Why as harsh as hell?

We all know according to the bible that If you dont belive in God you will spend eternity in hell. Or that and unforgivin sins will land you there?

Why such a harsh punishment? Unless any of you have experienced a really bad psychedellic/hallucinogenic trip that the theory of eternity has loose meaning to you.
I understand If someone warships the devil and spends their life torturing and raping people that they should be severely punished..

But once again, the bible makes it clear that even the smallest unforgivin sin will land you in hell unless you repent before death. It says "eternal seperation from god"

Call me scared.. but I sin on a daily basis and I am scared more than anything imaginable to go to hell for such small sins. Why can't their be a alternative place for those who aren't evil terrible people, yet not perfect? A median if you will?

There's a place called Purgatory for those still redeemable. But with the lineups - you have to wait forever.

Easier solution. Change your religion to one that doesn't have a concept of Heaven and Hell.

They are belief systems not real places.


MF

reply to post by mmiichael


And any other religion is not a belief system?

Call me scared.. but I sin on a daily basis and I am scared more than anything imaginable to go to hell for such small sins.

Don't worry man. It's not going to happen. Superstitions and belief are not the truth. No book or writing should tell one how to live their life, it is something you choose, and you alone. The truth will come from within.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by NordicMan]

reply to post by hardcoremusiclover


Why start a new thread on this? I answered this in the other thread you just started.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 2/14/2009 by Blueracer]

reply to post by Blueracer


Dunno why he did that. Maybe he thought the topic you linked to was actually more hell oriented and was not contemplating on the origin of his own sin.

What is Hell?

the common perception is that hell is a place that people who dont meet up to god's standard go. sometimes this place is depicted as fiery and torturous, some just depict it as dark and cold, symbolizing alienation from god.

this beliefs is completely dependent on the belief of an immortal soul, this concept that when we die, we merely shed the flesh and ascend to a different plane of existence.

by examining the scriptures, i hope to show what the bible really says about death and "hell", and to show just how dangerous belief in "hellfire" really is.

ADAM AND EVE AND WHAT IT MEANS TO DIE

gen 2:[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

several things about this scripture clear up alot of things. first was that adam was formed of the dust, not that god made him a body from the dust. also not that adam became a living soul, not that he was given one.

this tells us that adam did no exist before this moment. in other words this was the definitive first moments of adam. it cannot be said that adam was an angel who was put into a human body. the significance of this will be explained in a moment.

gen 2: [16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: [17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

so god lays down the first command. he also states the consequence of breaking this command which is death. now most people who believe in the whole heaven and hell afterlife model read this scripture and move on. but actually is quite significant.

notice the consequence is death. now if god right from the beginning purposed man to live on earth and then die and then either go to heaven or hell, why would god state death as a consequence? death would be a natural thing wouldnt it? another interesting paradox is that adam would have to sin in order to get into heaven. this is because from the context, if adam had obeyed that command, then he wouldnt have died would he?

by god saying that you would surely die, we can only assume that he meant exactly and literally what he said, which is that adam would die. just like a rock is "dead" so adam would become.

at this point people might say, miriam, your putting words in god's mouth, thats just your interpretation.

nope, because god himself uses a similar illustration to explain this to adam.

gen 3:[19] In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

notice, "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return". god is actually explaining to adam what death will be like using something that adam knows. he knows that he didnt exist before had "birth" or "creation". and now god is telling him that he will return to that condition. there is no mention of his "soul" or essence surviving. adam sinned and his punishment was death. this adam alive in some form today? no.

so heres a question, if nonexistence is waited for adam and eve for sinning, why did they sin?

gen 3:[1] Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
[2] And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
[5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

there are several possibilities to what the serpent is saying here. one is that he is simply saying they wont die. they'll eat the fruit and become like god's but they wont die. the other is that this is the beginning of a concept of an afterlife. in other words he's telling them that they wont die, but instead they will change. the bible simply doesnt say.

what we do know is that the serpent is lying. this lie has be present throughout human history. the world's religions constantly teach that death is not what we think it is. from babylon to our time organized religion has taught us that death is nothing more than a change. it takes different forms like reincarnation, or transcendence but its still the same lie, "ye shall not surely die"

thats why hellfire doctrine is so dangerous, one is taking sides with the serpent.

SO WHAT EXACTLY IS HELL?

well, if we dont have an immortal soul (ezekial 18:4,20) and the dead are nonexistant (eccl 9:5,10) then we can deduce that hell is not a place, at least in a literal way.

the hebrew scriptures use the word "she'ol", this is commonly literally translated as "grave" although it is from this word too that some translations translate "hell"

in the greek scriptures, the word that is translated "hell" is "ha'des" this too has connotations with the grave.

so, lets say we were to say that hell is not a fiery torturous afterlife, lets just say that hell is the grave. certain scriptures will begin to make sense. (i put THE GRAVE where sheol or hades is)(american standard bible translation)

1 samuel 2:6 The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to THE GRAVE and raises up

job 7:7 “Remember that my life is but breath; My eye will not again see good. 8 “The eye of him who sees me will behold me no longer; Your eyes will be on me, but I will not be. 9 “When a cloud vanishes, it is gone, So he who goes down to THE GRAVE does not come up. 10 “He will not return again to his house, Nor will his place know him anymore.

psalm 89:48 What man can live and not see death? Can he deliver his soul from the power of THE GRAVE? Selah.

psalm 6:5 For there is no mention of You in death; In THE GRAVE who will give You thanks?

job 17:16 "Will it go down with me to THE GRAVE? Shall we together go down into the dust?"

job 24:19 "Drought and heat consume the snow waters, So does THE GRAVE those who have sinned.

habakkuk 2:5 "Furthermore, wine betrays the haughty man, So that he does not stay at home. He enlarges his appetite like THE GRAVE, And he is like death, never satisfied. He also gathers to himself all nations And collects to himself all peoples.

so we see that in the hebrew scriptures, death and hell seem to be intertwined. almost used interchangeably, even jonah talked about being in the belly of hell (meaning the fish would be his grave), job even prayed to go to sheol.

sheol is indescreminent, meaning both the righteous and unrighteous go there. what about hades? well its not mentioned as much as in the hebrew scriptures, but the context is still the same.

1 cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades), where is thy victory?

acts 2:27 because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your Holy One to see decay.

acts 2:31 he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was his soul left in Hades, nor did his flesh see decay.

revelation 1:18 and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. I have the keys of Death and of Hades.

so we can clearly see from the context that "hell" is the grave. its a state of being nonexistent, yet remembered. it has both righteous and unrighteous people in it.

hell is not the lake of fire. we know this because hell and death are thrown into the lake of fire.

rev 20:14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

this scripture give us the most revealing truth about hell. hell is not death in general. hell is death with possibility of resurrection. rev 20 talked about hell being emptied and then hell was thrown in the lake. after, those unfaithful were not thrown into hell, they were thrown directly into the lake of fire implying that there was no further resurrection for them.

TARTARUS

2 peter 2:[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

here the word tartarus is used. but is this the same place as hell or the lake of fire?

not at all. 2 reasons.

1 - the inhabitants of tartarus are alive. unlike hell were those in it are unconscience of their condition.
2 - the angels in tartarus are not given a second chance unlike those in hell who are raised again.

so tartarus is a condition of condemnation for satan and his demons. they are isolated from god and await judgment (or execution) but in the meantime are permitted to live and go about their business.

tartarus being translated into hell is probably a mistranslation




LAKE OF FIRE

the greek word that was used to depict this was "gehenna"

literally this place was a trash heap outside the city of jerusalem that was literally kept burning with sulfur. it was also a place that they used to dispose the bodies of criminals unfit for burial. this place was a place of destruction, not eternal torment and the jews listening to jesus would have known that.

matt 10:28 Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

this scripture differentiates "gehenna" from "hell". see hell is a condition that is much like gehenna in that you are nonexistent. however in "hell" you have the chance of resurrection and restoration in that god can remember you soul (or who you were). in gehenna you are completely destroyed.

note: destroyed, not tormented.

Originally posted by hardcoremusiclover
But once again, the bible makes it clear that even the smallest unforgivin sin will land you in hell unless you repent before death. It says "eternal seperation from god"

Call me scared.. but I sin on a daily basis and I am scared more than anything imaginable to go to hell for such small sins. Why can't their be a alternative place for those who aren't evil terrible people, yet not perfect? A median if you will?

sometimes its better to understand what exactly hell is first, then other questions can be answered.

just because one is sent to hell, doesnt mean that they are there permanently

acts 24:[15] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.