Round 1: Chissler v Anti – Government: "Education and The NWO", page

Just on a side-note, if you have any edits that are required, contact semperfortis or The Vagabond to do so. The rules state clearly against it and I'd hate to see something silly get in the way of a great debate.

We'll call mulligan on this one.

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I'll begin with a quick response to my opponent's most recent reply and then move forward with my position that our current education system is a covert operation to indoctrinate our youth into the NWO.

One word summarizes my opponent's recent reply.

Doubt

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My opponent doubts that the notions I put forth are feasible. With regards to the true intent of the bells, the schedule, curriculum and the promoting of apathy; my opponent doubts that this is the case. If someone of an opposing view point merely doubts my position, then I rest easy knowing that with the words I speak comes merit.

Bells are not a necessity. They are a choice. A thought-out choice. These could easily be replaced with a simple verbal announcement to inform of the pending transition. The onus does not have to rest on the educator to inform the students to move onto their next lecture. Other avenues could be explored. However, the choice was made to select bells. And these bells are symbolic.

In any totalitarian state, which the education system is, symbols were used to control the masses. Albeit past or present, the emphasis on these symbols were overt. In a totalitarian state under a new world order, such symbols would be crucial in the daily control of the public. And because we all know it is extremely difficult to teach an old dog new tricks, it is essential that these principles of control be instilled from a young age. And rather than invading each home, where else better than the education system? Invade schools and your reach will extend far beyond the surface of society. By instilling these basic measures of control at a young age we are taught to listen and obey. Even as adults this is the case, only the symbols may differ.

What is the basis for a conspiracy theory?

Critical thought.

As stated in my opening reply, critical thought is being pushed to the wayside. Rarely is such a concept promoted in a school curriculum. This truth is obvious as so many conspiracy theories are mocked in the general public and conspiracy theorists are seen as loons. Yet another measure by a totalitarian state to control the masses.

Undermine those who will think for themselves.

In 19 years of being enrolled in an educational facility, never once did I sit and hear of a theory that went against the status quo. Having attended school for almost 8 years after September 11th, 2001, never once did I hear of any theory against the official story of what was released by the commission report. I attended three separate levels of education through these years and not once did an educator ask anyone of a thought or opinion on this major topic that may have went against the official story. We were not to think for ourselves. We were to accept this story as is and move on blindly trusting our government.

This is the system at work.

What separates us...

The old adage of what separates humans from animals is a popular one. Spoken language, our mobile and flexible appendages, etc. All popular responses. All vital to our way of life. However, what separates us from the animals is our ability to process critical thought.

If we were to lose our ability to think critically, however still share in verbal exchange, we would be walking, talking stiffs. We would be the society personified in countless films where totalitarian regimes control society. The critical thinkers in these films are the outsiders. It is through critical thought that we keep our government accountable. And through critical thought, we will be able to fend off the wrath of a New World Order.

So if critical thought is so obviously essential to our way of life, why is so noticeably absent from any school curriculum?

I've heard of specific schools allowing children to apply for small aspects of critical thought within their curriculum, but why so minimized, restricted and almost perceived as an "extra"? Shouldn't it be the foundation? Should it not be the norm?

In my opinion, it should. But it is not which begs the question of the the true intent of the system.

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Life under a New World Order...

"A One World Government and one-unit monetary system, under permanent non-elected hereditary oligarchists who self-select from among their numbers in the form of a feudal system as it was in the Middle Ages. In this One World entity, population will be limited by restrictions on the number of children per family, diseases, wars, famines, until 1 billion people who are useful to the ruling class, in areas which will be strictly and clearly defined, remain as the total world population.

There will be no middle class, only rulers and the servants. All laws will be uniform under a legal system of world courts practicing the same unified code of laws, backed up by a One World Government police force and a One World unified military to enforce laws in all former countries where no national boundaries shall exist. The system will be on the basis of a welfare state; those who are obedient and subservient to the One World Government will be rewarded with the means to live; those who are rebellious will simple be starved to death or be declared outlaws, thus a target for anyone who wishes to kill them. Privately owned firearms or weapons of any kind will be prohibited."

1

Taking the time to read that and consider the true ramifications of such a system, is that something that would carry any water under critical thought? The obvious truth to such a system would be that it benefits the few and punishes the masses, so why would the masses accept it? Well they would accept it if they didn't know any better. And it is through the education system that future generations will not know any better and will be more susceptible to falling victim to such a regime.

Allow me to quote a line here.

We have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves and for future generations a new world order -- a world where the rule of law, not the law of the jungle, governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful -- and we will be -- we have a real chance at this new world order, an order in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders.

2

As many of you know, the man who spoke these words was none other than the 41st President of the United States, George H.W. Bush.

We can close our eyes and try to convince ourselves that much of what I've had to say here is merely hogwash and that those who are in power are trustworthy. But that is buying into the gimmicks that they want. They want us to blindly trust and support, they don't want us to think for ourselves. I support this notion with the very fact that the education system doesn't teach you to think for yourself.

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Socratic Questions...

I will now pose my Socratic questions to my opponent.

1) Do you believe the New World Order exists?
2) Do you believe it is possible than the education system has an ulterior motif?
3) Do you feel that some of your time in school is being wasted?
4) What profession do you intend to seek in the future?
5) Do you believe it would be in your best interest to spend more of your time on studies on the field(s) that are of more interest to you?

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The floor is yours.

I understand the reasons for the post removed but just for clarification I HAVE NOT edited anything that I wrote. I had made a slight mistake when making the titles bold and it ended up making half the debate in bold and half in normal just so you know I wasn’t trying in any way to achieve an unfair advantage or anything like that. I thank semperfortis still for the great job he is doing and the punishment which I deserved. I should have waited for him to come online. And this is a mistake which I HAVE learned from

Also I really do have to apologize here to Chissler because of my mistake and hopefully we can put that behind us and continue and make this a great debate.

Thank you

Yes I do have doubts over what you have said mainly these comments:

Is it really to inform us to move from our next class?

Yes what would you rather have in place that is as practical as a school bell? Also you’re missing out the fact that kids won’t always have a watch with them or always be able to get access to the time. So a school bell is not just necessary it’s absolutely a necessity.

We all know what time it is as any class I've ever been in had a clock.

Is not correct not every class has a clock in it a lot of the times we have to rely on a teacher to be smart enough to bring a watch. Also not every child has access to the time so therefore won’t know it all the time.

So yes I absolutely have doubt but, I mainly with what I think you have said that is wrong.

Bells are not a necessity. They are a choice. A thought-out choice. These could easily be replaced with a simple verbal announcement to inform of the pending transition. The onus does not have to rest on the educator to inform the students to move onto their next lecture. Other avenues could be explored. However, the choice was made to select bells. And these bells are symbolic.

Now yes I agree that yes they could very easily use a “verbal announcement” to inform us. Im debating whether they should could use the school bell which is far easier and more practical because for the verbal announcement you would need someone to do it every day and exactly on time.

Surely its far better to take out the human error factor and use an automated school bell which runs exactly on time each and every day also it would free some time in which to get more work done again another argument in favour of using the school bell.

It isn’t being used to create some sort of submissiveness towards them they are being used because they are the best choice.
I mean would you rather a hand bell or a school bell I know I would rather the school bell.

In any totalitarian state, which the education system is, symbols were used to control the masses. Albeit past or present, the emphasis on these symbols were overt. In a totalitarian state under a new world order, such symbols would be crucial in the daily control of the public.

Again I highly disagree with you there just because we use a school bell in school it doesn’t mean that in the future it will be use against us as a way to control the public it’s just not plausible or probable in any way.

By instilling these basic measures of control at a young age we are taught to listen and obey. Even as adults this is the case, only the symbols may differ.

There isn’t anything wrong with teaching kids to listen and obey just because they do that it doesn’t mean that there is a sinister plot behind it there is nothing wrong with teaching kids (from a young age) to behave.

No sinister plot there just more smarts from the education system they are doing society a great help there.

it is extremely difficult to teach an old dog new tricks

Well that’s not really true is it..

A study led by the Rotman Research Institute at Baycrest Centre for Geriatric Care in Toronto has found that older adults can perform just as well as young adults on visual, short-term memory tests. What's remarkable, however, is that older adults use different areas of the brain than younger people.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Having attended school for almost 8 years after September 11th, 2001, never once did I hear of any theory against the official story of what was released by the commission report.

Mainly because it’s inappropriate to talk about that in school a lot of innocent lives were lost and it’s a pretty touchy subject for most and you’re not exactly at school to learn about what happened on that day you are the school to learn about what effects you in society or to learn valuable skills to be used in society.

So if critical thought is so obviously essential to our way of life, why is so noticeably absent from any school curriculum?

Just because we don’t have a specific lesson in critical thinking it doesn’t mean we are not learning it.

Look at this link it has a list of things that teachers can do to encourage critical thinking and most of them happen in every lesson of every day without fail.

www.criticalthinking.org...

A One World Government and one-unit monetary system, under permanent non-elected hereditary oligarchists who self-select from among their numbers in the form of a feudal system as it was in the Middle Ages. In this One World entity, population will be limited by restrictions on the number of children per family, diseases, wars, famines, until 1 billion people who are useful to the ruling class, in areas which will be strictly and clearly defined, remain as the total world population.

There will be no middle class, only rulers and the servants. All laws will be uniform under a legal system of world courts practicing the same unified code of laws, backed up by a One World Government police force and a One World unified military to enforce laws in all former countries where no national boundaries shall exist. The system will be on the basis of a welfare state; those who are obedient and subservient to the One World Government will be rewarded with the means to live; those who are rebellious will simple be starved to death or be declared outlaws, thus a target for anyone who wishes to kill them. Privately owned firearms or weapons of any kind will be prohibited.

Now im fairly glad you have done all the work and brought this to our attention before I did because sure there are some holes In it I can’t deny that but In the long run it's for the better hood of mankind.

I mean I am myself Anti – Government but a world government would solve a hell of a lot of earth’s global crime and various other annoyances that we encounter every day.

Just imagine it finally stupid wars will be gone forever, Crime will surely be down because all over the world there will be finally unison on what should be done and what should be done correctly, Economy would be far better because there would be just one worldwide currency.

Sadly population will go down but it is all for the better hood of mankind I mean come on isn’t what’s best for the species what comes first isn’t what happens in the long run far better than the short run.

You say we would accept the NWO because of what happens In our education system e.g. With the school bell and the schedule and so on but I really do ask you exactly how the school bell will be used from this NWO or even the schedule and so on.

Also you say that this system will benefit the few and punish the masses and sadly that is a common response to this. The truth is that’s a myth and that this is to benefit everyone in time not just a lucky few or the richest.

Now I see a massive fault there you have got something that none other than George Bush has said now this is a huge mistake considering the man is a blithering idiot but I shall continue...

GEORGE BUSH IS A MASSIVE FOOL

Had to be said anyway read carefully what he had said there?

an order in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfil the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders.

The NWO is not there to ultimately control us they are in existence for our benefit and to further mankind as much as possible.

Socratic Questions...

1)Do you believe the New World Order exists?

Yes I do believe that the NWO exists but I believe that they aren’t here to harm or kill us all they are here to achieve a peace state around the world and to move up a level in human development.

2)Do you believe it is possible than the education system has an ulterior motif?

No I don’t I truly believe that the education system as a whole was put I place to educate and help us reach our own individual potentials.

3)Do you feel that some of your time in school is being wasted?

Of course some of the tie is wasted just like it is in just about every single job that you have worked in or workplace that you have visited it’s not just schools.

4)What profession do you intend to seek in the future?

Firefighter

5)Do you believe it would be in your best interest to spend more of your time on studies on the field(s) that are of more interest to you?

Of course and that’s what im doing at school right now right all I can give you here are experiences that I have gone through at my school and I can’t really speak for a school that I have not been so.

In my school we spent most of our school years learning vital information like for example maths, English and science you know the important main stuff that we should learn then after my exams.

I have been learning about public services and first aid specific skills that I will need since I am progressing into a career in the fire service.


Thank You

Chissler …

I'll begin my rebuttal with a brief response to my opponent's above post and then further elaborate on how the current education system is a covert operation to indoctrinate our youth into the NWO.

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I'll begin by thanking my opponent for telling our readers how wonderful and utopian-like a life under the New World Order would be. I acknowledge that my opponent's position is not necessarily "anti-NWO", however I appreciate that he takes the time to inform our readers that it would seem beneficial to live under such a regime.

With regards to the topic of "bells" in school, I would like to simply comment that my intent on alerting this concept of the education system is to emphasize the symbolism that they come with. I'm not interested in debating the semantics of whether or not it is the most efficient tool of transitioning the students, I'm merely looking to emphasize the symbolic nature of the tool.

While my opponent has made an effort to off-set the practical sense of the bells, he fails to touch on the symbolic nature of the sounding bell.

Originally posted by Anti - Government
There isn’t anything wrong with teaching kids to listen and obey just because they do that it doesn’t mean that there is a sinister plot behind it there is nothing wrong with teaching kids (from a young age) to behave.

Why?

Why should they listen and obey?

I oppose any notion that suggests the teacher is correct on the basis that they are the educator. Teachers isn't even a term that should be used for the most part. They are individuals who get paid to stand in front of a classroom and regurgitate what someone else has already said. They are not teaching anything. They are merely echoing the thoughts of someone who came before them. The few teachers that are out there are the facilitators of discussion that challenge students and promote critical thought.

This notion that my opponent alludes to is the theme of the New World Order. Which is that we should listen and obey to individuals who come with a title. Screw titles. Respect is earned. Students should be courteous as everyone is entitled to courtesy. However, students should not obey every thought of an educator because they are an educator. They should be taught to challenge the viewpoints of all, including their teachers. Not only will this benefit the class, it will hold teachers accountable and push them to be better. No more of this reading the chapter the night before the students did and professing to be the "know all" on the topic.

I've met my fair share of these teachers that can not answer a question outside of what was outlined in the chapter.

Originally posted by Anti - Government
Mainly because it’s inappropriate to talk about that in school a lot of innocent lives were lost and it’s a pretty touchy subject for most and you’re not exactly at school to learn about what happened on that day you are the school to learn about what effects you in society or to learn valuable skills to be used in society.

This was in response to discussion surrounding 9/11.

I'm beginning to question where or not my opponent is a tool of the New World Order.

He asserts that because it is a sensitive subject where innocent lives were lost, we shouldn't talk about it. If that isn't the NWO in a short sentence, I don't know what is. Don't look, don't ask, don't think.. just close and swallow. No thank you!

Sensitive subject or not, the victims of this tragedy are owed by those of us surviving the day to ensure accountability to those guilty. Ignoring it because it is "sensitive" is allowing those victims to die in vain.

Originally posted by Anti - Government
Just because we don’t have a specific lesson in critical thinking it doesn’t mean we are not learning it.

Really? How?

I can't learn to swim without getting in the water. I couldn't learn to drive a bike without getting on one. And I couldn't learn to drive a car without getting behind the wheel. So please, elaborate on how our future generations are going to learn critical thought without practicing it.

I'm very curious.

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I will now examine the answers to the Socratic questions I previously posed.

1)Do you believe the New World Order exists?

Yes I do believe that the NWO exists but I believe that they aren’t here to harm or kill us all they are here to achieve a peace state around the world and to move up a level in human development.

So we have established for the sake of this debate that the NWO does exist.

My opponent asserts that the intent of the NWO is of a positive nature. Whether it is a positive nature or not, the topic of our debate is whether or not they are indoctrinating our youth. It does not imply whether the intentions are good or bad. I believe that they do exist, I believe they are indoctrinating our youth and I also believe their intentions are bad. My opponent agrees that they do exist. He doesn't seem to agree that they are indoctrinating our youth, but does believe that whatever they are doing.. their intentions are good. Interesting.

2)Do you believe it is possible than the education system has an ulterior motif?

No I don’t I truly believe that the education system as a whole was put I place to educate and help us reach our own individual potentials.

Interesting. I will respond to this question with a Socratic question.

3)Do you feel that some of your time in school is being wasted?

Of course some of the tie is wasted just like it is in just about every single job that you have worked in or workplace that you have visited it’s not just schools.

If their goal is to have every individual reach their potential, why would they waste your time?

4)What profession do you intend to seek in the future?

Firefighter

Very honorable. Good for you and best of luck.

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I'll pose my Socratic questions.

1) How can a student learn to think critically if they are not taught it?

I'll post this before posing my second question.

Research tells us that a large majority of gifted and talented students spend most of their day in regular classroom settings (Cox, Daniel, & Boston, 1985). 2

2) If you believe the education system is to have each individual reach their own true potential, why are classes taught at a pace of the slowest child and gifted children left bored?
3) You believe the NWO exists and you believe their intentions are positive. Given that, would you state that it would be beneficial for the NWO to become involved in the current education system?
4) Who do you believe is in charge of the NWO?
5) Why do you oppose the sovereignty of individual nations?

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The floor is yours, my friend.

I would like to simply comment that my intent on alerting this concept of the education system is to emphasize the symbolism that they come with. I'm not interested in debating the semantics of whether or not it is the most efficient tool of transitioning the students, I'm merely looking to emphasize the symbolic nature of the tool.

While my opponent has made an effort to off-set the practical sense of the bells, he fails to touch on the symbolic nature of the sounding bell.

But do you understand that the reason we use a school bell isn’t because it’s going to be used as a tool the reason that it is being used is because it’s practical and it’s the obvious choice. You say you are looking at the symbolic nature of the school bell but the only reason that you are doing this is because you have to do. You have to do it because it is being used and it all goes back to why it’s being used and that’s because it’s practical and the only choice when discussing this matter.

And I ask you how is the school bell symbolic what does it mean why/how could it specifically be used against us? Please answer this I the Socratic question at the bottom of the page thanks.

Why should they listen and obey?

Why shouldn’t they learn to listen and behave we as people function far better if we take our time and relax instead of being all hyped up and running around. We would learn a lot that way and after we leave school we would function a lot better in today’s society.

Think about if you go to a job interview and they see 2 people one of which is calm and does the interview professionally. Then you have someone who is running around messing with everything and is totally unprofessional in the way he handles things, even if he has a better C.V the calm and professional wins every time.

Teachers isn't even a term that should be used for the most part. They are individuals who get paid to stand in front of a classroom and regurgitate what someone else has already said. They are not teaching anything.

And yes teachers are there to teach us and just because they didn’t figure out what they are teaching us first it doesn’t mean they should be faulted because of that they do a very tough job and should be credited for it.

So teachers in general teach us nothing you say well I can happily tell you I have learnt a hell of a lot from my teachers as well as the rest of my pupils also.

They are merely echoing the thoughts of someone who came before them.

Sure just because they are repeating what someone has found out or has said before them doesn’t mean they are failing as teachers it just means that they are trying to teach us what they themselves have been taught. Nothing wrong with that.

This notion that my opponent alludes to is the theme of the New World Order. Which is that we should listen and obey to individuals who come with a title. Screw titles. Respect is earned. Students should be courteous as everyone is entitled to courtesy. However, students should not obey every thought of an educator because they are an educator. They should be taught to challenge the viewpoints of all, including their teachers. Not only will this benefit the class, it will hold teachers accountable and push them to be better. No more of this reading the chapter the night before the students did and professing to be the "know all" on the topic.

I have already stated in a recent post that we are encouraged to challenge what we are being told we certainly do I my school anyway.

I should direct you to the link I gave in my recent post it shows what teachers should do In every lesson of every day and each of them happens In mine every single day

www.criticalthinking.org...

This was in response to discussion surrounding 9/11.

I'm beginning to question where or not my opponent is a tool of the New World Order.

He asserts that because it is a sensitive subject where innocent lives were lost, we shouldn't talk about it. If that isn't the NWO in a short sentence, I don't know what is. Don't look, don't ask, don't think.. just close and swallow. No thank you!

No you have it all wrong there what I said was “you’re not exactly at school to learn about what happened on that day you are the school to learn about what effects you in society or to learn valuable skills to be used in society.” So it’s not the time nor the place to talk about what happened im not saying they absolutely shouldn’t talk about that day because we should but they should talk about and discuss the set lesson. And leave everything else out for another and more appropriate time.

Also if it helps I am not a NWO tool of any kind and what is quite funny is every time you hear someone defending the true nature of the NWO you always get the same common response back “Oh You must be a part of it then” so no I am not a “tool of the NWO” I am merely stating that their intentions are not as bad as everyone thinks they are there to help and push mankind forward.

Really? How?

I can't learn to swim without getting in the water. I couldn't learn to drive a bike without getting on one. And I couldn't learn to drive a car without getting behind the wheel. So please, elaborate on how our future generations are going to learn critical thought without practicing it.

I'm very curious.

Again you have misunderstood I never said that they wasn’t practicing it you didn’t read everything that I said because if you did you would have read this aswell.

“Look at this link it has a list of things that teachers can do to encourage critical thinking and most of them happen in every lesson of every day without fail”

www.criticalthinking.org...

it’s a list of what happens in every lesson of every day or it certainly happens In every lesson I have ever been in without fail.

So that’s how they learn it without specifically having a lesson on the subject.

Thank you.

Response to Socratic Questions
SQ1. How can a student learn to think critically if they are not taught it?

I'll post this before posing my second question.

Research tells us that a large majority of gifted and talented students spend most of their day in regular classroom setting

Because they are taught it which I already stated in this post and in the previous one.

www.criticalthinking.org...

now you give us an external source which states that most gifted children just sit in class and aren’t allowed to reach their individual potential. Here’s a list of people who are extremely gifted but no one thought it at all so who can say who is gifted and who isn’t.

1.Einstein was four years old before he could speak and seven before he could read.
2.Isaac Newton did poorly in grade school.
3.When Thomas Edison was a boy, his teachers told him he was too stupid to learn anything.
4.F.W.Woolworth got a job in a dry goods store when he was 21. But his employers would not let him wait on a customer because he "Didn't have enough sense."
5.A newspaper editor fired Walt Disney because he had "No good ideas."
6.Caruso's music teacher told him. "You can't sing, you have no voice at all."
7.Verner Von Braun flunked 9th grade algebra.
8.Admiral Richard E. Byrd had been retired from the navy, as, "Unfit for service" Until he flew over both poles.
9.Louis Pasteur was rated as mediocre in chemistry when he attended the Royal College.
10.Winston Churchill failed the sixth grade.
www.ri.net...
so in my opinion you can’t label a child gifted because it’s not fair you don’t know if they are or if there not just look at the list above Einstein, Newton, and Edison all normal or below average children and look at what they actually turned out to be.

SQ2: If you believe the education system is to have each individual reach their own true potential, why are classes taught at a pace of the slowest child and gifted children left bored?

Would you prefer they started from the smartest kids and then leave the slower and weaker academically children behind the truth is it far better and easier to start with the weaker ones first look at it this way

Imagine you’re in a classroom that is going to be learning advanced subjects even the weaker children who won’t be able to keep up.

Now imagine you’re In a classroom where everyone is learning the weaker stuff which is still beneficial towards the stronger kinds there is nothing wrong with going back and reading what you have already learned it’s a strong technique in keeping that information in your brain.

Which one is most beneficial?

SQ:3You believe the NWO exists and you believe their intentions are positive. Given that, would you state that it would be beneficial for the NWO to become involved in the current education system?

Yes it would be beneficial but just because it may be slightly beneficial doesn’t mean it has happened I mean I think it’s fairly obvious the true intentions of the education system and it isn’t nothing to do with the NWO

SQ:4Who do you believe is in charge of the NWO?

The simple answer can sometimes be the best… I don’t know

SQ:5Why do you oppose the sovereignty of individual nations?

This is a fairly easy one to answer the reason I oppose them is because of the obvious …Conflict there is always going to be conflict under individual nations that’s a definite truth also it would be far better if we achieved a world under one banner so to speak so that we are all equals.

Socratic Questions:
SQ: 1 how is the school bell symbolic? And what does it mean?
SQ2: How could it specifically be used?

Chissler...