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NEWS: NTSB: Unknown object downed Cessna in swamp near Mobile

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posted on May, 23 2004 @ 11:17 AM
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NMS,
Good points! I can't recall, did this happen at night? If a UAV was flying dark, then a head-on is certainly possible. I wonder how many of our tax dollars went down in that one, not to mention the life that was lost.
CS




posted on May, 23 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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Just a thought: What about a Giant Scale RC aircraft? Someones hobby gone wrong?

Probably not, since it was at night, but maybe someone was making their own version of a predator/ SAM?


[Edited on 23-5-2004 by HowardRoark]



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 11:58 AM
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RC
I think whatever the the plane hit had both sunstantial speed and mass. I would think that be required for the engine black to have been split.
CS



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 12:07 PM
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The one thing about this case that has always fascinated me is the fact that the engine block was split in half. Whatever it was, it would have to be small so as not to destroy the plane outright, but had sufficient velocity and strength.

Another thing, the pilot evidently saw whatever it was since he kept repeating that he needed to deviate. This would seem to contradict the hypothesis that it somethng small and fast since that would not be easy to discern.



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 12:30 PM
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Again, let me reiterate, this was not a piston engine, it was a turbine. These are nothing like the piston engine blocks in your minivan.

Furthermore, at operating speeds, a small piece of debris can cause enormous damage (called FOD for foreign object damage). Remember that the concord was downed by FOD.

I am no expert on the subject, but it seems to me that if the rotating props were struck in such a way as to bend the shaft, the engine could well be torn in half from the resulting damage.



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 01:40 PM
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Ooops, I thought it was a piston engine. I'll have to check out more on that model.



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 02:02 PM
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How is a trubine engine different? I would guess like a jet engine but it's in a cowling so that's obviously not it...

Again, small, dense unmanned ariel vehicle going JUST UNDER THE SPEED OF SOUND, probably trailing a flame becuase the pilot saw it...maybe a next gen "silent" missle that stays off radar...



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by HowardRoark
Again, let me reiterate, this was not a piston engine, it was a turbine. These are nothing like the piston engine blocks in your minivan.

Furthermore, at operating speeds, a small piece of debris can cause enormous damage (called FOD for foreign object damage). Remember that the concord was downed by FOD.


Sorry for using the word "block." The point I was trying to make was with respect that the engine was split into two pieces and not destroyed. From what I have read this was an anomoly.

And please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the Concord accident was caused by a piece of metal piercing a tire which set off an explosion which ruptured the fuel tanks. Did they find something different in the end?



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 02:38 PM
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Pratt & Whitney PT6A-114A




Although as HR pointed out, this engine does not have an "engine block" per se, it is a very substantial piece of hardware and it is unusual that it would be broken in two after an accident.

I agree that if someting hit the prop, it could cause massive damage to the motor, including a breach of the outer casing, but I do not see an internal failure causing a breech of the entire engine.

Also, the investigators seem to feel the engine was halved in flight, not as a result of ground impact. And, my read of the damage to the fans in the engine seem to agree with the theory that the engine was hit, under power, from the outside causing a catastrophic failure, and (possibly) breaking the engine in two.

About the PT6A:

www.pwc.ca...



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 03:15 PM
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The original post described the plane as single engine Cessna. That looks like a lot of engine for a little Cessna. This isn't my area of expertise, but are we sure about that engine?



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 03:20 PM
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From the Accident report on page 1 of this thread:


Examination of the engine a Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-114A, S/N PC0710, found severe impact damage.


FYI, there are two versions of this engine, and this plane actually used the bigger one!



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 03:35 PM
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From the report:


The engine was broken into two sections and separated from the airframe.


and



Examination of the engine a Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-114A, S/N PC0710, found severe impact damage. Only the power section and part of the gas generator was recovered. The constant speed unit, fuel control unit and fuel pump were not recovered. The compressor turbine stators were found bent in the direction of rotor rotation. The first and second stage compressor rotors were not recovered. The engine power section including the reduction gearbox and gas generator was recovered intact. The compressor intake case and remaining engine including the accessory gearbox and accessories were not recovered. The engine displayed impact damage at the 4 o'clock position on the exhaust case in the area of the flange. The propeller shaft was intact and seized. The exhaust duct displayed severe impact deformation with a significant portion detached. The gas generator case displayed evidence of structural compression and buckling. The compressor section was exposed as recovered. The 1st and 2nd stage compressor rotors were not recovered. The 3rd stage compressor rotor was missing all blades except one which was found lodged in the 2nd stage stator. The impeller was intact with nicks on the leading edge. The 1st and 2nd stage compressor stators were intact and found bent in the direction of rotor rotation. the 3rd stage stator was found intact with minor damage to the leading edge. The 2nd and 3rd stage spacers were found intact. The 1st stage spacer was missing. The tie rods were fractured in the region of the 1st stage rotor. The compressor inlet case and remaining engine was detached at the flange attachment to the gas generator case. The compressor shroud displayed circumferential rubbing due to compressor rotor blades making radial contact. Examination of the power turbine as viewed through the exhaust duct showed several blades fractured near the tip. The blades remained attached to the power turbine disk. Examination of the engine revealed that the damage noted was consistent with the engine making power at time of the accident.


It sounds like a lot of the damage was caused when an engine running at full power hit something. There is no way to tell, without comparing the damage pattern to the damage caused by a known impact, just how big or massive the mystery object was.


Some pictures from this article.










[Edited on 23-5-2004 by HowardRoark]



posted on May, 23 2004 @ 03:55 PM
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SB,
Thanks for the specifics on the engine. Still, that had to be one helluvan impact. Problem is, I don't think they'll ever be avle to conclusively say what happened - at least for public consumption. If it had been another plane, absent a black project type, we would already have heard about it or seen the wreckage.
CS



posted on Oct, 10 2014 @ 12:20 AM
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I found recent interest in this case since it is being raised again on SCI channels "Unexplained Files" and wanted to comment on a specific peculiarity in it. The pilots last transmission "I needed to deviate, I needed to deviate, I needed..." seems to indicate to me at least that he has already avoided hitting or being hit by something at least once already (how many times might he have dealt with avoiding something before hitting his mic about it?) and was apparently approached by an object again and was impacted by it thus cutting his transmission off in mid sentence. They played the transmission of comms between him and the control center and that guy was very stressed during the last transmission. Even the NTSB report stated that his voice decibel levels doubled. There is still something pretty fishy about this one IMHO.

I can dismiss the red scuff marks as the result of plastic or something similar being smeared on parts or the aircraft as it was being impacted although the placement of them is suspicious and the testing of the was a bit inconclusive. The other thing that irks me is the condition of the wreckage at the site. This thing was practically shredded on the forward section of the aircraft, through the engine compartment, the firewall and on into the cockpit. The pilot being found half a mile away indicates to me that he was ripped from the plane at impact and fell away from the flight path of the wreckage landing some distance from the plane. The plane being found resting ON TOP of the swamp and its mud is an indication a non-powered terminal velocity impact with the swamp and its 8-10 feet of mud. It wasn't found buried, it was found scattered along the surface.

Just weird I say...poor guy.
edit on 10-10-2014 by Lost_Mind because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2014 @ 12:23 AM
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This is a remarkable report.
Why has no one stared and flagged it?
SnF



posted on Oct, 10 2014 @ 03:31 AM
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I also saw this case on The Unexplained Files. Very, very bizarre. It very well could have been some kind of military drone being tested and it was covered up. However, what gets me is his last transmissions. "I had to deviate..." That's past tense. So it sounds as if he already avoided whatever it was. So then, what destroyed his plane? Did it come back after him? If so, why? Did it fire some kind of weapon? Was there a second one that he didn't see?

I really just can't understand how he seemingly managed to avoid whatever it was, only to get taken out by something (else?) seconds later.



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