Are The Two Witnesses of Rev 11 Here Now?

Uh, people.....

The bible makes it VERY clear that it is two flesh-and-blood MEN who are the witnesses. A beast "makes war" with them, killing them. People around the earth are so happy they are dead, that they start giving gifts to each other. They prevent the bodies from being buried, and are left to rot in the streets. After 3 days, the bodies come back to life, and ascend to heaven. (Most probably, while being broadcast on Fox and CNN).

My two personal favorites for the witnesses are Enoch and Elijah.

before you claim someone is ignorant on a subject you should do some study yourself or you end up making yourself look foolish..

i used to be post trib and think the second coming and the "rapture" were the same thing but up serious study i discovered they are not..

in the hebrew when jesus is talking about the end with his disciples and giving them signs he uses a word which means "taking away"..which is where we get our word rapture..thats what rapture means..the church is not in the first 69 weeks of daniel so why would they be in the 70th..the tribulation is strictly for the jews..to turn them back to god..there is tons of evidence for a pre-trib rapture if you only study instead of jumping to conclusions on your own

if you want to see good work on the subject go to youtube and look up chuck missler on the rapture..

reply to post by VernonBC

---

lol i did the exact same thing..i was like man this is some pretty good studying he has done..then i realized it was all conjecture when he started talking about how he was one of the witnesses..he later claimed one of them was his wife...=/

I agree that the witnesses are probably going to be Enoch and Elijah, simply because neither of them died. [The book, by the way, where it is said that Elijah would come back is Isaiah I pretty sure.]

But, a teach I had in college thought that they were going to be Moses and Elijah. His reasoning being that God took Moses before he died, no one actually saw him die. The last little bit of Deuteronomy was written by Joshua, so it was probably assumed by him that God burried Moses. Although, as I think about it, a hypothesis like that doesn't make sense because, if you believe like I do, the Bible is the inerrant word of God and if Moses didn't actually die and was burried, then the word of God would be wrong. I guess it's not out of the question though that God could rise Moses from the dead.

One reasoning for Moses being one of the witnesses is that, since the purpose of the Tribulation is to shock Jews into trusting Christ, Moses would have more of an effect than Enoch would.

Although, it's not out of the question either that the two witnesses are just two ordinary people who accept Christ during the Tribulation. God isn't limited to only using certain people to perform miracles.

Oh, and to answer the title of the thread, if the witnesses are previous figures from the Bible, no they wouldn't be here now, they seemingly just appear.

If they're two ordinary believers that God chooses, they could be here, if we're close to Daniel's 70th week.

[edit on 2/15/2009 by octotom]

reply to post by octotom

---

yeah i have heard the theory that moses didnt exactly die too..i cant say who the second prophet is but i dont think it will be random people god chooses because they will have supernatural abilities

put like this when you see and hear two people prophecize in jerusalem then you'll know they are here.

The last two witnesses - one has to be from the tribe of Levi and one from the tribe of Judea. God promised David would always have a lamp before him in Jerusalem because of Solomon introducing other gods to the area - ten of the twelve tribes were torn from the kingdom. The Levitical priesthood has always been set aside, special, sacred and revered.

This is why some who practice Judaism believe there will be two Messiah's - a kingly one, and a priestly one and the claims can be somewhat backed up from various texts in the Dead Sea Scrolls. An added "s" to the word Messiah in a place or two has been found but the most problematic one comes from a text known as the Messianic Banquet - where the seating arrangement leads one to believe the Priestly Messiah trumps the Kingly Messiah - when all is said and done.

We have in Rev. 11:11 - the two witnesses are taken up and then John sees people celebrating and giving gifts to each other. In Rev. 11:17 the Seventh Trumpet sounds and loud voices are heard saying "The KINGDOM of the WORLD has become the KINGDOM of our Lord and his Christ."

Paul taught that when everything on earth is put under Jesus' feet - Jesus himself will become subject to God...... could this possibly mean that at that point - the Priesthood would take over? Or could we say when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven - the Priesthood will be bringing up the rear (the train)?

The most well known High Priests from the tribe of Levi are Levi, Aaron and John the Baptist. Jesus said of John, that from Adam until John - there is no one better born of a woman. As Christians we accepted both for what they taught and what they stood for - the truth. Let it always remain in your hearts that we have not only a real King/Priest on our side but a wonderful High Priest as well.

I have no idea about who they are or when they'll come or if they have already been here..... but whoever they are it seems they will be dressed in black since sackcloth is used as describing the sun turning black as sackcloth. It also represents mourning.

reply to post by VernonBC

---

No doubt about it...the Weinland guy and his wife are off base. We will see!

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

---

I don't think John the Baptist was from the tribe of Levi. Jesus and John the Baptist were cousins and Jesus was from the tribe of Judah. Therefore, John would've been from Judah as well.

Jude 1:9 (King James Version)

9Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Pretty hard to have a dispute over a BODY if the person is still alive.

reply to post by sir_chancealot

---

I agree. This is why I don't believe that Moses is still alive and that Enoch is the second witness.

But maybe they were fighting over whose house Moses would sleep over at.

No, I'm positive John is of the tribe of Levi - it is recorded that his Mother Elizabeth is of the Daughters of Aaron (a NT term) or at least we can say he is of the Priestly family of Aaron, through his Mother.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by Myrtales Instinct]

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

---

You were right. His dad, Zechariah, was a levitical priest, which would make him in the tribe of Levi. "Tribalship" passed through the father. But, I am sure that Jesus and John are said to be cousins. So, perhaps Elizabeth was part of Judah, but since she married a Levite, John didn't get Judaen "citizenship".

If Enoch was here you would know by now. Beware self proclaimed prophets.

[edit on 2/24/2009 by CrashGecko]

The idea that the two witnesses are two individuals is not supported by scripture. Please let me explain:

In Revelation 11:3 there is mention of Two Witnesses. Lets take a look at that verse.
************************************************************************************
Revelation 11:3-4
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
************************************************************************************
To people that have been taught about the "7 Year Tribulation", they believe the Two Witnesses are two holy people that will be in the city and will prophesy for 42 months. Please read the rest of this post carefully!

We need to figure out who or what are the Two Witnesses. Revelation 11:4 gives a description of what they are; two olive trees and two candlesticks. Now we need to find, scripturally, what or who the two olive trees and two candlesticks are. In Revelation 1:20 tells us what the candlesticks are; Churches.

Now that we know the Two Witnesses are Churches that are figuratively represented by two candlesticks, we need to find out which Churches the two olive trees are. In the Book of Romans is the answer! Lets look at the two verses.
************************************************************************************
Romans 11:17
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou[the Gentile church], being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
************************************************************************************
Romans 11:24
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree[the Jews]: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
************************************************************************************
Wow! We now know who the two Witnesses are; One olive tree is the "Good Olive Trees" (Jews) and the wild olive tree "Gentile Church".

OK, in Revelation 11:3 we are given a certain amount of time the two witnesses will be allowed to witness to the world. The question here is, when will they start to witness? The answer is in the Book of Luke. Lets examine these verses.
************************************************************************************
Luke 21:32
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
************************************************************************************
The last generation started when Israel won the 6 Day War in 1967. Therefore, the witnesses can not witness for 1260 Years if we are in the last generation. A generation can only be as long as 70 years and no shorter than 40 years according to Psalms 90:10.
************************************************************************************
Psalm 90:10
10The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.
************************************************************************************

continued on next post........

Lets find the time when they started witnessing.
************************************************************************************
Luke 21:24
24And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
************************************************************************************
Well, we know that the time of the Gentiles was fulfilled by Israel becoming a nation in 1948. In Revelation 11:3 the time given to witness is 1260 Days. We make the 1260 Days into years and their is no need to convert the years because we are in the New Testament. Lets take 1948 and subtract 1260 years and see what we get.

(1948 AD) - (1260 Years) = 688 AD
The exact year the "Dome of the Rock" was built!

Wake up people! The two witnesses time has been completed. We are closer to the return of Jesus Christ our Savior than we think.

---

Removed external link.
1h.) Spamming: You will not post identical content, or snippets of identical content, to multiple threads in the discussion forums. You've already posted a link to your blog in multiple threads.

[edit on 25-2-2009 by dbates]

That makes sence. I am not a believer in pre-trib though. Luke 21:12 does not say they will lay hands on you jews and persecute you jews.....
It is speaking to all christians. here is a good site with lots of interesting info, I found it useful.
www.tribwatch.com...

While I agree with the last part of your statement, the former is incorrect.

At what time did the ENTIRE WORLD see two bodies lying in the street of Jerusalem, and then give gifts to each other because they were dead?