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Our real existence is in Hyperspace and we are part of the Type IV super advanced extraterrestrial c

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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:49 PM

Originally posted by ItsallCrazy

I get the exact same feeling, very strange. Its kinda like every so often (happening more and more recently) you'll look at something or feel something that just isn't 'right' it feels a little surreal or almost as if its a game. (I also get that sometimes certain people almost seem a little programmed)

It's unbelievably hard to explain without sounding mental though..

There's a rational explanation for it--it's called getting older.


Thought-provoking OP; and as someone earlier posted, it is close to the recent proposition that the universe is a hologram. Of course what is so interesting in that idea is that dimensionality actually diminishes in that scenario, since the "real" reality is two-dimensional--going against the grain of New Age thinking and the worship of all those higher dimensional beings they postulate. So we may actually all be Flatlanders.

Both of these theories make use of a "game" analogy to explain the universe, and that reality lies elsewhere--ideas not unlike religion, after all, just positing a different sort of Heaven.

Personally, I find the idea of the recursive universe most compelling: The galaxies are reductions of the universe; the solar systems reductions of the galaxies; the atom a reduction of the solar system, and the sub-atomic particles reductions of the atom.

Most people stop there, but what is it that constitutes the sub-atomic particles themselves--what are their constituants? To my mind, they are made of space and energies and matter, and if one could probe them and experience them one would find oneself in another universe, of sorts, and the whole process of recursion, of diminishing scale, begins again.

The universe, or multiverse, is infinite, endless on both a micro and macro level. We're just caught in one little fleck somewhere on that endless fractal. So to me that rules out some other, "real" place. It's all real, even as absurd place as this world.

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:07 PM
Well that theory kind of cross links with Angels and their place in the universe. Guess one day we will join them but what ever science and philosophy says, they will always deny the creator and something else has to be in its place. But its a good explantion that we are not just flesh type beings too.

Main article: Seraph
The Seraphim (singular "Seraph"), mentioned in Isaiah 6:1-7 [3], serve as the caretakers of God's throne and continuously sing praises: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts. All the earth is filled with His Glory." It is said that such a bright light emanates from them that nothing, not even other divine beings, can look upon them. It is also said that there are four of them surrounding God's throne, where they burn eternally from love and zeal for God. The name Seraphim means "the burning ones."

The Seraphim have six wings; two covering their faces, two covering their feet, and two with which they fly. (See also Revelation 4:8.)

[edit] Cherubim
Main article: Cherub
The Cherubim (singular "Cherub") are beyond the throne of God; they are the guardians of light and of the stars. It is believed that, although they are separated from Earth, the divine light that they filter down from Heaven still touches the lives of living things.

They have four faces: one of each a man, an ox, a lion, and an eagle. The ox-face is considered the "true face", as later on in Ezekiel the ox's face is called a cherub's face (Chapter 10). They have four conjoined wings covered with eyes, and they have ox's feet.

Cherubim are considered the elect beings for the purpose of protection. Cherubim guard the way to the tree of life in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3:24)[4] and the throne of God (Ezekiel 28:14-16). [5]

Their rank among angels is uncertain but they are always categorized in the First Sphere. Some believe them to be an order or class of angels; others hold them to be a class of heavenly beings higher than angels. Cherubim are said to have perfect knowledge of God, surpassed only by the love of the Seraphim.

The Cherubim are mentioned in Genesis 3:24 [4]; Ezekiel 10:17–20 [6], 28:14-16[5]; and 1 Kings 6:23–28 [7].

[edit] Thrones
Main article: Thrones
The Thrones (Gr. thronos) or Elders, also known as the Erelim or Ophanim, are a class of celestial beings mentioned by Paul of Tarsus in Colossians 1:16 (New Testament) and related to the throne of God the Father. They are living symbols of God's justice and authority. They come the closest of all Angels to spiritual perfection and emanate the light of God with mirror-like goodness. They, despite their greatness, are intensely humble, an attribute that allows them to dispense justice with perfect objectivity and without fear of pride or ambition. Because they are living symbols of God's justice and authority, they are called Thrones and have as one of their symbols the throne. These high celestial beings are mentioned again in Revelation 11:16.

[edit] Ophanim
Main article: Ophan
The Ophanim (Heb. owphan: Wheels, also known as Thrones, from the vision of Daniel 7:9) are unusual looking compared to the other celestial beings; They appear as a beryl-coloured wheel-within-a-wheel, their rims covered with hundreds of eyes.

They are closely connected with the Cherubim: "When they moved, the others moved; when they stopped, the others stopped; and when they rose from the earth, the wheels rose along with them; for the spirit of the living creatures [Cherubim] was in the wheels." (Ezekiel 10:17).

According to the mentioned esoteric Christian teachings, the three previous Hierarchies (Seraphim, Cherubim and Ophanim [Thrones/Wheels]) have already reached liberation, thus no longer active in the work of evolution.

[edit] Second Sphere
Angels of the Second Sphere work as heavenly governors.

[edit] Dominions
The Dominions (lat. dominatio, pl. dominationes), also known as the Hashmallim, hold the task of regulating the duties of lower angels. It is only with extreme rarity that the angelic lords make themselves physically known to mortals. Instead, they quietly concern themselves with the details of existence. They are also the angels who preside over nations.

The Dominions are believed to look like divinely beautiful humans with a pair of feathered wings, much like the common representation of Angels, but they are physically characterized from other groups as wielding orbs of light fastened to the heads of their sceptres or on the pommel of their swords.

[edit] Leaders
The Dominions are also translated from the Greek term "kuriotes" as Lordships, related to the Lord Christ-Jesus, and also Leaders. They are presented as the hierarchy of celestial beings Lordships in the De Coelesti Hierarchia.

[edit] Virtues
The Virtues or Strongholds lie beyond the Ophanim (Thrones/Wheels). Their primary duty is to supervise the movements of the heavenly bodies in order to ensure that the cosmos remains in order.

The term appears to be linked to the attribute "Might", from the Greek root "dunamis" in Ephesians 1:21, which is also translated as "Virtue" (probably due to the powerful nature of these high celestial beings; see quotation below). They are presented as the celestial Choir "Virtues", in the Summa Theologica, and the theological conception of these highest beings appears to describe the same high Order, in touch with God, called the Thrones (Gr. thronos).

From Dionysius the Areopagite:

"The name of the holy Virtues signifies a certain powerful and unshakable virility welling forth into all their Godlike energies; not being weak and feeble for any reception of the divine Illuminations granted to it; mounting upwards in fullness of power to an assimilation with God; never falling away from the Divine Life through its own weakness, but ascending unwaveringly to the superessential Virtue which is the Source of virtue: fashioning itself, as far as it may, in virtue; perfectly turned towards the Source of virtue, and flowing forth providentially to those below it, abundantly filling them with virtue."

[edit] Powers
The Powers (lat. potestas (f), pl. potestates) are the bearers of conscience and the keepers of history. They are academically driven and are concerned with ideology, philosophy, theology, religion, and documents pertaining to those studies. Powers are the brain trusts; a group of experts who serve as advisers and policy planners. They are also the warrior angels created to be completely loyal to God. Some believe that no Power has ever fallen from grace, but another theory states that Satan was the Chief of the Powers before he Fell (see also Ephesians 6:12). Their duty is to oversee the distribution of power among humankind, hence their name.

Paul used the term powers in Colossians 1:16 [1] and Ephesians 1:21 [2] but he may have used it to refer to the powers of nations, societies or individuals, instead of referring to angels.

[edit] Authorities
The Powers are also translated, from the Greek term "exousia", as Authorities (see Greek root in Eph 3:10).

These celestial beings appear to collaborate, in power and authority (as implied in their etymology source), with the Principalities (Rulers). Rulers develop ideologies whereas Authorities write the documents and doctrines. Both Authorities (Powers) and Rulers (Principalities) are involved in formulating ideologies. However, Authorities are all-encompassing whereas Rulers are more focused on specific lines of thought. Authorities specialize in putting those ideas into print and in producing actual documents.


posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:19 PM
My take is reality becomes what you believe it is, the rub is you only got one vote. When you look around the world now days there seems to be a lot of people voting for doom n gloom. Most don't really want doom n gloom, they're just unintentionally contributing to it because that is the emotion and outlook permeating their lives in the now.

My point is I think the power of the mind is extremely underated in today's scientific model. We are only just beginning to tap into what I believe to be man's true final frontier the Mind. I believe we are looking to attain status's such as Type IV or whatever through technological means only and neglecting the possibility that we already carry the tools to propel us to these heights.

I know a person can travel and experience unlimited wonders without even moving in their physical body. What you can attain is ultimately not measured by physical limitations. The reason most will never come to know this grander side to life is because of the high pace, go faster, get above, buy more, self centered type of life style must of us in the "free" world have become well acquainted with.

In order to fully realize the true capability of our god given minds it takes, in most cases, a certain amount of self sacrifice. At the very least you have to slow your thoughts down to a point at which they become manageable. It is much harder than it sounds and usually takes years to gain full control over your thoughts. The prize is well worth it, but never visible until it has already arrived.

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:20 PM
Somehow double posted

[edit on 16-2-2009 by Buddy420]

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:22 PM
reply to post by gottago

I reached a startling conclusion one day when my brain was wandering through the mysteries of the cosmos. It came when thinking about the idea that after the big bang the Universe expands but will eventually crunch back down into a super-dense small area again and probably repeat the process ad infinitum.

The Universe is therefore infinite. So if time is meaningless than the whole of all the Universes is one infinite instant, one all existing moment of NOW, in which our reality, and an infinite number of other realities exists. An infinite number of other dimensions in which everything you can imagine (and an infinite number of scenarios you cannot) both can, will, have, and MUST happen. Versions of the Universe, some of them similar to our own, others completely different, some in which NOTHING exists. There is simultaneously everything and nothing.

You can look at it as an infinite line of Big Bang, creation of Universe and expansion, Big Crunch, over and over again, or, because time is meaningless in an infinite Universe, look at it as I do, as infinite instant. It kind of hurt my brain at first when I thought of it and I was quite proud to have come up with it essentially all on my own only to find out others believed something similar...

Not sure how my theory ties into a simulated Universe, unless we're living in one of the infinite realities that IS simulated

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:27 PM

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by theflashor

Hi Flash,

It is a very long movie and I want to go home.

Seriously, if that is the case, why don't we have a few visits home, or even flashbacks?

Of course, Plato went on about all this when he said that there exists somewhere in the universe an 'ideal'.

For example, if you are looking at a table here on earth, the ideal table exists somewhere - and this applies to absolutely everything.

Although I studied Philosophy at University, I have always had trouble with Plato's 'ideals'.

Why can't we live in the ideal?

Maybe our dreams are a mesh of our real lives mixed with our fake ones. Memories?? How many things feel familiar to us in our dreams that we know we have nothing to do with in the physical world.

How can I speak what appears to be to many of my friends alien languages in my sleep.

How can my mother take apart power points without electrocuting her self over and over again. She is no electrician?

Just some food for thought. We can do things in our sleep at times that we can't do in the physical world.

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:10 PM
"Hyperspace", "Shmyperspace".

Whatever the true nature of reality actually is, it isn't going to be figured out so easily by a recently-sentient spurt of primates that just discovered electricity on a cute, green, backwater planet.

This is just silly. Breakthrough after breakthrough after breakthrough...

Infinite realities effecting and changing infinite realities, ignoring concepts of time and space, probably means the existence of many, many "true natures" of reality, and an eternity of discovering the next "New Theory of Everything", over and over.

There are "sciences" that we haven't even seen evidence of yet, and they will lead to new breakthroughs and revisions and deletions.

THAT is the reality that advanced civilizations will be dealing with.

But, for now, there is some large-headed, cosmic god reading this thread from the heart of a singularity, gently scratching behind the ear of some weird creature (his pet) that is made out of time, dark matter and some stuff from another dimension, all the while thinking to himself, "aren't they cute".


[edit on 16-2-2009 by SumnerKagan]

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:52 PM

Originally posted by mattifikation
reply to post by Faiol

Hahaha. Get out of this thread? I'm not getting out of anything. Sorry about your luck.

I'm perfectly okay with "discussing what we are," and so far I'm not convinced that we are some kind of super alien video game. Why would a Type IV civilization want to have a "physical" existence? That doesn't even make sense, really. Their existence would already be physical, otherwise it wouldn't be existence at all.

In this world, there are people who simply cannot accept the fact that we are nothing more than primitive animals. Those people are horrified by the idea that they are nothing more than a biological process that will one day end, causing them to cease to be. So what happens? Their mind invents an alternate reality for them to live in, that isn't quite so scary. They "hide from the truth."

Why do you play video games where you are a 2-dimensional animation?

Imagine if you will a WiFi area that is infinite bandwidth. Imagine you could play any game in it, any adventure in any genera you ever wanted. Would you ignore the opportunity, or maybe want to see what challenges you could get to have fun?

What if you could play, fight, challenge, explore and fall in love other players in any game? Would you?

Imagine this WiFi area is holographic, and that all energy and matter are nothing but ripples in a sea of mini white holes and black holes and everything you experience is nothing, just like your X-Box games.

This is one description. Physics and spirituality start to say the same thing when you really parse the data.

Have fun!


[edit on 2/16/2009 by ZeroGhost]

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:03 PM
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

I certainly understand your perspective and the "aha" moment. Really, the idea in the OP (there's not enough there there to actually call it a theory) is one of an endless number of essentially egocentric visions of "reality." They all assume there's got to be a center somewhere, with the worst of them its some kind of offworld lounge, where everything is wonderful.

But the idea of infinity is humbling, and most people avoid that. How can the universe/multiverse not be infinite? If its bounded, what's on the other side of nothing? More nothing? How much nothing? So this idea of "reality" being somewhere else just doesn't make sense to me in the end. Where is it? Located in the energy field of a sub-atomic particle somewhere in some x-zillionth iteration of the recursion I posted earlier? Doubtful.

Ponder that energy field too--what is it made of? The forces, the space--what's in that space? How can you ever run out of it, sub-divide it to reach nothing? Zero is an abstraction. So down and down you go, burrowing ever deeper, and you peel back the layers of an endless onion.

God, the creator, Heaven, that New Age offworld lounge, etc.--all of them are metaphors in the end. It's just that that undefinable animating force is everywhere, even here. And it is as infinite as creation.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by gottago]

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:44 PM
reply to post by gottago

Some really interesting musings there. I find the theory of a recursive universe fascinating, although I must admit I haven't studied it in depth. I especially liked the last paragraph of your previous post, very Zen.

i am a barely apparent errant arrow
i know not my destination; each participle arrives according to its own principle
if i were to become one of the hungry
let me count fingers on the hands of mans disbanded apathy
trample me
stampede freedom
my quest is at the behest of the keeper of kings
the secret seeker of means
the broken reaper who sings like a phoenix

and when the first forgotten descendant
returns resplendent returns independence
all men will know truth and light
proof of lifes greatest creator

Peace be among all of these, my brethren.

posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:06 PM
reply to post by ExquisitExamplE

Thank you for your post, and for the poem as well, the invocation of a creator. I think that this infinite, recursive universe is inseparable from its spiritual interpretation as well, because the creator is inseparable from creation. He, she or it is not somewhere else, dimensionally or physically, because again, you must create the idea of "somewhere else," of some sort of Heaven. And again you fall into the problem of locating it, of pulling the essential out of the equation and setting it aside for veneration, thereby making this reality unreal and secondary.

Too often, people think our world is banal and dream of this other world. But this is because they take for granted these profound questions and the beauty of them as well. The blossoming of worlds within worlds, the endless layers and density and complexity of creation. We don't think of these things enough, most of us.

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 12:12 AM

Originally posted by badmediadon't know why, but ever since I was a kid I've had this thing where I felt as if I was in a virtual reality.

I just got goosebumps reading that. And I'm a bit frightened to be honest.

The past couple of years, things have started to feel more and more "fake" if you will. Like, we're not really here.

There's also been a few times, where things have "changed", but I'd remember them differently. (Simple things, like locations of doors, telephone booths etc.)

I don't know, but the OP really hit home with me on this one.



My signature expresses my true feelings. And I have many "past" experiences, which don't make any sense, and feel as though they didn't take part here. (Here=Earth/our dimension?)

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Frontkjemper]

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 12:54 AM
reply to post by gottago

Yeah, I always liked how big the questions got, it really is mind boggling. Even in science these days every answer creates two new questions and we will never really KNOW with any certainty the nature of reality (which makes it all the more fun to speculate)...

For some people the uncertainty is frightening, and the idea of infinity scary (I know it was for me at first) but then you realize that the mystery of it all is what keeps it interesting and that some questions are better left unanswered, either because the answer is ugly, or we're not ready for that answer, or perhaps because if we had all the answers life just wouldn't be worth living...

I'm waiting for a paradigm shift, waiting for that moment when our horizons burst open and suddenly everything we thought we knew goes out the window because it will be the only time an uncertain doubter like myself is on firm ground while everyone else, who thought they had the answers, will be floundering

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 05:25 AM

Oddly enough, I do have flashbacks I guess. Supposing it is true. I don't know why, but ever since I was a kid I've had this thing where I felt as if I was in a virtual reality. Like I'm looking into a machine that provides this experience. Something like the movie total recall. I can picture it, but that is about it. As if I'm in a school of a much more advanced technology.

It's not vivid enough to actually like say for sure, but I've always had that feeling. I've had and gained some spiritual knowledge, and that spiritual knowledge doesn't go against the theory either, but doesn't confirm it either - except that life and death is not real and is just an illusion.

Me too, but diferently. During dreams and meditation, I had these strange feeling as if my experience is divided in three. ONe postion is here and now, another somewhere else in a different planet and a third one is the onlooker in a different dimension anmd that thrird one seems to be the basic "me". That one feels as being core me but at the same time totally indifferent towards what I am experiencing here and now. As if it is a experiment. Totally nuts, and I discarded it as dreamstuff, but who knows.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by Pjotr]

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 05:55 AM

Originally posted by moocowman

except that life and death is not real and is just an illusion.

Could it not be the case that life is the illusion and death is just the end of that illusion, a transition/awakening back to the reality, a remembering of what we really are ?

Could it be that fear is a device that would prevent us from remembering, fear being yet another illusion?

Are we in the xbox so to speak, continuity moving through the levels having forgotten that we wrote the game?

Your ball

Yes, I do believe life is the illusion. If death is the end of that illusion is another story. In the end, there is only 1 observer, and that is the father. And it is that tiny bit of the father within you that allows you to be the observer. That allows you to observe this reality. Thus, your soul is born of the father.

Of course, anything less than the fathers perspective of being all knowing and such is the illusion. And I can see why there would be continuations of this illusion beyond this life. The illusion is needed for this experience. A limited perception that is not all knowing is needed for the illusion.

Take a magician who works off slight of hand. If you were to see the trick in what he does, then the illusion is gone. Only if you are not able to view or see the "meat" of the trick being done does the illusion happen.

So yes, life is also an illusion. But consciousness/soul and the ability to observe is not. Physical = illusion. Consciousness/soul = real. I think therefore I am.

I am. Isn't that god? And so it is that bit of you that says "I am" that is a part of god. You just can't imagine how special that is. There is no logic that can create it, no logic that can explain it. It is that which creates logic to begin with. I tried for years. It is possible to create AI which would mimick life and a person to the point where you could not tell the difference between it an another person. But, it would simply be nothing more than patterns and such and there would not actually be any consciousness or observer behind it. It will just follow the logic given to it by the creator. Because only consciousness is able to actually create logic.

So yes, you did technically create this reality/game. However, you must realize father and son relationship. The father is the creator. You are bit of the father, the son. The father has all perspective in all of creation. You, the son are that but in a limited perception. Almost like watching a movie on TV and it gets to the point where only that TV seems like it is in existence, like somehow the entire TV screen becomes all that you see. All things in their proper places. The father sees the movie film from start to end, you watch the movie. But it's more like a choose your own adventure book.

At what point does the game "come to life"? There has to be a consciousness/observer to observe it before it is anything other than a bunch of patterns going around. Where is science without the scientist?

And it's not just in me, it's in you and others as well. I can never prove it's in you. You can never prove it's in me, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that it's in both of us. And this is why commandments are considered sins against god. Kill another person, you've killed the bit of god within them. Why does Jesus call people hypocrites? Because they would do things like kill the person who killed. Stone the guy who said god's name out loud and so on. As if they were doing "god's work". 2 mistakes then, rather than just 1. Love thy neighbor as thyself makes a bit more sense when these things are understood. If you don't understand this, then it seems like just a means of control and then people go around breaking it like hypocrites for their own benefit(and they do, but they are ignorant). Easy way to recognize a hypocrite? They believe their actions are justified.

And yes, fear is a huge tool that keeps this going. Fear is what keeps people in the box. Especially in the past when to think outside the box probably meant someone was going to kill you. Can't seek if you are too scared to ask questions. Can't find the truth that sets you free if you are too scared to seek. Can't open doors if you are too scared to knock. At the same time, don't get caught in someone else's box either. If you just reject something and then accept what someone else says then you've only done the same thing, out of fear. Just another box. Gotta understand things for yourself. As Einstein said, any fool can know, the point is to understand. Anyone can repeat E=mc2, but the point of it is to understand what it means.

Fear keeps us from asking questions and trusting ourselves. So if the point is to remember by asking questions and such, then yes fear keeps us from remembering. Although it is free will that takes away the memories in the first place. As the lack of knowledge is the only way a reality such as this can exist.

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 07:33 AM
reply to post by kindred

"If we are living in some kind of simulation or holographic universe, then I would like to ask the creator if there's any good plots in the pipeline, because quite frankly the current one sucks. Big "G" needs to hire a decent script writer, or maybe you should just call it a day & pull the plug."


I think what the OP implies is that you are the big "G", maybe you should change the script.

This also is reflected scientifically with the "double slit" experiment.

Here is a link - >


Almost every single great thinker/indigenous shaman, has said that "life is a dream". Someone brought up Plato but not his work that really matters (only read 2 pages of posts), that is "The Allegory of the Cave".

Here is a link

The quickest way to format your pre-programmed understanding of reality in order to hasten the "higher" understanding of "Everything from nothing", would be to ingest some form of psychedelic entheogen.

Here is a link


To the "meat & potato" guys that are convinced this illusion is real, try this:

How far are you from you kitchen? Lets take a little walk to our individual kitchens. First lets go half the distance, then half that distance and then half that distance and so on..... Now in this scenario, we can keep on walking to our kitchens for eternity and we will never get there.

No doubt that didn't prove a thing to you but regardless there are many situations in our reality which can create a paradox and its through that paradoxical thinking that one can begin to make (non)sense of his surroundings.


"The truth shall set you free but first it will hurt like hell" - Dr. Edgar Mitchell

[edit on 17-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

[edit on 17-2-2009 by TheRealDonPedros]

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 08:12 AM
I pinched myself and some poor sucker out there in the universe said outch? I don't think so. The Universe can only put up with one me.....and it has a hard enough time doing it.

Heaven, hell, and this earthly existance is so impossible for some people to believe that they need to create more dimensions?

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 09:20 AM
I like this article, im guessing it has to do with the theory michio kaku explainded. I have read about this before.

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:10 AM
reply to post by badmedia

Nice post dude, thanks for the insight as to where you're coming from not unlike Neale Donald Walsche in a way.

So do you think that humanity would do greater justice to itself if it dumped religion and focused on science in order to discover spirituality ? After all science is but the attempt to study the undiscovered, without limitations in a manner of speaking.

posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 10:34 AM
Philosophy and pseudo science are pretty much the same thing. Tesla, referring to Einstein I believe, said something like the equations go round and round and say nothing. Scientific carriers are often made and lost pretending. We are spirit, animating material covers known as mind and body. The spirit is indivisible and has it's origins and home within the purely spiritual regions which are very, very, very far from this material/spiritual temporary plane of existence. There are many, many, many so called dimensions or planes making up both the material and the purely spiritual regions. "Science" hasn't really a clue about anything but this region. Not ever the regions below this one. Material objects of this region can not even be used to see objects of the region above. Mathematical career building and pretending amounts to nothing. Since the spirit itself is the conscious entity it has potential access to inner regions depending on the body occupied and the karmic state at the moment. Spirits incarnating in a human form with the right karma can gain access to higher regions. But without the proper guide they will only descend in the cycle of 84 wasting vast amount of time before they get the right combination of conditions suitable for gaining a real insight into "Hyperspace" again.

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