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The military and government

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posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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I have been reading a lot on ATS about the possibility of a civil war or revolution based on the economic collapse. Some of these posts have mentioned the government using martial law in the future. I don't believe this is something that could happen; I think the vast majority of servicemen and women would not draw arms against the people.

I am a military officer; I've also served as an enlisted member in two services. I understand the power of my oath... I understand the responsibility of my oath... I understand and take it humbly. It's an enormous obligation.

I recently sent the below message to some 'representatives', as well as some news media outlets. I want them to know that they are being watched; that there are people who actually take their oath seriously...

Here is my message.


As I am sure many of you know, military officers make an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Our official oath of commissioning reads:

“….that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic…”

The oath we take is to the Constitution; it is not to the Republican Party, it is not to the Democratic Party, it is not to our superiors, our military units, or even the President.

We are to guard the Constitution.

Every officer has the responsibility of viewing their actions and orders in light of the Constitution. It is a very humbling duty. With it comes an innate responsibility to lead with character and to put your service above your own self interests.

Military officers put aside their own liberties, rights, and personal views, willingly sacrificing them for the greater good, and to the service of the nation.

It seems to me that some of our political representatives, whom take the same exact oath as military officers, should put aside their personal views and service to their political party in order to serve the people.

Last time I checked, there was no mention of a political party in the Constitution, but there was a great deal mentioned about serving the “People”.


Just wanted you guys to know that there are leaders in the military who still hold to their oaths and understand it is not the President or Congress that we serve, but the People.

I also teach this philosophy to up and coming officers. I ensure that they fully grasp this concept and duty, and if not, ensure they don't commission.




posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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You're are how a hero is defined.

This is all I wanted to see from members of the military. I'd like to see it followed up by actions in the near future that show that the military would refuse martial law. And that you would come to bat for us should the government get out of hand.

Thank you.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 08:48 PM
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Thanks for your service to the country. It is good to know there are people like you serving to protect our nation and what America stands for.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn

I'd like to see it followed up by actions in the near future that show that the military would refuse martial law. And that you would come to bat for us should the government get out of hand.


It is a touchy subject... that of speaking out. It's even in the Uniform Code of Military Justice...



Article 88

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”


You can find more info here: Article 88

Know that we're here and we're ready to act (on behalf of the Constitution and the People), should the need arise. Again, I think those in the military are not the zombies many Hollywood movies portray them to be.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by AF4Liberty
 


I'm glad that you meant it when you swore your oath to the constitution.

Here is the problem. When they declare martial law it is not people like you that they will use for things like, cerfew enforcement, gun confiscation, and roadblocks. You will be on the other side of the planet fighting terrorists.

They will use:
-Blackwater or now called Xe.
-Other "contractors" like KBR, Wackenhut, Falcon.
-The 27% of active duty military personnel that are foreign nationals.
-U.N. peackeeping forces.


Look at the Katrina disaster, it was a test bed for this type of activity.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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So, an interesting observation is that the officers take an oath to defend the constitution, and enlisted take a different oath to defend the constitution and obey the President.

www.history.army.mil...
Officer:

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
Enlisted:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


When I was enlisted, I was a member of a doomsday unit. One which restored national communications in the event of a disaster. We were cautioned that if our unit was to defend ourselves, we would not be firing upon foreign soldiers, but on organized civilians intent on obtaining our supplies or intent on overthrowing the government.

I didn't like that.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Dbriefed
So, an interesting observation is that the officers take an oath to defend the constitution, and enlisted take a different oath to defend the constitution and obey the President.


Yes, it is very interesting that they are the only civil servant that swears to obey anyone else...



"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).


We actually just spoke of this very thing the past week at work (me and two NCO's. Their oath is not only to obey the President, but also the officer's appointed over them. This is input in the oath in order to form the chain of command. The President is mentioned because he is the CINC, and whereby officer's receive their authority.

Enlisted will obey officer's (just based on personal allegiance alone) long before they will obey the President. And even at that, it is still only LAWFUL orders they are required to obey. It is the officer's job to ensure that he or she explains how an order going against the President, is in truth, a LAWFUL order because it is in support of both their primary objectives, 'to support and defend the Constitution'.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by downtown436
reply to post by AF4Liberty
 


I'm glad that you meant it when you swore your oath to the constitution.

Here is the problem. When they declare martial law it is not people like you that they will use for things like, cerfew enforcement, gun confiscation, and roadblocks. You will be on the other side of the planet fighting terrorists.

They will use:
-Blackwater or now called Xe.
-Other "contractors" like KBR, Wackenhut, Falcon.
-The 27% of active duty military personnel that are foreign nationals.
-U.N. peackeeping forces.

Look at the Katrina disaster, it was a test bed for this type of activity.


You realize that we could be in Iraq or anywhere else, and in 1 day, be back in the U.S.? I guarantee that if 'martial law' were to be declared and the Government started using contractors to kill civilians, the military would leave their posts, wherever they were, and be back in the U.S. within days.

Again, we fly the planes and drive the boats...

And we are better equipped and better trained than any current civilian organization. Note the term 'current'.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by AF4Liberty
 



First "Sir" I want to say "Thank You" - S & F

I find it interesting that the Officers take one oath and the enlisted take another.....

So now with that................ I have a few questions..................
I am not named "questioningall" for nothing! LOL

Okay....... so first question

Does the people in the military also talk about the possiblity of martial law being declared?

Has there ever been "rumours" of it?

Though the Officers take one oath, and the enlisted another - which includes obeying the President..........

then aren't the enlisted people - "bound" to obey martial law rules?

Aren't there some hardened military folks, who are a little off edge, now that they have been in Iraq for so long... that they would not have a problem enforcing martial law against the civilans of the U.S.?


That is all my questions for now...... Thank you again!



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by questioningall
reply to post by AF4Liberty
 


First "Sir" I want to say "Thank You" - S & F


You're welcome. It is an honor, and a duty I take seriously.


Okay....... so first question

Does the people in the military also talk about the possibility of martial law being declared?

Has there ever been "rumors" of it?


Yes, it's been mentioned before. I remember talking about it when I was an enlisted Marine. Most of the talk revolved on how we would never shoot civilians (unless of course, they were shooting at us).

Not once has there ever been rumor of it.



Though the Officers take one oath, and the enlisted another - which includes obeying the President..........

then aren't the enlisted people - "bound" to obey martial law rules?


No.... again, the President is mentioned because the office of President is where military officer's derive their authority, which is found in the Constitution. If you notice, the rest of the enlisted oath says 'according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

The UCMJ has articles that make it punishable to disobey LAWFUL orders from superior commissioned officer's. There is nothing (that I can currently think of) that states they are punished if they disobey the President.

They follow the officer's presiding over them, and then, only if those officer's issue LAWFUL commands. It is an officer's job to ensure orders from the President, Congress, and whomever else, is LAWFUL based on the Constitution.



Aren't there some hardened military folks, who are a little off edge, now that they have been in Iraq for so long... that they would not have a problem enforcing martial law against the civilians of the U.S.?


People can become a little 'crazy' from being in war. I was in Iraq last year at this time, and during my time there suffered through 120+ rocket and mortar attacks (I was in mortaritaville, aka Balad).

However, those are rarities, and even with that, I don't see that leading to a desire to harm Americans.

Hope this helped.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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Thank you for this thread AF4Liberty! It is good to know where people like you stand.

I really appreciate your point you make about the politicians not following their oath when you do.

Welcome to the new Fascism in the US. D.C. upholds the law of increased profit margins for the corporations. With the exception of a very few, the 'representatives' of the people have sold us out long ago.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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Ijust have one question for the OP. What is your rank ?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 03:35 PM
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I don't think this is an oath issue. It's a human nature issue. When the cookie crumbles I really don't think that the army would turn against its fellow man.

I have friends in the army in Australia. The are dedicated people. But there is no way in hell they would turn against their mates and fight for a government. No way at all.

Well, i certainly hope I'm right. If I'm wrong the world is a very sad place indeed.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Common Good
Ijust have one question for the OP. What is your rank ?


Captain.

Was a Corporal in the Marines, a SSgt in the Air Force, and now I'm sitting at Captain.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:38 PM
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Semper Fi.
errr.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:22 PM
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There are a great number of threads on ATS from the past years, which discuss this. I've said the same thing over those years as well. Never changing positions and always assuring the people, that those of us in the military, will as a majority hold true to the oaths. Which have been reaffirmed multiple times.

Every time I restated the oath, it only burned that much hotter.

I've used the term before, and I will use it again and again. If the government ever declared martial law, and the people were threatened. Civil law would be declared by many people. I'm from Michigan, know many interesting folks up here, and am a combat arms Iraq vet.

I talk to and have spoken with many of the guys in my unit (& others), NCOs to Commissioned and none would violate their oaths. 9/11 was mentioned, and a surprising number actually find the conspiracy angle more likely than the story.

People should never worry about the US military turning on them, never.
We have families and friends, we think and act on our own. Some of us do what our rank can afford, and don't always follow the rules. But morally, service men and woman are the finest selection. How many people actually enlist, and make the difference or at least try.

Exactly, not many of us, and if you ask families and friends, teachers and those who know us. There is no better human to have in that place.

Many have gone over seas, and all gave some, and some gave all. Gave for a people we never met, and risked our lives for their country for their freedom.

If we are willing to do that for them, imagine what we will do for our own.

I swear and promise by all that is holy under God, upon my word as a professional soldier, a friend and brother. That if the USofA ever falls under national martial law, that I will take direct action to preserve, protect and safe guard the United States of America, the Constitution and it's people, against all threats.

Trust me, multitudes of others will be behind me.

Tous Pour Un Un Pour Tous

Sabers never quit!

United We Stand, The Rest Is, Not an Option!



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by AF4Liberty
I have been reading a lot on ATS about the possibility of a civil war or revolution based on the economic collapse. Some of these posts have mentioned the government using martial law in the future. I don't believe this is something that could happen; I think the vast majority of servicemen and women would not draw arms against the people.


You don't think Martial Law is possible?





You don't know what is headed our way besides a Hurricane.

Earthquakes?
Nuclear Weapons?
Epidemics / Bird Flue?
Biological Attacks?
Violent Revolutions?
Global Depressions with escalated crime?
Food Crisis!!!!

Martial Law is in our future. The only question is when?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 08:53 PM
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Man oh man!

There are times when I submit complaints for duplicate threads, but I swear I could read ten threads like this a day and never get tired of them! I don't think you guys in the military realize how bad many of us need to hear this for reassurance that we are not alone in opposing the evils that face us high in government and high in corporate America. For God's sakes, keep them coming!

But how do you guys feel about things like the secret, illegal torture doctrine that was passed down from high above? How do you reconcile with the very own people in your ranks who have NOT had the personal discernment to avoid such illegal orders and literally KILL people in detention?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by Doomsday 2029
You don't think Martial Law is possible?




If you read my thread, you would know that I don't think it's possible that the military would be behind it.... and when I say 'it', I refer to the martial law that has servicemen and women shooting civilians.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by AF4Liberty]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by Common Good

Semper Fi.
errr.


You know, I've been in the Air Force now for nearly 8 years, but I still refer to the Air Force as "you guys" and consider myself a Marine.

You can put wings on a dog, but never take the devil out of 'em.

OOOHRAH!



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