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Down and Out in NYC, on $500,000 a Year?

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posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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I just couldn't believe what I was reading when I was reading this article that was trying to convey how tough it was going to be for all the "top brass" on Wall Street who were now going to have a $500,000 bonus cap!

Down and Out in NYC on $500,000 a Year


When President Barack Obama last week announced a $500,000 salary cap on pay for top brass at institutions receiving federal bailout funds, a collective shudder went through the corner offices of Manhattan.


OMG!!! Only a potential of a $500,000 BONUS!

They should try living on $21,000 a year, down from $50,000 a few years ago! And with NO BONUSES



You see, an estimated 75,000 New Yorkers earn more than $500,000 a year, according to 2007 data compiled by the Manhattan Institute, an economic think tank.
******SKIP******
In light of the crusade against seven-figure incomes, Crain's conducted a highly unscientific survey of the typical expenses of a Manhattan banking Brahmin to see how far $500,000 would take him or her. While half a million won't punt anyone to skid row, the results were not pretty.


Well, let's take a look at how they MIGHT spend $500,000 a year!



LIFE ON A FERRAGAMO SHOESTRING BUDGET

INCOME: $500,000

TAXES: $201,070
You’re the top—tax bracket, that is. Washington, Albany and City Hall together
gobble up about 40% of your paycheck.

REMAINING: $298,930

HOUSING: $75,000
Figure $4,000 a month maintenance fees for the Park Avenue co-op and $15,000 a year in property taxes for the second home. Garage: $12,000.

REMAINING: $223,930

CHILDREN: $106,275
Includes tuition at Brearley ($33,025) and a year at Harvard ($52,650). Music lessons, sports teams and tutors quickly add up to another $8,000.

REMAINING: $117,655

CHARITIES: $25,000
Civic involvement is typically part of a top executive’s job description. A common charitable benchmark is 5% of your gross income.

REMAINING: $92,655

SOCIAL: $33,000
Harvard Club dues are $2,000 a year per couple, and Westchester County golf clubs typically charge $16,000; food and entertaining tabs are another $15,000.

REMAINING: $59,655

VACATIONS: $36,000
Three weeks at $12K a week for a family of four.

REMAINING: $23,655

FOOD: $15,000
Groceries for four ($10,000 a year), plus meals out (fancy and kidfriendly) two to three times a week.

REMAINING AMOUNT: $8,655

CLOTHING: $16,700
Total includes two new men’s suits per year at $3,000 a pop.

FINAL: $-8,045


Okay, first thing, dump the second home, HEY, look at that! You saved $15,000 a year and are out of the RED already!!

Let's see how else we can help these poor buggers out!

Could always (SHUDDER at the thought!) move out of the apartment on Park Avenue and find a place for $1,000 less a month, BAM, saved another $12,000 a year!

That whole "Childrens" thing for $106,000, maybe they'll just have to go to a cheaper college (the shame, the SHAME)! Cut that bill at least by a third for the schools, that'll save them around $35,000 dollars a year, and tell the brats to study on their own!! Nix that $8,000 tutor bill! Hey, there's another $43,000 just saved!

Tell the "Charities" times are tough now, you can only give 2.5% of your income now, just saved ANOTHER $12,500 a year!!!

As for "Social" keep your memberships, just cut your food and entertaining in half, saved another $7,500!

Oh, and HERE'S one you can REALLY save some money on!!! Cut your budget in half for your vacations!!! You can still have fun, I'm sure of it! I could have a blast on vacation on just $1,000 a week! Saved another $18,000!!!!!

We'll leave the rest alone, we've already put $108,000 in your savings account!

You know what, these 75,000 who earn over $500,000 in New York City are less than 1% of the 8,274,527 people who live in New York City, other people. A LOT of other people can live on less than $500,000 a year, and if you try, you can too!

Hey, times are tough, everybody is having to cut back, and it looks like you are going to have to too!

Sorry, no pity here!!!

Maybe I'll become an accountant!

[edit on 2/14/2009 by Keyhole]




posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Keyhole
 


I actually completely disagree.. capping pay in Capitalism is a Deadly Sin.. you don't dare even utter something so socialist as capping executive pay..

Those at the top of the industry should always make more then those at the bottom, else Capitalism would fail, and even those at the bottom would suffer.

The capping of pay will take untold millions of dollars out of upper consumer spending.. when just last year luxury retail sales plummet 24%, Obama single handedly decided to destroy the Luxury industry. With it countless jobs will be lost, businesses will fold, and small businesses going under.

When ever some lowly Cubicle Jockey bitches about how much his CEO is making and bitches with extreme jealousy and envy that it causes the gorge to rise in my throat, I have simply ask "why aren't you the CEO then?" ..

Bitching and moaning at other peoples success, compared to doing all you can to get to the top of the ladder is the definition of Capitalism.. not so any more.. for Uncle Sam will put a ceiling on how high you can go.

I would not be a CEO of an international multibillion dollar corporation for $500k a year, sorry.

This president of ours continues to disgust me..



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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Ah, but if your company asked the TAXPAYER for a bailout, that means that the CEO was a failure or corrupt, but in no case deserves such a high salary. This isn't for everyone, just the one's who are asking for a bailout.

I'd love to pull in $500,000 for being an abject failure. Great work if you have powerful friends who can get it for you.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 09:12 PM
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I think you all missed the point.

The cap is on the $500,000 BONUS.

A bonus, to me, means anything OVER my current salary.

Are these execs telling us that they can't live on their current salary and completely depend on the Bonus? If so, perhaps they really do need a wakeup call.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 09:28 PM
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Lol when I was very very young now my second job as such, after p/t work when a teenager, doing my "a" levels in college I did a stint one summer holidays working as a waiter.

Lowest wage possible, treated like dirt, supply own clothes, long hard work, un sociable hours.

The owner of this place all big new 7 series BMW etc, fiddling everything on tax etc messed up the wine order for a wedding and A chef rushed out to get a couple of cases, it as said was summer, the white wine was warm by the time he got back, had to open the bottles in less than 2 hours.

This guy who owned it and who had messed up himself in his paperwork by not accounting for the wine needed, shouted at me to put it in the Walk In Freezer to chill it quickly, he watched me do this. He then screamed at me to go and "swear" get those tables ready...

I did and went about my other tasks laying tables and such, when the guests came in he was shouting in the kitchen and came storming out to me shouting demanding I follow him I did back into the kitchen where on the floor of the walk in freezer was a couple of cases of wine, obviously the wine had frozen expanded and all the corks were popped.

The wine was like fountains of frozen water all over the place


He was flipping out blaming me, though he told me and saw me put them in there, I was never told to check them or get them out....

He sacked me and tried to docked the cost from my wages and sent me a bill to for the balance, of over £169.00 back in the late 80's was a lot and I needed that money to eat, rent etc.... my wages owed...

Capitalism eh got to love it,

Fiddle, treat people like salves, Mess up, blame other people and expect them to pay you for your own mistakes.

Elf.

Damn shame about all that nice Sancere being wasted.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


The problem is that you are both right.

$500,000 is a lot of money, but the government should dictate to private industry how to compansate its employees. Many of the CEOs who caused this mess have already been fired, and this cap is for the CEOs trying to fix the mess.

On the other hand, becoming CEO of Citibank or Bank of America is not really based on merit. its based on connections. I bet a monkey could do a better job, but his father didn't go to yale, and his grandpa didn't go to yale etc...



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I actually completely disagree.. capping pay in Capitalism is a Deadly Sin.. you don't dare even utter something so socialist as capping executive pay..



Even when THEY DON'T EARN IT!!!!!

Do YOU REALLY THINK that everybody else in our country should pay THEIR bonuses, when THEIR company, that they were working for, who THEY were SUPPOSE to make money for, end up with a DEFICIT!!!!!

I TOTALLY disagree!!!

[edit on 2/15/2009 by Keyhole]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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MischeviousElf

You had one bad boss... one A-hole .. and your vision of Capitalism shot. I worked some weird jobs.. met some real grade A jerks. I would hazard a more then likely accurate guess that I make more then the vast majority of them now.

You are a shining example of the failure we see in our society.. and don't get me wrong, I admire and respect your opinions and posts..

But you see, you have demonstrated the key problem to our entire system.

One wrong, or a thousand.. just give up. Capitalism failed because the guy who owned a restaurant in the 1980's yelled at you for breaking a few bottles of wine.

Given our current situation .. why the hell should we struggle? We are Westerners, struggling is below us.. Corporations post losses .. so lets have the Government cap their CEO's pay? Corporations are laying workers off.. so lets have the Government hire them and pay them obscene salaries to do nothing? On top of this, let's have the government pay for people to not work through unemployment.. and let's get a tax break while we are at it. Maybe Uncle Sam can send us another check in the mail? Because we are Westerners.. we Euro's and American's .. when our situation does not benefit us, we do an about face and take on another ideology to give us everything for nothing.

If I had a penny for every time I heard of a "Conservative" take on Socialist ideologies simply because he got laid off.. or couldn't afford the newest car..

It's pathetic.

Keyhole:



Even when THEY DON'T EARN IT!!!!!


Who's to decide that? .. you? .. What is your expertise in the Corporate world? .. Is it a crime to have a loss of revenue during a recession? ..

Should we trust the Government to issue "Morality" charges against corporations?



Do YOU REALLY THINK that everybody else in our country should pay THEIR bonuses, when THEIR company, that they were working for, who THEY were SUPPOSE to make money for, end up with a DEFICIT!!!!!


The "Bailout" was a Nationalization process which, while I completely disagree with them just as much as I do capping bonuses .. the US rcvd Senior Preferred Shares .. the most senior in fact .. we are above even the Bond holders.. who must renegotiate and except losses now because of the Nationalization ..

With the Preferred shares the US will receive a 10% earnings off of these shares.. only AIG had a lower return due to restructuring..

And finally.. Keyhole.. if the CEO is .. corrupt .. or how ever else you view them .. it is the Share Holders who hold the right to kick him out of office.. to change leadership. Not the President.

Socialism is the beginning of the end.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Bitching and moaning at other peoples success ....

It's called coveting, and it's a pitiful disgusting display of human behavior, isn't it. Even the (so-called) religious ones are coveting what others have these days, ha. Personally, I think it should be nobody else's concern what another earns and what they have.

Americans have become spoiled rotten. Even the (so-called) poor in this country have no idea what poor actually means ... YET! But, they will learn soon enough.

All this bitching and moaning reminds me of little kids, there are always those that cry and whine if another happens to get a larger piece of pie than them, ha. "Whaaaa, mommy, they have more than me. Whaaaa. I covet what they have. Make them give me some of their pie. Whaaaa."

Crybaby humans, ha. Anyone that blames their financial/economic woes on another is a little cry baby, and there are sure a lot of them in this country now. Whaaaa, cry babies, whaaaaa, Mr. Wall Street has more than you, whaaaaa.

Pitiful, absolutely pitiful. Coveting is a sin, ya'll know that, don't you?



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:58 AM
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The Bonus is now called the RETENTION PAY.

They just changed it before the stimulus bill was passed.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Wait! Have you discovered a new breed of human? Homo Sapiens Westernicus!? When did this happen? We need to re-map the evolutionary chart to make sure regular Homo Sapiens are firmly below our superior race.

Mason: 0 The Dude: 1



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Keyhole
 


I actually completely disagree.. capping pay in Capitalism is a Deadly Sin.. you don't dare even utter something so socialist as capping executive pay.....

Bitching and moaning at other peoples success, compared to doing all you can to get to the top of the ladder is the definition of Capitalism.. not so any more.. for Uncle Sam will put a ceiling on how high you can go.

I would not be a CEO of an international multibillion dollar corporation for $500k a year, sorry.

This president of ours continues to disgust me..


Yes, we all know how successfull these CEO have been. Just look at the results. They have done whatever it has taken to get a huge payout, but look at the consequences of those actions Rock. Unregulated greed, reckless practice, cooking the books, trading debt as assets given AAA ratings by deception......should I keep going.

I'd like to give a few of them a cap, and it is not about their pay.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:41 AM
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Giving CEO's a salary cap is a knee-jerk reaction.

They deserve to be payed fair market value for their services, same as you and I. This is a worrying step toward outright socialism. What if we socialize healthcare and decide to cap doctor pay? The best and the brightest will no longer strive to be doctors, and we will all be stuck with second rate care.

The correct answer here is not to restrict people's potential, but rather to hold those who were cooking the books and jukeing stats accountable. That means let us see the account sheets, since no one believes the government can serve justice unless we are looking over their shoulder.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:08 AM
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LOL first you bitch about people making more money than the "average joe"... realise that these people are exceptional- they are bound to make more than the average joe because they are that much damn better. Nobody stopped the average joe from reaching such heights... he just couldn't because of innate inferiority/ lack of drive. Plenty of rags to riches tales around to prove that mobility exists.

Second, your proposals are to slash their budget on:

1. Your proposal : Downsize properties. Effect : Further destruction in house prices.

2. Your propoal: Fire tutor. Effect : tutor is out of a job. What did the tutor do against you?

3. Your proposal : Give less to charity Effect : Even more people suffer, charities go into the red

4. Your propsal : Quit country clubs Effect : Country club staff get laid off

5. Your proposal : Take less holidays Effect : businesses in tourism-dependent areas suffer and go bust, people working there get laid off.

NOW do you understand trickle down economics? It hasn't failed, its just slowed for the minute because those at the top have been battered more than you can even dream of... any idea what its like to lose $25billion in six months?



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
...capping pay in Capitalism is a Deadly Sin.. you don't dare even utter something so socialist as capping executive pay..

Actually, the CEOs have only themselves to blame. They've milked their companies for all they are worth, and are now reaping the rewards of their greed.


Those at the top of the industry should always make more then those at the bottom, else Capitalism would fail, and even those at the bottom would suffer.

Name me a single person "at the bottom" that makes $500,000 a year.


...When ever some lowly Cubicle Jockey bitches about how much his CEO is making and bitches with extreme jealousy and envy that it causes the gorge to rise in my throat, I have simply ask "why aren't you the CEO then?" ..

Apparently, you aren't aware of the incestous relationship that usually occurs in publicly traded companies. Here's how it works. See Bob? Bob (and his buddies) sit on the board of directors for Company A. See Fred? Fred (and his buddies) sit on the board of directors for Company B. Bob Agrees to hire Fred as CEO for millions and millions and millions. Bob also agrees to hire Fred's buddies too. "What's the catch?" you ask? Well, for Fred to get that job, he has to hire Bob and his buddies at Company B. And, he has to pay him millions and millions and millions.


Bitching and moaning at other peoples success, compared to doing all you can to get to the top of the ladder is the definition of Capitalism.. not so any more.. for Uncle Sam will put a ceiling on how high you can go.

Good. Now the guys at the top are getting to know what it feels like when someone comes along and tells them no. Specifically "No, you can't financially rape this company anymore."


I would not be a CEO of an international multibillion dollar corporation for $500k a year, sorry.

This president of ours continues to disgust me..

You haven't actually worked with many CEOs have you? CEOs in big companies do comparatively little. They most certainly are not worth the millions and millions that they have been receiving for 20 years or so.

One year, Michael Eisner made almost as much in bonuses as Disney PROFITED. That's fair? That's capitalism? Unregulated capitalism ALWAYS degenerates into either near or actual slavery for the "regular" people. Followed quickly by the extermination of the ruling class. History has shown this time and time again.

And remember this: If the greedy SOBs had practiced some restraint, instead of being unnecessarily greedy, no one would be yelling to regulate them, would they? Those executives have only themselves to blame.

Know what? Here's something I would agree to. No caps on bonuses *IF* the following is met:

All upper level management salary and bonuses are decided at the end of the year; however, the board of directors doesn't get to decide. It goes to the shareholders for a vote. It must list the proposed bonus, along with HOW MUCH LESS DIVIDENDS EACH SHAREHOLDER WILL GET IF THE EXECUTIVE IS GIVEN THAT BONUS.

Now that's capitalism I could work with.


Remember, most CEOs with multi, multi million dollar payouts and bonuses "achieved" that money through incestous relationships with other corporations.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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sir_chancealot



Actually, the CEOs have only themselves to blame. They've milked their companies for all they are worth, and are now reaping the rewards of their greed.


So the Government is telling them what greed is and is not?



Name me a single person "at the bottom" that makes $500,000 a year.


Never said they did? .. In fact, it is my point that they do not, and should not?



Apparently, you aren't aware of the incestous relationship that usually occurs in publicly traded companies. Here's how it works. See Bob? Bob (and his buddies) sit on the board of directors for Company A. See Fred? Fred (and his buddies) sit on the board of directors for Company B. Bob Agrees to hire Fred as CEO for millions and millions and millions. Bob also agrees to hire Fred's buddies too. "What's the catch?" you ask? Well, for Fred to get that job, he has to hire Bob and his buddies at Company B. And, he has to pay him millions and millions and millions.


And?



Good. Now the guys at the top are getting to know what it feels like when someone comes along and tells them no. Specifically "No, you can't financially rape this company anymore."


And the Government should do this?



You haven't actually worked with many CEOs have you? CEOs in big companies do comparatively little. They most certainly are not worth the millions and millions that they have been receiving for 20 years or so.


A family member of mine was (retired in Jan) a CEO .. of a major international corporation .. the work he did was, imo, worth every penny and then some. To earn the share holders billions while only taking a few million .. sometimes, imo of course, CEO's can be under paid.

Not every CEO is an evil greedy blood sucker to his or her corporation .. many CEO's are the life blood of their corporation.

It's jealous ignorance like you have expressed which is little more then the envy of money and perhaps a malcontent with ones on standing that brings the hate we see in threads like this.

The US Government as Majority Share Holder can fire the CEO's if they so choose.. putting caps and restrictions in a Free Market goes across the entire spectrum .. and is a highly dangerous practice.



And remember this: If the greedy SOBs had practiced some restraint, instead of being unnecessarily greedy, no one would be yelling to regulate them, would they? Those executives have only themselves to blame.


I completely agree as far as the Banks are concerned.. their greed got the best of them.

In a free market, they would fail.

In a Socialist market they are propped up and the economy is inevitably ruined for it.

Nothing should impede the Free Market.. the Governments actions are, imo, worse then the Banks.. for the banks where just part of a cycle of death and rebirth, where as the Government is an abomination to our system..

Though some like you embrace the Socialist system..



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
NOW do you understand trickle down economics? It hasn't failed, its just slowed for the minute because those at the top have been battered more than you can even dream of... any idea what its like to lose $25billion in six months?



So, I guess we, as taxpayers, should just allow these companies to give their CEO's, or as the article calls them, the "Top Brass", millions in bonuses so they can just keep living the high life and keep paying other people for their exuberant lifestyle to keep the economy strong?

I don't think that they actually add that much to the economy themselves!

By making the slashes I proposed, to 75,000 peoples bonuses, which is LESS than 1% of New York Cities population, will not cause our economy to come crashing down!!!

Actually the sample in the article only showed a deficit of $8,000 at the end of the year, so all the cuts I proposed wouldn't really have to have been made.

This cutting back I proposed wouldn't affect that many peoples paychecks as severe as you try to make out!

Your only talking about 75,000 peoples spending habits in a country with a population of over 300 MILLION people!!!

Trickle down economics?

Well, ...

"Trickle Down" economics was a "Trojan Horse"
Reagan's Trickle-Down Economics Doesn't Work
Busting the Myth: Trickle Down Economics Work
Trickle down doesn't work, but trickle up may...
Trickle down economics fail
Trickle-Down Economics: Four Reasons Why It Just Doesn't Work



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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They should have been fired, not have their pay capped.

Most of the CEO's have since quit, been fired, or retired.. I do not see justification to cap pay.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 
I completely agree with you.   The whole pay cap deal is anti-capitalism and nothing but grist for the class warfare crowd.   Funny that now NYC is short some $4bn in tax revenues due to the bonuses on the street being down so much. 

I've worked in the asset management industry for 25 years, including over 10 years on Wall Street and let me tell you the consequences of this kind of salary cap.

The talented folks are simply going to do one of a few things:

1.  just cut out of the business.   they don't need to work any longer and they can just quit and wait until this socialist nonesense ends. They will take their brains out of the system

2.  they will quit and open up their own shops where they can really make dough, in middle $8 figures if they are good.   A bunch of talented gents are going to get together, pool their assets and start their own firms and get out from under this government bs.

3.  they will jump ship and work for non-US asset management firms.   Same Park Ave. digs, office a block from their old office and work for an asset management firm headquartered out of Dubai, China or England.   This is a particularily good deal for them because they'll get an 8 figure signing bonus.


I'm not saying that some of these dudes were'nt incompetent - some were and they should have been fired and the normal system should have worked itself out, as it would have.

The fact of the matter is that although every human being is of equal value, all occupations are not of equal value. Pissing and moaning because some dude is getting a $10M bonus is immature. This has nothing to do with the American system, or any system. If you don't think Hugo Chavez in his socialist wonderland is paying his top dudes this kind of cash - or paying dudes in capitalist countries this kind of dough you're kidding yourself. These guys get paid a lot of money because they make money for other people. Anyone who thinks thats easy, should throw some cash in the market and see how they do.

All this is going to do is push the best financial minds out of the business or out of US firms and that is, for the most part, not a good thing.



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