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Chavez wins chance of fresh term

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posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 08:53 PM
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Chavez wins chance of fresh term


news.bbc.co.uk

Venezuelans have voted to lift limits on terms in office for elected officials, allowing President Hugo Chavez to stand for re-election.

Mr Chavez has said he needs to stay in office beyond the end of his second term in 2012 so he can secure what he calls Venezuela's socialist revolution.

Critics say that would concentrate too much power in the presidency.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Mod Edit: Review This Link: Instructions for the Breaking News Forums


* Copy the exact headline of the story into the headline field, don't make one up or sensationalise it. Submissions with inaccurate, biased or otherwise deceptive headlines may be moved, closed or deleted.


[edit on 2/16/2009 by semperfortis]




posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 08:53 PM
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Looks like Chavez' attempt to become a life-long dictator with a folk-hero legacy (a la Fidel Castro) is a step nearer to realization.

What kind of an example/precedent does this set for South America?

In the medium to long-term you have to wonder whether Chavez' policies will bring down the wrath of the liberal economies, perhaps in the form of sanctions, on Venezuela.

One thing's for sure: this guy isn't going away in a hurry...




news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 2/16/2009 by semperfortis]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


Hahahaa. Bush's jealous.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 

That's Democracy and Vensualla can choose which direction to go, they shouldn't fear America. Can't wait till America collapses, all those countries are suffering under American santions can finally be free.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 04:27 AM
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I hear you. But that still leaves the issue of Venezuelan and South American democracy: this guy clearly has his heart set on life-long dictatorship. It may be the people's choice at present, but if they go along with it they will surely live to regret the day they voted themselves out of a vote. Bear in mind this guy has (openly) built close relations with Lukashenko (Belarus), the last dictator in Europe, for example, & you can see where this may well be headed.

Couple that with a South America likely reeling from economic meltdown in the not too distant future. History shows dictators are wont to rise like a pheonix out of such mayhem...



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:11 AM
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if he wanted a dictatorship he would have made it so no one had a say in it
and kept everyone else out like all other dictatorships?

isnt that what a democracy is? people choosing what they want and it looks the majority favor him in power and voted to keep it that way.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
I hear you. But that still leaves the issue of Venezuelan and South American democracy: this guy clearly has his heart set on life-long dictatorship. It may be the people's choice at present, but if they go along with it they will surely live to regret the day they voted themselves out of a vote. Bear in mind this guy has (openly) built close relations with Lukashenko (Belarus), the last dictator in Europe, for example, & you can see where this may well be headed.

Couple that with a South America likely reeling from economic meltdown in the not too distant future. History shows dictators are wont to rise like a pheonix out of such mayhem...



This reform doesn't necessarily mean life long dictatorship, it simply means that the people can choose the same person as long as they want, that is true Democracy don't you think? They can choose someone else if they want, but Chavez can continue applying for the BIG JOB, applying does not mean dictatorship.

I'm sure the people of Vensualla aint that stupid to vote for not voting any more. Let's not forget that America was the one supporting the coup against Chavez to bring in to power military dictatorship in Venzuala.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:17 AM
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posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by bodrul
 


Hi bodrul


if he wanted a dictatorship he would have made it so no one had a say in it
and kept everyone else out like all other dictatorships?

The really cunning ones gain an air of legitimacy before finally clinching power. Chavez' buddy Lukashenko, for example, got himself elected on a ticket of state handouts, then cancelled the next election on the grounds that "Everyone would vote for me anyway" (cue cheesy smile). He's now reverted to 'elections' based on total domination of the media + violent intimidation of any opposition.

Let's just say there are a fair few similarities & that it's not quite democracy as we know it:

news.bbc.co.uk...

He's actually a rather smooth operator. Like all populist leaders he knows a good bandwagon when he sees one:



You've got to give it to him, he's got spirit & quite a gall! But rather than joke about how he might be a candidate for the future presidency of the US I think it's important to realise how Chavez is giving many indications he intends to establish a lasting dictatorship.


reply to post by Ownification
 



This reform doesn't necessarily mean life long dictatorship, it simply means that the people can choose the same person as long as they want, that is true Democracy don't you think? They can choose someone else if they want, but Chavez can continue applying for the BIG JOB, applying does not mean dictatorship.

I'm sure the people of Vensualla aint that stupid to vote for not voting any more.

It's more subtle than that. This guy is shrewd. He has a plan: populist measures such as redistribution of land and wealth, control of the media & absolute power on the back of it. Followed by eventual Castro-style life-long control. It's only a matter of time before those who oppose him are identified as 'enemies of the state' & repressed.

The cleverest thing he's done is gain approval for the way he's run his elections (despite his domination of television). But from here on in the writing is on the wall.




[edit on 16/2/09 by pause4thought]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:57 AM
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OK so it's a conspiracy that he has a plan, maybe. I can't deny something me or you can't prove or disprove. He could but than again Bush could have also don't you think? When he speaks his mind it shows his honesty, it shows that he is not one of those sleezy polititians who will never tell you a straight answer you get me. I rather have a leader who speaks his mind, who is open and tells the world about how he and his people feels instead of twists, turns, lies and deceptions.

If he does end up as a dictator than I will aplaud you for your understanding, it will increase your credibility in my eyes dramatically. But at the moment I don't see it.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:04 AM
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The Venezuelan people have spoken. This is what democracy is about. We may not agree with all the outcomes but hey....



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


I'm certainly not trying to hold up any other politicians as trustworthy, much less GW. The thrust of my argument is that Chavez intends to become indistinguishable from the state, and dictatorship is never pretty.

I'm not trying to be alarmist; I genuinely believe we have seen enough pieces of the jigsaw to have grave concerns, particularly because any impending economic implosion could see the rise of copycat tin-potters across the whole continent.

If I'm wrong I'll be as pleased as anybody. But I hope the people of Venezuela don't stop asking serious questions of this guy.

Incidentally I'm getting the impression you're from that part of the world yourself. Would you perhaps at least agree that Chavez' skill with the media & his gift of the gab mean the nation is being swept along in a way that could potentially be used to usurp all power at a future point in time? It's not that I want to impress with some claim to be able to perceive the future, it's just that charismatic leaders who come to power on populist agendas have a history.


reply to post by tjeffersonsghost
 


I'd normally accept what you say on face value. But what we are looking at here is not simply an election, rather a vote to remove constitutional principles specifically for the purposes of one man. That, I wish to argue, is a dangerous precedent.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought


reply to post by tjeffersonsghost
 


I'd normally accept what you say on face value. But what we are looking at here is not simply an election, rather a vote to remove constitutional principles specifically for the purposes of one man. That, I wish to argue, is a dangerous precedent.


But who are we to judge? If this is how they choose to live then let them wallow in their own ways. We as America need to get off this horse that we need to tell everyone how to live. Im a believer that not everyone wants a capitalistic democracy. Hell I believe not everyone wants a democracy I feel there are plenty of people happy with their dictators in power. If thats what they want then fine let them have it.

I especially now more than ever thinks of hypocritical of any American to bust on Chavez and his socialistic wet dream after seeing socialism here in our own states. The only difference is the socialism there is going to the people and the socialism here is going to the wealth bankers and big business....We are full fledged socialists here pause4thought and over in the UK also. When the rich fail we bail them out or nationalize them. Does this sound like capitalism? Not only did this socialism happen it happened with 90% of the population being against it but it still happened anyways. It almost as if we here in America have our own dictatorship we have to worry about isnt it? So Ill post the question again who are we to judge how people choose and I emphasize choose to live their lives.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by tjeffersonsghost
 


tj: I recognize a powerful line of argument when I see one. I'm actually going to put my hands up and say I can't argue with that.

There is indeed a danger we look on from the outside & judge while our own house is far from being in order.

My only proviso is that I wouldn't want to see a population being taken in unnecessarily, to the degree warning signs can be picked up early, i.e. right now in Venezuela - especially if things turn out bloody (as they have in Belarus & Zimbabwe, to name but two).

Still, some of us have to admit we have reacted far too slowly to the erosion of our own freedoms at home!



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by pause4thought
 


what is democaracy as we know it?

i would like to know. how Their ellections doesnt fit into what we call democaracy. as i recall in the US they can stop people from voting and in many places Votes wernt counted in some whihc bought on anger from some people.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by tjeffersonsghost
 


tj: I recognize a powerful line of argument when I see one. I'm actually going to put my hands up and say I can't argue with that.

There is indeed a danger we look on from the outside & judge while our own house is far from being in order.

My only proviso is that I wouldn't want to see a population being taken in unnecessarily, to the degree warning signs can be picked up early, i.e. right now in Venezuela - especially if things turn out bloody (as they have in Belarus & Zimbabwe, to name but two).

Still, some of us have to admit we have reacted far too slowly to the erosion of our own freedoms at home!


Now if the question is "Is this a good thing?" Ill agree with you and say no its not good. De facto dictatorships are no better than normal ones. At the end of the day the people of Venezuela will have to live with their decision just like we have to live with ours... As you said in regards to what I was saying I think we have some serious work to do here at home before we can tell others how to live their lives. Our country has been hi jacked by a two party dictatorship who stays in power by diverting our attention from our own problems to others. While people are all rowled up by Iran, Venezuela, and company we are getting our rights yanked and our wealth stole by the very people doing the finger pointing....


[edit on 16-2-2009 by tjeffersonsghost]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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Is this law only for Chavez or for every future president? If it is for every future president and the elections are being held with more than one candidate i'm not seeing a problem. If one of those are not the case it would be a problem.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by bodrul
 



what is democaracy as we know it?

I was referring to equal access to the mass media. Clearly Chavez' weekly 5-8 hour rants on national television are not counterbalanced by equal exposure for opposition voices. Anyone who missed it can click on the BBC link from my last reply to bodrul to see what I'm referring to, (although it's fairly legendary by now).

You make a fair point, though. US democracy has largely sold out to corporate interests via political funding and the impact of politicians' personal stake in key industries, such as oil and defence, and the media are ultimately controlled by a handful of pseudo oligarchs.

I still wouldn't trust any johnny-come-lately knight in shining armour, though. What's needed is a restoration of what has been eroded.

I recommend 'The Assault on Reason' by Al Gore as a very good starting point, incidentally. Very good.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by tjeffersonsghost
 


It seems Venezuela is holding a mirror up to us all! Fascinating. This is proving quite an enlightening discussion.


reply to post by Harman
 


I simply don't believe it has occurred to Chavez there might come a day when he's no longer president. He may well have already succeeded in planting the same insidious gut feeling in the hearts of many Venezuelans, which I find disturbing. It's at once subtle, yet in your face - if people are willing to admit to the sneaking suspicion, which may not yet be the case within the country itself, I suspect.



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