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Conservatives, liberals, Guns, and Drugs

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posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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We already have the infrastructure in place to legalize drugs. And as stated before the problem users are already using drugs irresponsibly. Legalization would place more strict guidelines on production, distribution, and consumption. It would stop prosecuting millions of non-violent criminals and free up our LEO's for the crimes that need to dealt with. It would take the legs out from under drug cartels, it would also reduce the spreading of HIV. Kids would have a harder time obtaining said drugs (but still would be able to get them). Production of said drugs would cause an industry to rise and create jobs and tax revenue. Those are just some of the Pros. Some Cons are that drug use would most definitely increase, maybe temporarily but that is speculation. It would also become more socially acceptable and thus could have damaging social effects. But the fact still remains making drugs illegal does not stop people from using. So we can never win this perpetual war on drugs. The most logical approach is through damage control and education.




posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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As a conservative, I've always believed that if we, as a society, are going to allow people to get piss drunk when we know that many of them are then going to operate a two ton automobile capable of speeds in excess of 100mph, then why not legalize 'other' drugs, especially marijuana? I'd guess that alcohol kills more people and ruins far more lives in America than drugs and all of us evil gun owners put together.

I don't use drugs, nor do I drink, but I do know a double-standard when I see one. Its past time to legalize it. Doing so would drastically reduce the burden of our legal system and allow better regulation and higher safety standards for the currently illegal drugs on the market.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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I would like to extend a sincere thank you too all that have given their input. So to do a recap up to this point here are the valid concerns that have been raised.

Making drugs legal would cause and increase in use.

Making drugs legal would allow people to grow their own and make profitability null.

Making drugs legal would have negative effects on the working population.

Making drugs legal would place more burden on the "system"



Taking things one at a time let's look at these valid concerns one at a time. The first point I would like to put forward is the fact that all points put forward no matter where you stand are speculation. All points are speculative because we have never actually tried to do this [legalize drugs]. That being said let's think about the first point - Making drugs legal would increase use : I can see where one would make this assumption. I also feel that initially this statement might be correct. Do however understand than as many have put forward here we are not asking for a free for all here. I think it's fair to say that even the people that are pushing for legalization want regulation. I don't think we should un-regulate alcohol because there are legitimate reasons why it is regulated. The same would apply to any drug.

I would also like to point out that some studies have shown marijuana use among dutch youths has actually declined in the past years. It could well be that marijuanna use as a whole is down world wide among teens and it's just the same in the netherlands as this report states www.huffingtonpost.com... g-_n_163516.html if you want a link to fox news saying the same thing I will provide it.

Society as a whole has been using marijuana (and other drugs) since the beginning of recorded history. Regardless of legality the use goes up and down throughout history and will continue to do the same. Do look at china and the opium wars en.wikipedia.org.... It's strange that a war was fought for the un-regulation of a drug. I personally feel that this was a horrible thing to do to a group of people. They saw the damage being done and tried to regulate it but a foreign country was profiting off of it so much that they wanted to keep doing so. Hence they fought a war to keep things un-regulated. History has shown us the danger of un-regulation but once again keep in mind that no one has put forward a free for all, we understand we must proceed with caution.

This as the rest of the points made will probably end with "we just don't know". Until something is implemented we can put good and bad speculation forward. I don't think the attitude of not trying something on account of bad speculation has ever had a positive outcome. That is just my thought though and possibly a wrong one.


Making drugs legal would allow people to grow their own and make profitability null.------ I have in the past grown tobacco and brewed my own beer. It wasn't the fact that I wanted to "stick it to the man", I just wanted to try it. The amount achieved was for personal use among myself and friends. I don't think it would be any different in drugs. I can't go into business brewing my own beer and selling without paying uncle sam taxes on it why? One because it's illegal and I don't think the risk merits the reward. Two, and probably the main reason, I don't have the scale to make it efficient. I don't get truckloads of barley and malt like the major brewing companies. Even if I wanted to take it to this scale there is a lot of learning to do on my part, learning that could be costly and potentially ruin the endeavor. I am content with picking up a 12 pack from a place of business regulated by the government. Once again there is the regulation that would need to be in place for any drug made legal.


Making drugs legal would have negative effects on the working population.-- This is a true and valid statement. But I can however say that I would take going to work the day after consuming a bunch of marijuana over a day at work after consuming a bunch of alcohol any time.
The effects of alcohol have greatly negative effects on the working population. I would even go so far as to say it would be an easier day after large consumption of coc aine. So while this point is valid, we have a legal drug that's most likely having more effect on the workforce than most illegal drugs. I don't look for alcohol being illegal any time soon.

Making drugs legal would place more burden on the "system"-- Once again a valid concern. Let's first look at how drugs are burdening the system while illegal. I always here about the billions spent yearly on the war on drugs. I would like to point out that many people forget drug possession (in large quantities) gives the government the ability to seize EVERYTHING you own. Your money, your house, your property, your car, EVERYTHING. If drugs were legal this would not be the case. I can legitimately say that this will have a burden on the system. I have often wondered if this is the true reason drugs are not legal. I mean if you are dealing with large quantities of drugs you are going to most likely have large net worth.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that the government is going to look at this as a great idea to be able to absorb all of that. I do feel though that if this is really what is holding our law enforcement system up, they have a flawed and corrupt business model. There will be tax dollars! There will probably be tourism, I know personally 3 peoplel that have gone to Amsterdam for no other reason than the fact they can smoke pot without being a criminal. Just for the sensation of that alone people will throw down thousands of dollars to feel it. Why do you think it would be any different here? I don't really see where it could not be a profitable endeavor for any country. Also consider the fact of having a competitive marketplace driving the price down. If I am spending less on the drugs that I am going to buy regardless of their legality guess what? I got more money to spend on other things. New shoes, clothes, washer and dryer.... basically all the things that are stagnate in our current market because people don't have the money 2 spend.


[edit on 112828p://666 by shizzle5150]



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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First of all, you are either for gun rights or not. You can't propose banning certain firearms just because they make you uneasy- that suggests that you dont really believe in the underlying principle that more guns in civilian hands = less crimes.

Secondly, drugs should only be legal if there is absolutely no form of state welfare. I don't give a crap if some junkie wants to destroy his brain chemistry, or smoke dope and turn schizophrenic... as long as I don't have to pay for it.

For the UK (where I live), there is the NHS = socialized healthcare... hence for the UK it would be inappropriate to have legal drugs, since the side effects and aftermath would have to be paid for by those who didn't actually use the drug.

So in summary- I believe in the right of people to do whatever they want, so long as Im not left with the bill; and so long as I have the right to do as I wish. Libertarianism 101



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
First of all, you are either for gun rights or not. You can't propose banning certain firearms just because they make you uneasy-


It's sort of like only being for gay marriage with a caveat. Like they must both be female and they must both be attractive or it shouldnt be legal. But going around telling everyone you support gay marriage.




So in summary- I believe in the right of people to do whatever they want, so long as Im not left with the bill; and so long as I have the right to do as I wish. Libertarianism 101


Heaven.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by shizzle5150
I would like to extend a sincere thank you too all that have given their input. So to do a recap up to this point here are the valid concerns that have been raised.

Making drugs legal would cause and increase in use.


Having to step over a passed out or dead junky on the way to school can be a significant deterrent. I dont get how anybody gets hooked on drugs anyway in this day and age. What sort of moron hears "smoke crack" and thinks this a good idea?



Making drugs legal would allow people to grow their own and make profitability null.


I know a few people who brew their own beer but nobody who makes their own spirits. I dont know anybody who grows tobacco for their own use either.



Making drugs legal would have negative effects on the working population.

Making drugs legal would place more burden on the "system"


Only if the "system" keeps supporting addicts. It's its own fault if it's burdened.

Let every addict use and every addict be free to die under a bridge somewhere. We could create some jobs by hauling carts around and cleaning up the dead.

Unless you've been raised in some isolated cave for 20 years you have absolutely no excuse. There isnt a 5 year old in America who doesnt know smoking meth isn't the best of ideas and if everyone knows taking too much aspirin or Flinstones vitamins can make you sick why arent they expected to know that too much oxycontin is going to make them sick?

These people have been allowed to be stupid for too long. Take the burden off the "system" and let them get the full brint of the consequences of their actions.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
So in summary- I believe in the right of people to do whatever they want, so long as Im not left with the bill; and so long as I have the right to do as I wish. Libertarianism 101


I don't want you left with the bill, I want you as a law abiding citizen to profit socially and financially. Also I think you got me wrong on the gun rights, I said I have never seen anyone hunting with a mac-10 and quite frankly I think it's a easily concealed bullet machine that is often used for the wrong reasons. I did not however say making it illegal would solve the issue of people using one for the wrong reasons. Would I like people to stop using them in drive by shootings yes, and I am all for anything that would curb that but know making it illegal is not one of them.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Good points thisguy, I will however say that I would like to see people helped before they end up dying. I am fully aware however that there are some that can't be.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
It would also become more socially acceptable and thus could have damaging social effects. But the fact still remains making drugs illegal does not stop people from using. So we can never win this perpetual war on drugs. The most logical approach is through damage control and education.


Some drugs, like meth, are extremely damaging and I don’t see these types of drugs as ever being legal in anyway. So the problem is what drugs do we make legal and what drugs do we keep illegal, and who decides?

But then legalizing some drugs could actually make some really bad drugs obsolete.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Xtrozero]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 11:15 AM
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