Ron Paul says stimulus documentation was impossible to read

To the folks that voted obama. What the hell did you get us into? Are we going to be looking back on the Bush years as the good ole days? Granted obma The Destroyer didn't have any competition but damn it! I've got this feeling the down word slope that we've started on just dropped out from under us.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." —Communist Tyrant and mass murderer Josef Stalin

voterfraud.org

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by wutone


We have got to get over Democrats and Republicans. They are one and the same. If America comes crashing down and we are all out here blaming the "other party" we will be truly doomed. Every time I see or here someone hurling blame I just think to myself "divided we fall"

I believe Ron Paul is as honest a politician as your going to find but he is an exception.

reply to post by David9176


What a surprise...Make it big, make it impossible to read....Who cares just sign it right!?

WRONG...This is what happens when you let the government take every sole right you as an American carry dear with you. This bill has snuck in things that we may never even know about.

If this is the change I was hearing so much about- count me out.

We are on the road to a monstrous catastrophe. What your noticing, like everyone else, is people starting to break down. Emotionally, physically, mentally people are drained right now and its wearing them thin. As states attempt to stand up against the government, your seeing the first step in revolution. We are now fighting the same monster that this country was based off of fighting against. We have become the beast.

Mmmkayyy... while Kay Bailey Hutchinson from Texas found time to read the bill and comment heavily on it, and while the readers of the Huffington Post and other newssites and even lobbyists found time to read the bill and comment on it -- Ron Paul found it "hard to read?"

Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House, posted it in full on her website and apparently read the whole thing and had summaries put up on her website along with updates. The summaries show that someone was able to read and understand the language:
www.speaker.gov...

A number of Senators and Representatives read it thoroughly enough to debate the items in the bill and fight for things they wanted.

But Ron Paul found it hard to read.

It's a long document, but the print is large. It's dull in spots, but it's not designed to be an Edgar Award winning mystery novel.

But Ron Paul found it hard to read.

Originally posted by David9176
The whole thing is a damn disaster.

I don't know what else I can say about it. I already went on my rant earlier today as I about flipped my lid when this information came out.

We are on the road to ruin.

What's going to happen first? "Rebirth" of the Constitution (I don't like the word Revolution) and the citizens reclaim their country? Or do we all sit and continue to watch our government go crazy with spending bills which will destroy our economy and make us all live in poverty?

What's it going to be?

I prefer the word "Restoration" rather than 'revolution'.

We need to RESTORE the power of the Constitution, and strip the federal government of all the unconstitutional laws they've written.

reply to post by Byrd


Right. The amount of hard work that everyone has been contributing is shaping up a plan has been in effect while politicians like Ron Paul find it difficult and overwhelming to make an effort. It must be a difficult choice being Republican or Democrat these days.

reply to post by Byrd


If by "read" you mean "skim" or "glance" than you may have a half valid point. Sorry, Byrd, but it is clear very few get the privileged to actually dive into this thing and read it word for word. You can rationalize it all you want but there are numerous news sources throughout the great USA today that go against what you are saying.

I guess the American people will continue to rationalize terrible legislature and we will continue on the road in which we are currently heading. This rationalization of this junk is what will continue leading us towards larger and larger government and more and more economic stress.

What they need is an official poll of how many congressmen and senators have actually read the bill in its entirety. I think that would most definitely shine a bit more light on the issue.


[edit on 14-2-2009 by Bugman82]

What I wonder reading through all these threads is when websites of dissent ,such as ATS, will be shut down by the Obama/Democrat REICH!

Wow... just last year you guy's voted ultimate power in terms of a majority in Senate vote... and already you're paying for it.

My only thought, those in city's with a Dem Senator need to ask whether they read the stimulus and ask for immediate answers as to how it will affect you directly... make your elected voice aware that they have just passed something even they didn't understand... clique's can be so dangerous, but you've given them 4 years of guaranteed dictatorship so this is what you'll get.

I love your country, really do, but for the first time in my life I don't want to move there and am ever so glad I don't live there.

reply to post by CreeWolf


...leading to the rest of the "uncommercial" free voicing, opinionated net...
2nd line

We elect officials to government with very little true information about them. This is the case worldwide. We depend on the media to out them, if there is any question about their integrity. It is ironic to depend on the media for this information. Hence, we have ATS.

That being said, we depend on the integrity of our officials. Integrity comes down to personal beliefs. Personal beliefs may have a wide range. I like to think that Christianity or some other religions create a good moral base.

I went to one of the service academies, where the moral code, "The Honor Code," states that "I will not lie, steal or cheat or tolerate anyone else who does." If you violated that code, you would be expelled. There have been times when over 100 cadets were expelled--- removed within 24 hours. Most of those were not themselves cheating, but not exposing those whom they knew were cheating.

I think this kind of yardstick should be used on politicians. It should be included in their oath of office, shortly after the statement of how they will defend the Constitution.

What do you think?

By the way, Capt Sullenberger, the Hero of the Hudson, was one of my fellow cadets. What do you think of that kind of person? Wouldn't you like those values in office?

Originally posted by RobertPaulsim
Oh boy.... handwritting? pf.... 12 hours to read 1100 pages?
Thats 92 pages/hour.... almost 2 pages a minute... IMPOSSIBLE!

how on earth is this possible? why the people are not screaming
in front of the white house?

I was a little skeptic about celente comments and all, but this is real.
Eventually the NWO will be the only solution, and people will want it.

The survival forum will have a lot of traffic in the next months...

I imagine there where soft copies per Fox News who interviewed a woman who said she'd stayed up all night to read it two nights ago.

Someone isn't being honest and I'm not sure why? I'd have to agree how impossible it would be to read the entire document/bill with all the amendments before voting on it.

Seems to me we the people have been once again misled!

Yep he is correct and it is coming if YOU and I do nothing! Write to your congressman and senators make you voice heard! Form groups just do something. We spend a trillion dollars a year for over seas bases. What if we spent that here in America. Our borders would be closed our troops would be here, homelessness would be almost gone, no more hunger and on and on!

We do not need to police the world!!! Read your history. There will still be a revolution in this country, that will be the change!!! Not this bs on the hill is doing! Get rid of NAFTA and AFTA!!! Then jobs would be manufactured here not elsewhere. Out of the big 3 that got bailed out one of those I believe chrysler their payroll got sent to Jamaica. Abolish the
federal reserve!!!!

reply to post by Byrd


I don't know. Thoroughly read 1,100 pages in the middle of the night, review all changes, research the probable impact of all items and make sure that the largest spending bill in history is the best they could possibly pass and the most effective stimulus measures possible?

You believe that a bill of this importance should have been passed in this manner without public review?

Lets not forget Obama's promise of 5 days of public review and total transparency which was forgotten the moment the promise was made.

I'm asking myself, was this bill important enough not to be rushed through for a Holiday Weekend, even though in doing so important promises to us by the President had to be laid aside? Should "We the People" have had more time to express our concerns and have them actually addressed by the Bill's signers as we are the ones paying for it.

Broken promise to have no Lobbyists in the Cabinet.

Broken promise of 5 days of Public review.

Tax cheats in the Cabinet.

The new head of the Treasury was unable to answer even simple questions as he came for more money on top of this after Obama answered no questions because he did not want to steal his thunder.

Cases of no transparency in the White House piling up already; yet another broken promise.

I had high hopes, but I think it is clear what the next four years will be. Nothing but hardcore Partisan crazed out of control spending on measures that probably won't work.

Hope and Change? Not in this Administration. I'm not even a Republican and I'm pissed already. Anytime the Radicals on either side get this much control I know the future is bleak.

The Left, ruled by some of the richest people on Earth even though they claim to be for the masses does not give a damn about the working class and the Right does not seem to care about the working poor. Both sides are our worst enemies and now the most radical of all have complete control of the entire government simply by throwing money at a couple of Republican Senators who are for sale cheap.

How anyone could believe one side having complete control is a good thing is beyond understanding. We will pay and pay and pay and pay. $400 won't even pay this months heat bill. Food has gone up here so much in the last couple of weeks its screaming to me, watch your butt they are coming to take a giant bite out of it.

Our economy here has been untouched so far but people are so scared the Restaurants have started cutting back their hours due to lack of customers. Imagine that, no Recession here and yet fear is going to cause a fake one.

If this is change, I'll take a Reagan clone any day.

Since Schiff was an economic advisor to the Ron Paul campaign I guess I'll just leave this here. Summed up, so I don't have to.

www.europac.net...

Obama’s Opening Salvo There is nearly universal agreement that the opening salvo of the Obama Administration’s campaign to restore health to the financial system, delivered this week by new Treasury Secretary Geithner, fell with a loud and ugly thud. The most common criticism is that the announcement was short on detail. What is abundantly clear, however, is that the new Administration intends to push spending back up to pre-crash levels and to fill the entire credit void that has disappeared into the black hole of the American financial system. Whether or not the prior levels of spending and lending were justified by market conditions then, or now, appears to be largely unexamined. In the worldview of Geithner and like-minded economists, credit, rather than savings, is the central figure in the economic equation. Therefore, he sees anything that eases the process of lending to be an effective economic policy. With such a view in mind, the centerpiece of Geithner’s plan is the commitment of up to $1 trillion to revive the collapsed market for securitized debt. In the lead up to the Crash of 2008 securitization, more than anything else, permitted Americans to borrow more than they had ever borrowed before. Developed primarily over the last 10 years, securitization permitted loans of all shapes and sizes to be packaged into investment-ready securities. The system worked, fueling unprecedented levels of lending in the home, auto, student, and credit card sectors. But in the last few years as the collateral underpinning these securities has collapsed in value, the trillions of dollars of securitized debt now in circulation has become the toxic sludge at the bottom of our financial pit. Geithner is making the false assumption that cleaning up and rebuilding the securitization market is a prerequisite for a healthy economy. Our nation’s short history with wide securitization has simply shown that the process can lead to massive mispricing of assets and risk. By artificially rebuilding the securitization market, and committing taxpayer funds as collateral, the U.S. economy will be pushed farther and farther out on a leveraged limb, until no amount of market medicine can prevent a total economic collapse. In truth, the only vital function provided by securitization was that it offered foreign savers a pathway to lend directly to American consumers, and Wall Street executives a new asset class to over-leverage for massive profits. Our economy must dispense with these gimmicks if it hopes to pursue a meaningful recovery. After more than a decade of unsustainable borrowing and spending, the private sector is currently attempting to restore balance through reduced consumer and mortgage credit, greater savings, and lower asset prices. With its trillions of dollars of credit injections and stimulus programs, the government hopes to allay this process by force-feeding Americans a diet of more borrowing. They feel that a restored securitization market will help. It won’t. It will just grease the skids for a quicker collapse. Credit, whether securitized or not, cannot be created out of thin air. It only comes into existence though savings, which must be preceded by under-consumption. Since savings are scarce, any government guarantees toward consumer credit merely crowd out credit that might otherwise have been available to business. During the previous decade too much credit was extended to consumers and not enough to producers (securitization focused almost exclusively on consumer debt). The market is trying to correct this misallocation, but government policy is standing in the way. When consumers borrow and spend, society gains nothing. When producers borrow and invest, our capital stock is improved, and we all benefit from the increased productivity. Consumers default on credit much more frequently than businesses. This is because businesses typically use loans to expand, and then have greater cash flow to repay the debt. In contrast, consumers typically borrow to consume and in the process do not improve their ability to repay. As a result, one would expect consumer credit to be harder and more expensive to obtain. But that is currently not the case. Government guarantees have altered the playing field, so that now consumers are still being offered credit while businesses are being shown the door. By shifting credit away from producers, fewer goods and services will be produced for consumers to buy and fewer employment opportunities provided for them to earn money with which to buy the goods. To restore prosperity, credit (derived from savings rather than a printing press) must flow to producers. Greater liquidity for business will lead to legitimate job creation, increased production, and rising living standards. By further encumbering the economy with burdensome regulation, and by transferring business decisions to vote-seeking politicians who will bail out the irresponsible, reward failure and punish success, the government will create a society destined for misery. In an interview following his announcement, Geithner stated that government should replace the demand lost by the private sector. However, those with even a marginal grasp of economics know that demand is unlimited. It is the ability to spend that is not. While Americans still want all the things they wanted years ago, they have made the rational choice that they can no longer afford to buy at the same levels they once did. Using a printing press to replace this lost ‘demand’ will simply cause consumer prices to rise. Printed money does not create new purchasing power, but merely redistributes it from savers to borrowers. And since the plan will severely undermine the real productive capacity of our economy, there will not be much purchasing power left to redistribute!

People, get used to this kind of stuff. The dems have complete control of congress the executive and soon judicial branch. The opposing party will not be able to stop a damn thing (as evident in the past month of legislation). Obama is the politician the elite have been waiting for a long time his celebrity and cult of personality will be unstoppable for some time. Anything he and his party want they’ll get. and its funny to me how Obama and the dems said "this bill has to be passed ASAP to stop the blood letting of the economy if we don’t push this bill through quickly there will be a catastrophe", when now they are saying that we wont see an effect for a couple of years......the American people are getting robbed blind and well feel it for decades.

Originally posted by sliceNodice
This is evil, this is dirty, this is vial!!! What in the hell is wrong with our congressmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????

I am so #ing mad right now...

But you know what pisses me off the most!?!? They will get away with this! It's just about enough to make one man lose it....

Wait no... that is not what pisses me off the most. What really makes my blood boil is the fact NOBODY WILL DO ANYTHING ABOUT THIS.

I will tell you what I am going to do about it. I am going to start a blog, and warn people about what is going on in congress.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by sliceNodice]

It needs people getting together and physically going out onto the streets and making their voices heard.

I can only hope that people get prepared for what is coming down the road. There is a mighty storm coming...

Mind/body/spirit.. be strong.

Obama really did not lie about change at all. This is what fascinates me most. Magicians they are indeed...

reply to post by Chance321


Do not place blame on others, it is all our fault for allowing this. We are still here online as we speak.

Just be aware. Our global inaction (I am in no way making a blanketed statement extending to every individual on this planet) has caused a lot of this.