Someone Please Explain To Me - The Theory that Jupiter Ignited - while behind the Sun right now

reply to post by daz__


I mean what do you have to say of the proven scientific fact that jupiter is a dwarf star.. A star that failed to ignite

there you have it FAILED you dittohead...

ITS NOT GOING TO BE A STAR BECOUSE IT CANT BE ONE..

do you even read what infact you type?? and NO i dont mean that in a bad way im just pointing out WHAT YOU SAID..

it failed FOR A REASON

have you ever dont astrophysics befor? or even understand WHY its not a sun nor shall it ever be one..?

BECOUSE IF IT WAS OR HAD THE SAME PROPERTIES OF THE SUN THEN IT WOULD BE ONE..

the mind does boggle............................... IRM help me out here buddie

First of all, I heard that it NEARLY has the mass to be a small star. It's not like someone can go there with a lighter and ignite it, it just needs to reach critical mass and the fusion will start in it's core.

Secondly: What explosion?? A nova is when a star DIES, not when it ignites.

Thirdly: OP, have you got links to the theory? It's the first I've heard about it. The only thing I remember was a few years back, when they were worried that the comet (or whatever it was) would hit and push it over critical mass.

Having said all that, looking at wiki it sounds way more complicated than that...

if it did get to a star classification, brown dwarf would be it.

but it would need some more mass, 13+ times, according to this,



www.daviddarling.info...


if somehow it got the mass, i don't think it would blow up, just kinda smolder.

reply to post by questioningall


someone has been watching 2001 space oddity to much

ITS A MOVIE FFS.

Its not based on science ITS A SI-FI MOVIE.

Arthure C clarke thought of the IDEA of how life could be created by the OBBLISK.. "eater of worlds" if you ever watch the film "and yes its one of my favs" then you will understand the MEANING of the film...

its got # all to do with jupiter its about LIFE on EUROPA ... jeezzz

its not a theory its some twisted kid who is totaly engrossed in the idea there is some oblissk in the sky about to EAT jupiter and turn it INTO a star that will fasilitate LIFE on eurpa..

ALL THE PLANETS ARE YOURS LEAVE EUROPA ALONE

oh great now im a movie BUFF.. ffs how dumb are people? no wonder we have indigo stuck up there own ass children with people running about confusing REALITY with FICTION.. fs

if thats a theory then PLUTO is a asteroid BECOUSE I SAID SO...

Originally posted by daz__

Originally posted by theresult
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

you are a little sure of your-self don't you think..
i would like to dissagree with you on this and say the the opposite..
infact both Jupiter and Saturn both display sun like properties. The reason I say this is that it has been found by probes that both objects give off a proton wind which is exactly what the sun appears to do so this would suggest that both Saturn and Jupiter are Sun's in their own right.. They both give off more energy than they recieve from the sun..

I find it kind of amusing the way people throw around the standard scientific explanations claiming them to be fact and lets hear no more about it thank you..

I mean what do you have to say of the proven scientific fact that jupiter is a dwarf star.. A star that failed to ignite and that comes from the same standard science that you just clobbered the OP with...

As to jupiter just after igniting on the other side of the sun. who knows yet but i guess we will soon find the truth..

peace

daz__

So why do you bother writing anything if all we have is STANDARD SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATIONS? everything you said in your reply about probes and protons are infact STANDARD SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATIONS


[edit on 2/15/2009 by altered_states]

reply to post by Aldolas


nova in respects = explostion

or what do you think jupiter would do transforming into a stat? fart?

It has to shead its mass "that it infact has not got to become a start"

NOVA... = BOOOM

Originally posted by theresult
Im just pointing out this here.. IF it was the case then dont you thing the gravity of "jupiter" would affect earths OWN rotation around the sun

Disclaimer; Devils advocate mode engaged

And just why would the gravitational influence of 'second sun Jupiter' change so dramatically as to affect Earth's orbit? Did it suddenly increase in mass??? If it did ignite it would slowly loose some mass, but a very small amount in proportion

Common guys, Use your science heads!

Originally posted by daz__

I mean what do you have to say of the proven scientific fact that jupiter is a dwarf star.. A star that failed to ignite and that comes from the same standard science that you just clobbered the OP with...

Dwarf Star? Star you say? Ummm, proven scientific fact? On what? The back of a Wheaties packet? Jupiter is NOT a dwarf star! For lack of a better term, some have called it a 'failed star'. It's a fanciful term that simply means a planet that never acquired enough mass to become a star... Therefore leaving it as simply a Planet. Last time I heard, we only had one Sun in our Solar System and no mention whatsoever of a dwarf star.

As to jupiter just after igniting on the other side of the sun. who knows yet but i guess we will soon find the truth..

We already know the truth. To even slightly entertain the idea and wait for visual confirmation is ludicrous!

Thanks for injecting some humor into the debate though!

IRM

When I started this thread, it was because, I obviously don't know what Juipter is made off - I am assuming gases - from postings here.

So, first I did not start this, to just have people come in and say "how stupid" the idea is.....

I am not a "science" person...........

I have read on various (alternate) websites about this recently.

The first time I read it, I just disregarded it immediately, as I had never heard of "such a thing" possibly happening before.

Then I saw it on 2 other (alternate) sites, so I decided, there must be some "science" behind this...

I started this thread, to try and have people "come together" to help explain the "science" behind this!!!

Instead, people are just attacking each other on their own beliefs or "what could be".

Please STOP that.............. maybe it is something that seems or is out of the realm of possiblity.....................

but I HAD NEVER HEARD of that possiblity before...................

SO - I will ASK one more time......................... could this please be discussed without all the bickering back and forth.

If you think it is idiotic,.... that is fine,,,,,, but lets not put each other down here.

I am TRYING TO LEARN - about the whole prospect of this possibly occuring and WHY!!

Here is one link: as asked by someone in an earlier posting...... but it does not give info, only states:

www.astronomyforum.net...




[edit on 15-2-2009 by questioningall]

Originally posted by questioningall
Okay,

first everyone is posting these attack type posts.........

that is NOT THE POINT of THIS thread!!!

First, as I said......... I had NEVER EVEN HEARD of a theory like that before of "Jupiter Igniting".

OKay? so that is the FIRST base of this thread!!

Where does that "theory" of possiblity come from?

NOW - second................... WHY am I seeing in various websites.......... the thought that IT HAS OCCURED - while it has been on the other side of the sun right now?

I don't just want post of "What a stupid theory" - I WANT TO KNOW
WHERE that Theory comes from and WHY!???

What is the BASIS of the "theory"!?

[edit on 15-2-2009 by questioningall]

i don't know why it's so hard to type into google "saturn ignite" or "jupiter ignite" .. but anyway i did it for you even though it took less energy than it did for you to write those 2 huge posts about how you don't know what this is all about and you want to find out so badly.

the cassini mission was under a tremendous amount of controversy when it was declared that 72 lbs of weapons grade plutonium was going to be on board.. and then sent into the planet's core when the mission was done.

this was aimed to be done in april 09' but at that time NASA stated they'd extend the mission for 2 more years.

so i dont know about jupiter being ignited.. not sure what probe is out there now.. but cassini is around saturn..

heres some material to help you get better acquainted with the whole conspiracy theory surrounding our gas giants and their supposed ignition.

www.google.com..."lucifer+project"

another thing.. if it's been ignited now.. then i would presume it would take a number of weeks for the material to reach us.. though it would have had to get through the sun i guess..

i dont know.. it's one of those wait and see and if it doesnt happen then forget about it type things.

of course.. the people planning it could do a hoax rumor to make people say oh it's a hoax and then forget about it.. i mean.. that's what i'd do. heheh.
i mean hell.. it works right?

-

reply to post by Now_Then


errrr.... its caurse and effect..

Dittoheads .. IF JUPITER WAS OR DID TURN INTO A SUN THE GRAVITALTION PULL WOULD EFFECT EARTH

its also called equilibrium ffs

dont people understand this? the only reason earth and all the other planets are in the ORBIT they are is becouse of the equilibrium of each mass of the orbiting BODY ...

god get a grip

What you are all seeming to forget, in your fascinating hypothetical discussion of "What if Jupiter magically turned into a star?" is that Jupiter is approximately 685 million miles from the Earth. (To put that in perspective, the sun is around 93 million miles from us.) If Jupiter did somehow gain 75 times its current mass, which is what it would require in order to achieve fusion, it wouldn't even singe us here on Earth.

reply to post by theresult


OK... Why would Jupiter's mass change just because it became a sun? You can't suddenly increase mass with out adding more material! And conversely you cannot loose mass without loosing material.

Oh and I'm pretty sure that if all the forces in the solar system were to reach equilibrium everything would be stationary and in one big lump! We are not in a state of equilibrium, although everything is constantly trying to reach that end (in classical physics) we wont get there for billions of years... Read up a little on your thermodynamics.

[edit on 15/2/2009 by Now_Then]

Originally posted by Thill
Well March is in 2 weeks so I guess we wont have to wait long to see if the theory was right or not ;]

Arent we supposed to see 'planet x' in the same period? in june or something?? I have had the same thoughts my self, since jupiter have 4 moons right, it would very well make a nice 'Burning Cross' in the sky wouldnt it now ??

reply to post by questioningall

While Jupiter is mostly hydrogen, it's the wrong kind. Remember isotopes; atoms with different number of neutrons? Hydrogen has them too. A hydrogen nucleus at its simplest is just a lone proton. Deuterium (D2) is hydrogen with a neutron and a proton, and tritium (T3) is a proton with two neutrons. Fusion bombs need the neutron-added isotopes. Regular old hydrogen won't do it. Simply taking a sample of hydrogen gas and compressing it won't make it fuse; you need a fuel enriched with D2 and T3. Finding these materials isn't all that easy, and a randomly selected pocket of Jupiter's gas is unlikely in the extreme to have them in sufficient quantities to explode

www.badastronomy.com...




good read

[edit on 2/15/2009 by altered_states]

Originally posted by Now_Then
reply to post by theresult

 

OK... Why would Jupiter's mass change just because it became a sun?

You can't suddenly increase mass with out adding more material!

And conversely you cannot loose mass without loosing material.

Oh and I'm pretty sure that if all the forces in the solar system were to reach equilibrium everything would be stationary and in one big lump! We are not in a state of equilibrium, although everything is constantly trying to reach that end (in classical physics) we wont get there for billions of years... Read up a little on your thermodynamics.

[edit on 15/2/2009 by Now_Then]

er.. yeh don't you think it would loose gravitational pull because of loosing mass? because if it's burning.. that fusion is creating energy from the matter it was made of..

-

Click here for more information.

reply to post by prevenge


Okay, I have been looking into this "lucifer project" you mentioned.

I watched a vid and have been reading about it.................

So, if I have grasped what they are saying............

Saturn or Juipter could become a star - if enough explosive material ignited the gases of the planets - am I reading this right so far?

So the ONLY REASON WHY they would do this...... is to play God?

Okay, so these sites are saying billions and billions of dollars would go into trying to ignite one of those planets to be "God Like" in their own eyes?

Wow, NOW THAT IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY!

Cassini is carrying 1.5 times the amount of plutonium dioxide (72 lbs) that Galileo was carrying (48 lbs) and Saturn's mass is 30% of Jupiter's mass. 48 is to 3.333 as 72 is to 1 translates into around 5 times the effective plutonium when the planet's masses are figured in.

The plutonium pellets aboard are protected against unexpected pressures (not Saturn's atmospheric pressures though). The upper crust of Saturn's atmosphere is gaseous hydrogen and helium for about 500 miles in, followed by a more liquid substance of the two, and much further in (about half the radius), a more metallic version (so it is guessed). Cassini would go from 1/2 bar to 5 bars in just a few seconds upon entry into Saturn and then explode and burn up at which point its RTG's, containing the Pu cylinders, will continue on. Eventually the RTG casings will deteriorate but the plutonium pellets will continue on, each having their own little heat shield of iridium and graphite, and start dramatically slowing down as the higher density atmosphere is encountered. It may take several days for the pellets to reach the point at which they implode. All that is required for fission from implosion to occur is for the final collapse of one of the graphite/iridium shells around one plutonium capsule to happen suddenly enough to prevent a fizzle, (a fizzle is a reaction that turns it into a dud). Since there are 216 separate cylinders, there are many chances to achieve a proper implosion and if one proper implosion occurs, it will act as a catalyst for others by showering them with neutrons as all of the cylinders will likely stay within 10's of miles of each other. Each cylinder by itself will eventually reach the pressure point within Saturn to go critical if they are not spoiled somehow by then. The fuel cylinders would travel deep into Saturn, much more than the rest of the craft because they are designed to withstand extremely intense heat and pressure. They were designed this way in order to keep them intact in case of an accident upon launch and subsequent earth-atmosphere re-entry (also Cassini did a couple of Earth swing-bys for acceleration).


Some members of the various agencies involved with Galileo and Cassini surely have considered the potential of a plutonium ignition and there is also evidence to suggest that a reaction is what is secretly hoped for, at least by a few. It was stated by William Cooper, (former United States Naval Intelligence briefing member in the early 70's) that an elite group known as the “JASON Group”, or certain members of, had been hired full time to work on turning Jupiter into a small star. The “JASON Group” is comprised of the greatest science minds in the world.14 The Richard L. Garwin reports mentioned earlier further prove that the JASON Group does indeed exist.

In summary, most of the cylinders will survive the initial impact with Saturn's upper atmosphere, because they are designed to do that, they have been successfully tested at an impact pressure of 19,600 PSI and higher than that for non-impact pressure.16 Each cylinder has a heat shield that can withstand temperatures in excess of 6400° F. The notion that Pu-238 cannot be fissile is very much in error, at least when talking about Saturn/Jupiter conditions. I will use Jacco van der Worp's analysis and also remind the reader of the declassified 1962 test mentioned earlier. Pu-238 has a normalized reactivity of 1.1 and a spontaneous fission rate of 3440 neutrons per gram per second. This results in critical mass under normal conditions at 200 grams (this is why the cylinders are kept at 151 grams or 1/3 lb to avoid critical in Cassini). The cylinders will keep falling and may wander apart or stay together when the craft burns up - it doesn't matter much because each cylinder will eventually reach critical on its own when the pressure builds enough in the fall into Saturn. Even if the cylinders wander apart, each one that is still intact will be ignited by a shower of neutrons from any cylinder that ignites. Around ¼ of the plutonium may fission because the surrounding Saturn pressure will maximize the results. With 72 lbs (32.7 kg) of plutonium this is equivalent to a 600 kiloton explosion. In comparison, the Nagasaki explosion used 7 kilograms, 1.2kg of which went into fission and caused a 22 kiloton explosion. This Saturn explosion would create temperatures of around 100,000,000° K because of the high density at the point of detonation. Even the sun's interior is not that hot (only 30,000,000° K). This is way above the threshold for fusion to start. Saturn is similar in content to the sun and the same ingredients can produce the same result: ignition of the entire body of dense hydrogen.

all above from site: www.rinf.com...

Now, I am grasping that Jupiter is made of gases.......

But the whole ignition thing, is based on a "conspiracy" and not actual "natural" occurance. Do I have this "whole" concept correct now?

reply to post by prevenge


hi,
i think this is a great thread,like you i have read the theory about jupiter igniting ,cannot remember where i read it ,but it was connected with the new world order and their getting one of the moons inhabitable by igniting jupiter.
found the item interesting even if is impossible(or is it ?)

Originally posted by theresult
or are you going to argue AGAIN about this??

Nope... bored now, You've amused many readers I would think! I wont let you embarrass your self more than absolutely necessary

Originally posted by theresult
just for the record DO YOU THINK ITS HAPPEND OR WILL HAPPEN?

If you read my first couple of posts you would of seen my disclaimers. I am playing devils advocate for the sake of discussion. I think it's fair to consider Jupiter as a failed star in the sense that it never gained enough of the good stuff back when the solar system was dividing up all the available material. But I'm not saying it's impossible, just stupendously unlikely. Much of what we understand as 'planetary science' is still conjecture - so who knows?