It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Air Force Report : UFOs are From Other Planets

page: 4
17
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:12 AM
link   
reply to post by bloodcircle

While I do appreciate your help Bloodcircle, as I said earlier I am not the subject; please do not feed into Majorion.

reply to post by Majorion

For the record, I doubt Mr. Bloodcircle actually worships Satan, just as much as I doubt you are Altier. We are not our avatars.




posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:48 AM
link   
And yet again we see SC attempting to evade the questions that have been raised.


Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Never said it did.

Did I actually claim you said it? Certainly not. What I did do was clarify your response for you so as to help you understand the distinction between being skeptical and simply having a biased attitude towards said subject. Being skeptical - again - is not equal to having a biased attitude with one's mind already made up. More questions?


I would suggest reviewing this link, then tell me if people are not convinced they know the absolute truth.

Do you actually think this link of yours proves your point? I think not. It may show the mindset of some people. That's about it. So try again, whydontyou.


Insofar as this thread is concerned, I never said anything otherwise.

Well, let's see. What you did claim was the following:


It is the UFO believers. Each is convinced they know the absolute truth.

Doesn't look like you're offering your personal opinion here, now does it? Reads a whole lot more like you're claiming something you believe to be factual. I have yet to see you share evidence of this claim. But by all means, try to do so.




Originally posted by Durden
Fair enough. You should realize however that actual scrutiny works both ways.



Never said it didn't.

And did I say you said it didn't? Certainly not. Refrain to putting words in my mouth.


If you are going to demand someone prove they are qualified to give their opinion, it is only fair you do the same.

I have already stated my reasons for asking for your background - or rational reasoning from your person. Now what opinion of mine is it exactly you need my credentials? Again, I merely asked you to provide something substantial to support your claims. Why do you feel such a request needs credentials? Seems to me you're only attempting to evade the issue at hand which doesn't help your argument - quite the opposite. So try again.


Not in so many words. It is in the implication that somehow I may not be qualified to discuss the subjects here.

Again, refrain from such nonsense and reply to my actual comments. I certainly haven't implied such a thing. What I will say though, is that your post continue to lack any type of actual reasoning, something you attempt to cover with complete nonsense and false claims.


You have demonstrated you are a hypocrite. After demanding a person's credentials, you refuse to produce your own and tell us you do not have to.

Yet another infantile comment. I have stated my reasons for asking you for your credentials or evidence supporting your claims. What are your reasons for needing my credentials when I'm asking you a question? How is it this appears to be so difficult for you?


I have an idea, instead of discussing my personality, why don't we discuss the topic?

How about you try and provide support for your claims or admit you've made claims solely based on your personal opinion - based on little to no rational reasoning or support? As well as ask forgiveness from myself as well as the other members in question for your nonsensical name-calling?

[edit on 15/2/09 by Durden]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Majorion, the topic is not me. I politely asked for you and others to stop trying to make it about me.

Please, tell us what your thoughts on the Project Sign document or the subtopic of the truth being more alien than the common beliefs regarding UFOs.

So you enjoy making unsubstantiated claims coupled with calling a few members of the board hypocrites, but you run and hide when you're being scrutinized and it gets a little uncomfortable? Well, I guess now we know what you're about.


[edit on 15/2/09 by Durden]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:16 AM
link   
Double post.

[edit on 15/2/09 by Durden]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 08:56 AM
link   
Morning/afternoon/evening folks.

Let's stick to the subject of the thread please, which is....

Air Force Report : UFOs are From Other Planets.


Lets stay way from discussing each other and discuss the topic.

Thank you.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 09:00 AM
link   
reply to post by Durden
 


You have thus far refused to offer your opinion on the topic or subtopic that developed; instead you insist on continuing to discuss me as a personality, laboring over throw-away lines rather than the point of my post:


However, if we are not alone and extraterrestrials are visiting the Earth, I doubt it is anything near what the the "typical" UFO believer thinks. I think the truth would be closer to something out of the imagination of an HP Lovecraft, Stainslaw Lem or a John Wyndham.


Again, the topic is not me; please do not continue to derail the thread. Do you have an opinion on the subjects being discussed?



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 11:27 AM
link   
Mornin' GAOTU789!


Originally posted by GAOTU789
Morning/afternoon/evening folks.

Let's stick to the subject of the thread please, which is....

Air Force Report : UFOs are From Other Planets.


Lets stay way from discussing each other and discuss the topic.

Thank you.


And thank you!!

Getting back to the subject at hand; I think this article, or its theme is yet another example (or a reminder) that regardless of what the Air Force said "publicly," what was going on behind the scenes was in direct contradiction to that dogma.

Cheers,
Frank



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 12:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
You have thus far refused to offer your opinion on the topic or subtopic that developed; instead you insist on continuing to discuss me as a personality, laboring over throw-away lines rather than the point of my post:


Well, my posts have not been directed at your person, but rather your words/claims in this very thread. So I believe if you feel my responses are off topic, then I suppose what I've responded to would be off topic as well wouldn't you say?

And still you avoid responding to the questions raised.

But seemingly, you appear quite contempt with the fact that you've not only blurted out complete nonsense in this very thread but infantile name-calling as well.


Again, the topic is not me; please do not continue to derail the thread. Do you have an opinion on the subjects being discussed?


In the light of the obvious lack of argument we're playing the little moderator now, are we? Well then I suppose you should also realize an apology on your part is in order.


Originally posted by GAOTU789
Morning/afternoon/evening folks.

Let's stick to the subject of the thread please, which is....


Well I'm certainly not here to do otherwise. I also do believe this to be an interesting topic, so my deepest apologies if anyone has been even remotely distracted by my postings at this point.

[edit on 15/2/09 by Durden]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 12:59 PM
link   
Thank you for sharing that article mr.warren. The main problem here is that the alleged report was "destroyed" if it ever existed because this top secret report was ordered destroyed we have no proof it ever existed other than this doctors word and my question would be how did the doctor get knowledge of a top secret document?

without proof it is just another unsubstantiated claim much like any personal experience. It is good to gather the reports but you cannot accept any of them as truth because you just cannot know for certain if it ever happened.

THen again proof is a funny thing it always comes down to someones opinion or word.. even if a report existed it was just the conclusions that a man or a handful of people came up with what makes their opinons any more valid than any other witness?



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 01:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

As much is said in the documents found by Phage and Slayer. It is clear they sought to write off sightings they could not readily explain; though I suspect it may be for very different reasons, given the atmosphere of the day, than you seem to be implying.


Think about this regarding these reports.

In those years, which was right after a very intense and costly war, the military, as well as the government, was not in any real practical position to deal with outer world visitors, plus keeping the public at ease at the same time. Remember, the mindset was still very gullable in the public realm and remembered the incident with the radio broadcast of the mid 30's War Of The Worlds, which threw a huge mass of the people into a panic dispite the fact that at the begining of that program, it was clearly stated that it was a radio opera show.

Regardless of that, the government and military had to develop a system of dealing with this issue while keeping the panic level of the populace low. The government and military were well aware of what they were dealing with, it was just a huge problem for them to explain it in a manner that would not literally cause another WOTW panic, which in those years, it would have had the government and military said "yes we are being visited by aliens in incredibly advanced craft".

The learning curve and explanations of that time were not just intended for the public, but for the government and military as well to give them time to study the issue closely without causing a major panic.

As time went on, and as the issue was better understood, those projects were closed down since they were no longer needed. Government and military officials now had the information they needed to fully comprehend what both the implications would be, and the aspect of having to deal with potential hostility.

As those years progressed, and as more information was gathered, as well as evidence and hardware, they did not need to explain anything to anyone, thus basically closed the door, locked it and from that point out, have denied everything, all the while dealing with the issue and more. They now had the means and ablity to deal with the potential for hostility and had the knowledge base to build upon the information gathered to develop much of what we see and do not see in their "toys in the attic", or underground bunkers or whatever you want to call it.

Keep in mind that many ancient civilizations seen UFO's have seen aliens, and have documented these encounters in text, paintings, cave art, glyphs and in general art peices. That alone should be enough evidence to anyone that they are in fact real, do exsist and do visit this planet often, if not on a regular basis.

The one thing that the ancinet documents and art work do not tell us is that their populations went nuts over these encounters. Quite the opposite. They show that there was interaction, exchanges, communication, and quite possibly influence.

To me, it seems that our distant ancient heritage was far more capable of dealing with the ET/UFO issue than modern man is. And I believe the reason for that is because of the attitude taken by the government and military since the late 40's and ever since. For decades people have been taught that its rediculous, outragious, bogus, and every other mudane explanation thrown out there, from swamp gas to flock of birds to space junk to lens anomaly.

Denial is the worst enemy to bear on reality. When you envelop yourself and a populace in a wrapping of denial, the impact of reality thereafter becomes so negative to the paradyme and status quo that its easier to just accept the denial and mudane excuses than it is to face reality for what it is.

Brookings recommended a slow and steady information campaign to educate the public about these issues. However, that plan has been abused and the issue thrown deeper into the denial and mudane excuse bucket. A perfect way to "keep it to ourselves" method to write off these realities. Keep us in the dark persay.

However with the advent of handycams, the internet, the exchange of information in seconds across the world, it is now far more difficult to hide the truth. Government and military knows this all too well, hence the various campaigns across the net and across forums to attempt to thwart this exchange of information. Over the last couple of decades, the old players have been comming forth, some on their deathbeds to tell the truth about what was seen, handled, and experienced.

As the evidence builds up against the keepers of the cool stuff, it will soon be even more difficult for them to hide the truth simply because that truth will make itself known, on its own without the government, military or Brookings help.

Eventually it will happen, and must happen. It is mankinds destiny to know reality for what it is, not for what someone wants it to be.

Keeping an open mind is your key to being able to handle it when it does happen. It will be less of a shock to your paradyme for when that day does come when some huge ship parks in orbit or when alien contact is made in the public venue. Its ok to be skeptical, but to be completely closed minded is only going to make it that much harder on those that remain...in the dark.



Cheers!!!!

[edit on 15-2-2009 by RFBurns]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 01:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by NephraTari
even if a report existed it was just the conclusions that a man or a handful of people came up with what makes their opinons any more valid than any other witness?

True, in the absence of anything else than a person's words that's the ever existent problem here. But I'd say surely the perceived credibility of sources do differ quite a bit.

[edit on 15/2/09 by Durden]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:51 PM
link   
Good Day NephraTari!


Originally posted by NephraTari
Thank you for sharing that article mr.warren.


Your welcome.


The main problem here is that the alleged report was "destroyed" if it ever existed because this top secret report was ordered destroyed we have no proof it ever existed other than this doctors word and my question would be how did the doctor get knowledge of a top secret document?


There is "other evidence"; however, I would argue that even if a copy of the "Estimate of The Situation" was in the public domain, the logomachy would be about it's authenticity. In short it wouldn't matter!

Separately, in order for a top secret document to be destroyed, it must be "declassified"; in order to declassify a document another paper trail is initiated. An archivist once told me that one may not be able to find "the animal" one is searching for; however, in regards to "documents" there is always a trail, or part thereof that can't be erased in it's entirety.

Most Ufologist have known about the "Estimate of The Situation" since 1956 when Capt Ed Ruppelt (one time head of Project Blue Book) wrote about it in his book, The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects, so Zander's knowledge of it, and or making comment is nothing unusual.

Ruppelt in part he wrote:

"In intelligence, if you have something to say about some vital problem you write a report that is known as an 'Estimate of the Situation' . . . the people at ATIC decided that thwe time had arrived to make an 'Estimate of the Situation.' The situation was the UFO's; the estimate was that they were interplanetary!"

Ruppelt described it in detail, saw it, read it etc., and also stated that a few copies weren't destroyed.

Personally, given his position e.g., head of Blue Book etc., his declaration is good enough for me.


without proof it is just another unsubstantiated claim much like any personal experience. It is good to gather the reports but you cannot accept any of them as truth because you just cannot know for certain if it ever happened.


Again I would argue that at the end of the day it wouldn't matter if the file surfaced or not; lines would be drawn, skeptics, or more accurately debunkers would come out and question its authenticity etc. The only difference pertaining to this discussion is the we would be talking about that . . . "is it real?"


THen again proof is a funny thing it always comes down to someones opinion or word.. even if a report existed it was just the conclusions that a man or a handful of people came up with what makes their opinons any more valid than any other witness?


Bingo!

Cheers,
Frank



new topics

top topics



 
17
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join