Someone Please Explain To Me - The Theory that Jupiter Ignited - while behind the Sun right now

reply to post by el_bloom


I was wrong I stand corrected.

It is in fact Venus. I had made the assumption that the Stereo Imaging was done from "near" earth. I didn't realize or know that the satellites were at such distances away from earth. Proof positive that you should never "assume".

That is part of the reason it did not make sense to me that it was Venus because of the position of earth in relation to Venus and the imaging satellites.

Here is the positions of the satellites.
stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov...

It is Venus and the small object appears to be mercury.

So I apologize for leading some astray, much to the frustration of some.

Originally posted by griffinrl
I didn't realize you were scientifically trained. In what area?

Molecular Biology. I've also been accepted into a PhD program for Neurology that will probably never get off the ground, but that's a long and unrelated story. I also took every class in astronomy that I could fit into my schedule, even though it wasn't my field of study, much to the consternation of my counselors. For a while I was the only molecular biology student trained and authorized to operate the observatory on campus, until a friend there switched degrees into my field.

I always appreciate your comments and input my friend

Likewise

[edit on 17-2-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


Heck I wanted a new scope for Valentine's Day but all my sweetie got me was this:

reply to post by InfaRedMan

Go to Sky & Telescope online www.skyandtelescope.com... and register for their weekly updates (free). You can also try Heavens Above www.heavens-above.com... for excellent viewing information keyed to your specific location. My coordinates are down to the arc second, which is basically my own back yard. It's not hard to do.

I certainly trust NGCs recommendations, but you can browse many brand with Sky and Telescope, too.

Good luck. You will be hooked. I started with a simple Meade about 45 years ago that sells for less than $2,000 today. Celestron is also an excellent brand. I've got one of each.

If it doesn't rain here tonight, I'll try tomorrow for a picture too.

jw

Originally posted by newage2012how many scientists are here right now? Hmm, I don't see any hands. Lovely.

Guess you didn't see mine either.

Jupiter will not and did not "ignite." Especially since there's no oxygen to support fire.

So could it happen? Sure there's a possibility. Is it likely it's just another fear mongering end of the world claim? I guess we will find out in two weeks.

Nope, not possible. Not even attain fusion. It is impossible.

jw

reply to post by theresult


Ok first off. Saturn is a Gas Giant, Jupiter is a Gas giant. The main differences between those planets and our Sun is that those planets have less mass and they failed to reach critical mass start a fusion chain reaction.

The premise espoused is that the government lunched a sattelite with a LARGE payload of 238 PU into Saturn and or Jupiter and upon compression of the 238pu or a small quantity of 239pu which can happen when 238pu sits for long periods of time caused a fission reaction which generated enough heat to cause the hydrogen and helium in one or the other of the gas giants to fuse and cause a thermonuclear reaction which in turn ignited the whole planet.

It is not as far fetched as might be originally thought and to call it ridiculous is he meanderings of a fool. It is plausible if a fissile reaction generated enough heat that it caused a fusion chain reaction that could cause the planet to ignite into a small star.

The only thing that is implausible is that it happened naturally as there was not enough mass on either Jupiter or Saturn to compress the gases to achieve critical mass. There is NOTHING implausible about a non natural event such as fissible material generating enough heat to cause a thermonuclear fusion reaction that would be self generating with the amount of helium and hydrogen on either gas giant Jupiter or Saturn.

Jaden

Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by newage2012how many scientists are here right now? Hmm, I don't see any hands. Lovely.

Guess you didn't see mine either.

Jupiter will not and did not "ignite." Especially since there's no oxygen to support fire.

So could it happen? Sure there's a possibility. Is it likely it's just another fear mongering end of the world claim? I guess we will find out in two weeks.

Nope, not possible. Not even attain fusion. It is impossible.

jw

You don't need Oxygen to start a nuclear chain reaction LOL.....

You only need enough heat to cause a thermonuclear chain reaction.

A fission reaction could generate enough heat to start a thermonuclear fusion chain reaction between hydrogen and helium, hence the hydrogen bomb.....

Jaden

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by newage2012
My second point is, how many scientists are here right now? Hmm, I don't see any hands. Lovely. So now NOBODY should be saying jack # is for sure or not.

Actually, I am. Had you waited for an answer you might have been surprised by the result.

Literally, tomorrow some average joe could stumble across something that would change ALL of our thinking.

No offense, but ATS is filled with "average joes" who think they've found something that should "change ALL of our thinking." It's that mentality that lead to John Lenard Walson's meteoric popularity. That's not to say that the average joe is incapable of stumbling across the incredible, it's to say that it doesn't override the importance of scientific training and education - it's a lot more than "just theories." 9 times out of 10 when average joe thinks he's found the incredible, its because of a fundamental misunderstanding or ignorance of science. Incredible discoveries are usually made by becoming more skeptical, not less.

So could it happen? Sure there's a possibility.

There's just as much of a possibility that earth will spontaneously start a sustained fusion reaction in 5 seconds. In order for that to occur, just about every observation and equation with regards to nuclear fusion over the last century would have to be wrong.

Is it likely it's just another fear mongering end of the world claim? I guess we will find out in two weeks.

No, we'll find out tomorrow morning, provided the weather is good. Of course, I already posted photo evidence acquired by others, but I guess wide field images aren't good enough for you?

[edit on 17-2-2009 by ngchunter]

You should really study a little more history and less science, almost EVERY single significant leap in science was contrary to the scientific paradigm of the time.

You're a complete fool if you rely on your educ.... I mean indoctrination to decide what is real and what is not. i have two degrees and am working on a third. It means nothing. It means I was able to read some books and spout off the rhetoric that the teachers I have had wanted to hear.

The more I learn of the reality behind modern science the less enamored I am with man's supposed greatness.....

Jaden

Jupiter has indeed ignited into a secon sun, it is behind the sun right now, and this is no theory, just because the media isn't saying anything doesn't mean that it didn't happen, media is owned by the "dark", they only tell us things they want us to know, Jupiter was ignited by the galactic federation of light, they have been here for millions of years they are of light and love there is no fear needed for this situation is guided by Christ Michael (Jesus). Many do not believe , but that is because of the mind conditioning and mass control the gov't and illumaniti has set into place, I AM not crazy and niether are all ofus lightworkers, we bring the truth . A second sun is needed to sustain the energy of the 4th and 5th dimension, which we will be in soon (5th). All inhabitable planets that are in the 5th and above dimensions have 2 or more suns. The extra energy we will be recieving from jupiter will help in the process of us becoming more awakened, meaning fully conscious beings. We are evolving, mother earth and us. Just look inside for the truth it is always inside ourselves rather than outside. Just listen to the nudges from your higher self they will never guide you in the wrong direction. Everything is i divine order, we have some spectular times ahead. All that was prophesized about many years ago is all coming into fruitation. Not the fear based prophesies, Heaven on Earth is fast approaching. The Ageof Aquarius is upon us know, Peace and Love 24/7, those who don't believe, you will soon.

Hope this helps, abundanthope.net is an excellent resource if you wuld like anymore info on this subject

Love and Much light to you
IndigoGirl11

Originally posted by Masterjaden
upon compression of the 238pu or a small quantity of 239pu which can happen when 238pu sits for long periods of time

The plutonium 238 that was on galileo is doing no sitting. It has been sheered to microscopic pieces by Jupiter's atmosphere. There's no additional pu238 nearby for any bit of it to be compressed against.

caused a fission reaction which generated enough heat to cause the hydrogen and helium in one or the other of the gas giants to fuse and cause a thermonuclear reaction which in turn ignited the whole planet.

Even if the pu238 on galileo somehow magically came together, formed pu239, reached critical mass, and started a fission reaction it would not generate near enough heat to cause a runaway thermonuclear reaction. Just how do you think a few pounds of plutonium will stack up against all the indigenous heat and pressure at the core of a gas giant anyway? It'd be like a drop of rain in an ocean, an ocean not big enough to start fusion.

By the way, just how much heat do you think was generated by the impact of shoemaker levy 9's impact, and how do you think that would compare to a few pounds of plutonium 239 (which it isn't even) going off?

If something as small as a nuclear explosion could magically cause the hydrogen in jupiter to compress to the point of sustaining a fusion reaction, why didn't shoemaker levy 9 cause an instant runaway fusion reaction when it hit? Of course the real reason is that in order to start a fusion reaction you must carefully cause a massive explosion to completely encase a controlled amount of hydrogen - that means you'd have to encase the entire planet, there's not enough fissible material on our entire planet for that. That's how hydrogen bombs work, they don't work by randomly exploding plutonium to one side, nor do they use an infintesimal mass of fissile material compared to the amount of hydrogen.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by Masterjaden
You should really study a little more history and less science, almost EVERY single significant leap in science was contrary to the scientific paradigm of the time.

You should study a little more science, maybe then you'd have a decent understanding of how hydrogen bombs actually work. You might also know the truth about leaps in science - they aren't made by wild assumptions made from ignorance. They're generally made by taking what is known and applying more critical and skeptical thinking to the mystery at hand. For instance, in the Geiger-Rutherford experiment, it was assumed that atoms were pudding balls of subatomic particles. At first, no one bothered to check to see if the missing percent of alpha particles were being reflected back at the emitter. It was a new-comer who decided to check to see if they were bouncing - he applied skeptical and critical thinking to the problem rather than make wild assumptions, such as if he had assumed that the alpha particles were somehow being absorbed by the atomic "pudding." I see no critical thinking in the assumption that throwing plutonium 238 into Jupiter will magically cause it to start fusing, especially after years of observations following galileo have proven otherwise.

You're a complete fool if you rely on your educ.... I mean indoctrination to decide what is real and what is not.

If you're unwilling to accept even the most basic tenants of science, which have years upon years of consistent and solid observations to back them up, then you're not going to make it anywhere in the field of science. I sincerely hope your degrees are in something else.

The more I learn of the reality behind modern science the less enamored I am with man's supposed greatness.....

For me science has never been about man's greatness, it's about the wonder of discovering the way the universe works. By your thinking, sharing any such discovery is impossible because it would simply be "indoctrination." That, to me, is a profoundly sad state of mind.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by ngchunter]

What with all this talk of "Gas Giants" and "Dittoheads" (whatever that is?) I could not help myself.

An Artists interpretation of NASA's New Horizons approaching the "Gas Giant" Jupiter in it's recent flyby.




Perhaps I've misunderstood the words "Gas Giant"?

Edited to say: Yes, I have entirely too much time on my hands today.

[edit on 2/17/2009 by Blaine91555]

reply to post by Blaine91555


Not to worry Blaine....I think a covert payload of Beano is on that probe

I see this thread is well and truly derailed.. What are we talking about now.. One thing it is not is Someone Please Explain To Me - The Theory that Jupiter Ignited - while behind the Sun right now.. If I wanted to hear about telescopes I would find a thread on the subject.. If I wanted to listen to a bunch of nerds exchange credentials with each other same as above.. Nuclear bombs I am also sure there will be a thread somewhere on that subject too.. I haven't heard one decent explanation from all the so called scientists so far..

I for one do not believe for one minute that jupiter ignited but yet there are a few interesting frames in the sequences I have seen appart from the flare from the sun.. For anyone who has actually bothered to watch there is what appears to be a flare coming from the right of the picture and which intersects with the flare from the sun.. Comon scientists care to try explain now that we can be certain Jupiter did not ignite..

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by daz__
funny I seem to remember that not long after Galileo plunged into Jupiter that a large black spot appeared not far from the red spot.. correct me if I am wrong..

What does that have to do with the galileo probe, exactly? Galileo plunged into jupiter within a degree of the equator, nowhere near the dark storm seen later at 10 degrees north latitude.
www.jpl.nasa.gov...

In fact, such storms are a common occurance on Jupiter. Galileo itself photographed them before its mission ended:
ciclops.org...

And what has the information from the link you provided got to do with the position of the dark cloud mass at 10 degrees north.. Where are the telescopic images.. Is there an independant source other than nasa which could comfirm this.. The document you linked seem to me to be an overview of the Galileo mission.. I see nothing there remotely related to the probe or the storm.. In fact you say Galileo went down at 1 degree from the equator and later the storm was seen at 10 degrees north.. Where I come from things like storms and weather systems move around.. Maybe the weather systems where you come from dont who am I to say.. I'm no expert just a lay person making some observations here but I would have Imagined the physics of storms on jupiter would be pretty much like here on earth only on a much bigger scale.. perhaps you also have a phd on the science of storms on Jupiter..

I do of coarse know there are lots of dark spots on Jupiter and I did read the article Richard Hogeland wrote on the subject of the probe and storm; and I can't say I understood everything he was on about as a lot of his analysis on different subjects goes right over my head but I can respect some one who makes an effort to explain himself. has his own theories and just doesn't just say stuff like No, It Cant Happen, Wont Happen, Never Will Happen, Move On Now Nothing To See Here..

peace

daz__

syntax err edit

[edit on 17/2/2009 by daz__]

It's a freakin' storm.

reply to post by daz__


Thank you for your input - to bring the thread back to the conversation - and debate about what the sequence was, that was on behind H1.

Originally posted by daz__
Nuclear bombs I am also sure there will be a thread somewhere on that subject too..

Look daz, nuclear bombs have to do with whether or not plutonium ignited jupiter or not, that's why i brought it up. If you're looking for an explanation it's right there.

And what has the information from the link you provided got to do with the position of the dark cloud mass at 10 degrees north.. Where are the telescopic images.. Is there an independant source other than nasa which could comfirm this..

Could you be more specific? I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're asking for here. Are you looking for images of dark spots on Jupiter other than NASA?

The document you linked seem to me to be an overview of the Galileo mission.. I see nothing there remotely related to the probe or the storm..

There's pictures there of a dark storm taken by galileo even darker than the one that showed up AFTER galileo ended, proving such phenomenon are common.

In fact you say Galileo went down at 1 degree from the equator and later the storm was seen at 10 degrees north.. Where I come from things like storms and weather systems move around.. Maybe the weather systems where you come from dont who am I to say..

You come from earth and so do I. On jupiter, clouds and storm systems are always confined to their particular cloud band, and therefore, latitude. They constantly move in opposite directions in longitude, but remain in the same latitude belt.

I'm no expert just a lay person making some observations here but I would have Imagined the physics of storms on jupiter would be pretty much like here on earth only on a much bigger scale..

Unfortunately, that is where you went wrong.




[edit on 17-2-2009 by ngchunter]

Since NASA and it's probe data is obviously suspect can somebody please post some photos, video and data from a privately launched spacecraft? Surely Hoagland has launched a few, right? I mean he obviously has all the correct data so he must have independent sources or his own spacecraft.

reply to post by ngchunter

and you l00k to NGC..

If this were a thread about Galileo exploding Jupiter I would spend time with you talking about these cloud band and their position in relation to latitude on the planet/sun Jupiter but what is of more interest now
to me is why you consistantly direct this thread in the direction of this Galileo Jupiter Ignition..

I'll put it this way.. You were very quick to sift through my responses to you in your usual dialogue fashion but what interests me are the bits you omitted from your responses.. After my plea to keep this threads focus on the sequence of pictures posted by the OP you totally omitted any reference to my question about the flare anomaly and kept picking on these cloud bands and the pictures of these dark storms that are even bigger. Why are you rabbiting on about these storms that have nothing to do with the actual storm that was in question in the first place..

So again.. Now that we can be sure that Jupiter did not ignite perhaps we could try to put some light on some of the strange things that can be seen on the sequence of pictures.. As I mentioned in an earlier post about the pincer type claws which emerge from the planet and grew larger and larger over the course of a few hours.. ?? sorry about the description.. It was the way I saw it.. And also did anyone else notice the flare from the planet on the right which intersected with the flare from the sun..

Surly we can get away from this Jupiter thing as the identity of the offending planet is either Mercury or Venus as was pointed out by a few posters.. And if I understood right Mercury was in retrograde which could account for some of the over exposed areas..

peace

daz__

Originally posted by Masterjaden

The premise espoused is that the government lunched(sic) a sattelite(sic) with a LARGE payload of ... PU into Saturn and or Jupiter and upon compression ... a fission reaction which generated enough heat to cause the hydrogen and helium in one or the other of the gas giants to fuse and cause a thermonuclear reaction which in turn ignited the whole planet.

False premise. You have no understandig of fission or fusion or any concept of the size and mass of either planet or you would recognize that it is not even remotely possible. You are just wrong. Study Tokamak and ITER.

It Is Ridiculous.

It is not as far fetched as might be originally thought and to call it ridiculous is(sic) he(sic) meanderings of a fool.

Such "meanderings" are laughably foolish.

There is NOTHING implausible about a non natural event such as fissible(sic) material generating enough heat to cause a thermonuclear fusion reaction that would be self generating with the amount of helium and hydrogen on either gas giant Jupiter or Saturn.

See above. Just because you can think it and say it does not make it real.

Deny Ignorance.

jw