. Ezekial 1:5: "Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures."etc.

They saw the son of God flying through the sky without the need of a protective craft.. Am I saying anything against belief in ufos? No. I am saying that people are not given the assembly of the vast amount of these realities that exist along these lines that would allow them to differentiate between different beings and functions of eaches existence; good, bad, and mortal.

This is the reason the devil was not, "tormented" until he was thrown into the lake of fire.. Just sharinG.. Bye




posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 04:40 PM
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Thanks for the post! Just a few questions though, isn't it the lake of fire AND brimstone? Can fire also mean electricity? What happens when electricity in the form of lightning strikes combustible material? it burns.............

Brimstone is also another name for Sulfur or some say radiation. Either way the earth's volcanoes spew out gases which sulfur is one of and electricity contains Electromagnetic radiation. I think one of the passages also states "which burneth up to Heaven for ever and ever..................."
Radio signals travel trough space for how long? American Indian creation stories call the Earth a lake.

It sounds like the Earth is the Lake of Fire that burneth up to Heaven for ever and ever if you ask me......



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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There's a lot of confusion between Hell, Gehenna (which was a burning garbage dump on the outskirts of Jerusalem), and Hades. Also there's an interpretation of this existence as a kind of torment or torture, but not purposeful.

This is another one of those vague things about the Bible that people like to manipulate to their own ends, depending on what they want to make other people do. It all depends on whether you want to use the carrot or the stick. If you want people to be good and do what you say, and not risk punishment of being tortured for eternity in fire or whatever, then you tell them about Hell, or use the Greek equivalent of Hades. A place of fire and torment. This works best on people who are, honestly, not that intelligent.

If you want to get a little more sophisticated about it for people who are a little smarter, you tell them that what you basically risk by being "bad" is not so much pain and agony, but non-existence or separation from God. That's a more of a Jewish interpretation.

But it was also picked up a little bit by the Gnostic Christians and re-interpreted. They basically figured out that this existence is a kind of torture at the mercy of a vicious, false God, and that the only way you could get any kind of relief or perspective on it was to have knowledge and understand the truth of the situation. What happens with the real Creator God or our souls or whatever is incomprehensible to us as humans, but if we at least understand that much, then we can make our imprisonment here in this existence a little less horrific by being nice to one another.

Either way, I personally could never understand how anyone could believe that a creator entity who supposedly "loves" you would put you through all kinds of temptation and torment on Earth just to test you (as if he didn't know how it would turn out) and torture you if/when you fail. There's absolutely no logical point to that. It's just sadism.

God gives you a deck of cards to pick from, pretending that you have "free will" in that you are certainly free to pick any card you want. But he's got the deck stacked. So it's all just a joke. Personally, I think anyone who would actually worship such a cruel, insane entity has some serious mental problems.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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Good input anonomous. I believe that the lake of fire is referenced through-out the bible in the way of an afterlife experience. Though I do believe there is much rain of hell apperantly prominent on the Earth..

Not to go off topic but, I have work that basically proves that this universe, being made of matter, is only a vinyard of sorts where life is raised to more appropriately function in agreement with the purposes for which each individual was made.

Everything in this universe, though it may go an immeasurable amount of time from our perspective, would only amount as a very brief moment to those whose body is of an etheric universe.

This etheric universe is demonstrated scientifically. For example; with the annihilation of matter and anit-matter you get a temporary manifestation of an etheric universe which is a balanced universe not being an arcing/field universe made of things with a lot of space between them on their scale of existence. it quickly thins out becoming for the most part unnoticable.

By manifesting this universe through annihilation, it is an indication that invertly, the universe is formed as a result of this one balanced universe being separated into the four different directions of current and anti-current.

Nothing could cause this universe of balanced energt to break out of its norm to form matter other than an intelligence doing it with force.. So while there are references to fire and brimstone, I am sure that, it is only given as a reference for us to relate to while the main theme of those things on the other side of this life is eternally more intense..



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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While I agree that it is written down somewhere that the best way to controll the masses is through morality, spirituality, and patriotism, I believe that the one true God of all things has a greater purpose for our inprisonment here.

One thing I have noticed is that we here in creation often find ourselves saying something like, "What did I do to deserve this terrable event?!", while He haS shown me that on the other side that I mighT say something like, "I did not suffer enough to deserve this".. Does that make me content with these evils that are prominent in the Earth? What do you think?

Your statement, "What happens with the real Creator God or our souls or whatever is incomprehensible to us as humans, but if we at least understand that much, then we can make our imprisonment here in this existence a little less horrific by being nice to one another." Well said.

You have one man that walks down the road with his family and he does not take the care of avoiding every ant on the sidewalk because he is more concerned with the preservation and dignity of the family he is walking with; while an other man walking makes an effort to effectivly squash every ant on the sidewalk. Which is worse? God is eternally greater than us, while we are only measurably greater than an ant.

To sum up what I am saying about the purpose of the lake of fire, is that those in it will be a perfect description/example of what we who are redeemed are not.. The lake of fire resides in heaven; but the things in it are only residing in the lake/wrath of God, and not in heaven..

For example when the clean enter Heaven the lake will run around in circles with joy and jump up on them and lick them in the face; while it only devowers the ones inside it more ferociously because of the love that it has for the clean ones; to put it sort of lightly.

Like I said, "The "good guys" angels, multidementional beings, whatever u want to call them were, "with" this fire not against it. Ezekial 1:5: "Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures."etc."

When it comes to free will, think of it like this; In Genises 7:2 God told Noah to get 7 pairs of every, "clean" animal and 1 pair of every "unclean" creature There are two thrones birthing life into the Earth. One birthing clean life, while the other one births unclean life into it.

So when it comes th free will the clean life will, "tend" to lust after heavenly things in a, "clean" way while the other will lust after things in an offensive, unclean way. People lust for the things of the thrown that they were birthed out from under.

This goes along with Romans 8:28-30. And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by noconsequence]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:36 AM
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What is Hell?

i get into the differences there



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 05:58 AM
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Here is a great movie about the State of the dead. It is just about like what miriam talks about in her link "What is Hell" It gives you a understanding of what happens when we die.

www.john1429.org...



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
Here is a great movie about the State of the dead. It is just about like what miriam talks about in her link "What is Hell" It gives you a understanding of what happens when we die.

www.john1429.org...


that is a very good video, thank you spy..



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 08:56 AM
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First to miriamo566: Wow u put alot of work into those threads. I feel that ur response is reasonable to say the least.

I am saying that hell is the devils estate, and the god of forces; that translates into, "a fortress that is a god" the, "tool for his work" of Isiah 54:16. The devil is at home in his place that is comfortable to him.

That's why he is not, "tormented" until he is thrown into the lake of fire in revelations.. Here; sounds a little far fetched however it's true:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I would also like to say at this point that those, "victoms" of the lake will not be, "people" as you know them, but as it turns out they will have allways been the, "being" of rape, murder, etc. You will see that they are simply that which is worthy of being destroyed/thrown away/rejected, and not victoms..

I have learned that here in this world the devil has given his people an illusion of sight and power, thus the uncanny insight the "bad" people have concerning the movements of, "the good guys". Not that all, "seers" are bad, but trust me the devil seeks to give his people the winning hand here in order to help himself not them.

Invertly, on the other side, it's us that are, all seeing, knowing, and powerful.. Just as we are the, "worthy" victoms here, they will be there; in all truth.. You will not be sitting there saying, "please have mercy on the rape and murder of my family", or condeming God for the burning of the torture of your loved ones; because these people are the being of these evils..

Yes good people have fallin into doing the devils will; however the God of good people knew them through their, "faults" and preserved them above them. The bible says that the, "lukewarm", those that are neither good or evil will be spewed out of His mouth. He is being, and they will simply no longer be.. He is a crueL God?

You obviously have some very intense research miriamo566 thank you for the response to my post.

Yes; I agree that there is rest for Gods people spy66; However, the rest stops for the wicked with the end of this life. Luke 16:27-28 . Earlier in this same chapter it shows that though they are resting they are not, "necessarily" asleep as we know it.. Rest does not necessarily entail, "sleep"; though I do not doubt that that happens as well..

I am one of those who found myself in hell for a moment that seemed an eternity; I know about how it works; and I do not want to go back under its' authority..

Not knowing if I was dead at the moment or not, God made sure that I knew that I was really there when He pulled me out by giving me a brief moment of being totally in both places at the same time.

The intensity of being there would have killed my, "waking" body had God not forced me to live. I was shaking so hard because of what my soul was experiencing that my bones were actually rattleing..

Afterward, I could not function at all until God Himself took the shock of my experience off of me.. It is not a place of sleep..



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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The Bible (Christ specifically) makes clear in several places what Hell is, where there is burning and gnashing of teeth as well as the lake of fire as detailed in Revelation. You can also go to www.biblegateway.com... and type in the following phrases:

Hell
Fire of Hell
Weeping and Gnashing
Lake of Burning
Lake of Fire
Burning Sulfur
Second Death

[edit on 17-2-2009 by saint4God]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Yes.. Thank you.

According to ur page the Lake of fire is only mentioned in Rev.

According to this page the lake of fire is the second death; not hell..

The reason for this is to them though they suffered in hell, they were not yet in, "Gods'" wrath. That is the Lake of fire.. Once they get there they find themselves in a place that is eternally worse than hell itself..

Revelation 14: 10: "Who maketh His angels spirits; His ministers a fiaming fire. "(Psa. 104:4). 'And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and. his image, and receive his mark in his fore., or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name" (Rev 14:9-11).

Q:-Is it hell that, "will" stand in the presence of the angels and of the lamb?
A:- No it is Gods' rightious indignation; which is in fact, "clean"..

Yes the suffering in hell is immeasurably greater than anything here could ever be. I am not saying there is no fire in hell; I am saying Gods' wrath, "the lake" is a clean being. To say Gods' wrath is unclean is to not consider who ur talking about..

You can think of another reason he throws hell and the Devil into it? Assuming it's unclean, than what will He throw the lake into? It is His wrath; not the devils.. "Gods'" wrath is right. It is not a cursed being like death, hell and the Devil are..

To put it in the simplist of terms: The lake of fire is one of the good guys. Hell itself is thrown into the lake because it is a bad guy: meaning the darn thing is, "alive"; otherwise there would be no need for its' punishment..



[edit on 17-2-2009 by noconsequence]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
Here is a great movie about the State of the dead. It is just about like what miriam talks about in her link "What is Hell" It gives you a understanding of what happens when we die.

www.john1429.org...


I watched the video and, like so many of these I have seen, they are one-sided in their presentation and leave out obvious truths.

One of those obvious truths being:

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose , And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [Matthew 27:50-53]

What happened to these sleeping saints? Wouldn't it have been cruel to raise them from the dead and then back to the tombs they go, back into the death sleep?

There is a truth about the death of Believers in Christ, but it is not what this video portrays.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by jdposey
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose , And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [Matthew 27:50-53]

What happened to these sleeping saints? Wouldn't it have been cruel to raise them from the dead and then back to the tombs they go, back into the death sleep?

There is a truth about the death of Believers in Christ, but it is not what this video portrays.


first, more than likely this passage is referring to bodies being thrown out of their tombs as does sometimes happen in earthquakes.

second, even if they were actually resurrected and alive, it would have been in the flesh, not spirit.

third, by your reasoning, jesus was actually being unloving to lazarus by raising him from the dead. wouldnt he had been better off in heaven? instead jesus yanked out of heaven to live as an imperfect human, only to deal with the trauma of dieing again?

you say the video is one sided, but the only other side is the resurrection, which the bible is very clear doesnt happen until the last days



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Thrown out of their graves? Miriam, please, these people were walking around.

Lazarus was not in heaven, that would not have been possible, since Jesus Himself had not even risen from the dead yet. Lazarus was in the same paradise, that Jesus said the thief would be in, when He promised that the thief would be with Him today. Paradise has nothing to do with heaven, nor was paradise located in the heavenlies.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by jdposey
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose , And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. [Matthew 27:50-53]

What happened to these sleeping saints? Wouldn't it have been cruel to raise them from the dead and then back to the tombs they go, back into the death sleep?

There is a truth about the death of Believers in Christ, but it is not what this video portrays.


first, more than likely this passage is referring to bodies being thrown out of their tombs as does sometimes happen in earthquakes.

second, even if they were actually resurrected and alive, it would have been in the flesh, not spirit.

third, by your reasoning, jesus was actually being unloving to lazarus by raising him from the dead. wouldnt he had been better off in heaven? instead jesus yanked out of heaven to live as an imperfect human, only to deal with the trauma of dieing again?

you say the video is one sided, but the only other side is the resurrection, which the bible is very clear doesn't happen until the last days


But Jesus didn't raise Lazarus up from the grave. Jesus also have to tell the people that Lazarus is plainly dead. Meaning he is still sleeping. John 11:11-14.

14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead,


What if the punctuation in Luke 23:43 was altered to give us the impression of the resurrection of Lazarus.

Luke 23:43

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
But Jesus was not in paradise yet.

What if it was suppose to say: "I tell you the truth today, You will be with me in paradise". But not until the last day.

The Bible plainly describes the order of which the resurrection of the dead is going to happen. And Jesus is the first one to be resurrected and then the saints and so on. We resurrect because of what Jesus did on Calve. If not the bible contradicts it self.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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Originally posted by jdposey
reply to post by miriam0566
 


Thrown out of their graves? Miriam, please, these people were walking around.

Lazarus was not in heaven, that would not have been possible, since Jesus Himself had not even risen from the dead yet. Lazarus was in the same paradise, that Jesus said the thief would be in, when He promised that the thief would be with Him today. Paradise has nothing to do with heaven, nor was paradise located in the heavenlies.


that scripture has always been read with a grain of salt, even by scholars.

you would think that a mass resurrection with famous righteous people (saints) would have been worthy of alittle more attention, yet none of the gospel writers elaborate.

obviously there was something lost in translation, but noone at this point knows what.

so the most logical reasoning is that the earthquake exhumed the bodies which may sounds ridiculous to you, but actually has been seen to happen from time to time



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
But Jesus didn't raise Lazarus up from the grave. Jesus also have to tell the people that Lazarus is plainly dead. Meaning he is still sleeping. John 11:11-14.


jesus had to tell his disciples that lazarus was died. they were on route to see lazarus. when jesus arrived, they were already well on in the funeral and likely lazarus would have already been embalmed.

so, yes in effect jesus did raise him from the grave



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 06:31 AM
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I seem to recall that in the last Christian Catechism, the vatican stated that there was in fact "NO SUCH THING AS HELL."

They were sorry for having got it wrong during the last few thousand years.



posted on Feb, 18 2009 @ 08:07 PM
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Thank you for your posts.

[edit on 18-2-2009 by noconsequence]



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