Rapelay virtual rape game banned by Amazon

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Oh and i never said...

No you didn't and if you care to notice, my post was not directed to you, contained no reply tag to you, and was addressed to no ATS member specifically.

On an end note, I am pleased to see you at least acknowledge the game as being sick.

[edit on 2/14/2009 by AshleyD]

I acknowledged the game was sick pages back and you chose not to read it. I agreed earlier when it was called twisted. I stated i cannot find words strong enough to say how i feel about this game. Yet i still support the freedom of people to make it.

It would be great if we had a game that taught kids how to have interpersonal relationships where both parties benefit from the outcome.

It would be great to have a game that taught kids how to solve problems using logic and the scientific method.

It would be great if we had a game that taught kids to respect the property of others.

It would be great if we had a game that taught kids the value of money and how to save it for a rainy day.

It would be great to have a game that taught kids to respect their teachers.

It would be great if we had a game that taught kids responsibility.

BUT A GAME LIKE THAT WOULD NOT BE ANY FUN WOULD IT?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


The slippery slope argument you are using is a logical fallacy, just so you know.

"OMG!! If we make laws against murder, the next thing you know the NWO will be telling us we cant wear pink panties! Oh the horror!"

Get a grip. Not everyone is arguing that those who play the game will then go out and rape someone. Some of us are arguing that allowing games where the victimization of a class of people, be they ethnic minorities or a gender, DOES hurt people. It hurts the members of that class of people who have to see representations of their own kind being tortured or killed or raped for fun. Or ads for it, or over hear conversations about how fun it is. It sends a message not just to the players of the games, but to the members of that class of people. If you dont think that harms people, including the people who are so little that they internalize these ideas of their own group as "subhuman" then it is because you refuse to look at history and how allowing any class of people to be treated as subhuman has impacted both the class who is being degraded and the class of people being treated as superior. How you label someone DOES impact how you see and treat them.

en.wikipedia.org...

Prisoners and guards rapidly adapted to their roles, stepping beyond the boundaries of what had been predicted and leading to dangerous and psychologically damaging situations. One-third of the guards were judged to have exhibited "genuine" sadistic tendencies, while many prisoners were emotionally traumatized and two had to be removed from the experiment early. After a graduate student (prisoner #819) broke down from the inhumane conditions in the prison,[2] and realizing that he had been passively allowing unethical acts to be performed under his direct supervision, Zimbardo concluded that both prisoners and guards had become too grossly absorbed in their roles and terminated the experiment after six days.

Ethical concerns surrounding the famous experiment often draw comparisons to the Milgram experiment, which was conducted in 1961 at Yale University by Stanley Milgram, Zimbardo's former college friend. Tom Peters and Robert H. Waterman Jr wrote in 1981 that the Milgram experiment and the Stanford prison experiment were frightening in their implications about the danger which lurks in the darker side of human nature.[3

Making rape illegal has not made consensual sex illegal. Making snuff films and child porn illegal has not made all porn illegal. Stop pretending that your hysterical argument makes any sense at all. And the way we label people does have an impact on how we view and treat them.

Things are already bad for females in our culture. Attitudes that everyone knows are discriminatory when applied to ethnic groups are still commonly (and depressingly frequently) applied to women. Even some of the posters on your "pro rapeplay" site noted that. But the underlying logic of their conclusion is what strikes me as absurd. It sums up to "women are already demeaned in advertising, therefore demeaning them further in video games should be ok."

Brilliant.

reply to post by groingrinder


I'm sure all those games exist in some form or another. Anything imaginable is out there.

I've only read the first page but considering some of the replies I'm guessing no one here is a fan of guro...which is sad because guro is pretty awesome.

Anyway I don't think there's much of a reason to get your panties in a twist about it. No real person is getting hurt it's just pixels.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I think your taking the whole female rights thing too far with this rape game. If you read my research you would see all kinds of things are out there, and have been for many years, including gay rape hentai where the viewers are mostly women

I think your trying to defend women too much and that's blinding your judgment. While there are so much other sick stuff out there, you only focus on the woman getting raped.

Even real life porn has women, beating the crap out of men, making them their slaves as some sort of strange fetish.

So how can this be about men not caring about women etc, when women ALSO play these games, and also enjoy playing gay rape games.......

This is NOT some sort of agenda to desentisize people, dehumanise women, or that men don't give a crap about women etc.

It is SIMPLY fantasies made into games/comics/movies. Nothing more, nothing less.

Think up any fetish, any fantasy and it WILL be out there. For men AND women


[edit on 14-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I acknowledged the game was sick pages back and you chose not to read it.

Do you enjoy twisting everything I say? I NEVER said you did not acknowledge it was at least sick. I simply chose to finally bring it up in my last comment to you as a means to an end of our exchange. I focused on your 'it's freedom of speech' and 'slippery slope' angle. Just because I don't respond to every little thing you say from all of your posts does not mean I 'chose not to read it.'

[edit on 2/14/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


You are comparing real life to a virtual one and you call my argument fallacious? Then you go on to this degrading women, well check some posts back you'll find someone posted that games exist that portray the rape of men also so it's a pretty even field apparently.

This whole degrading women thing is just not going to work as an argument against a fictitious character in a game. I suppose you're also against S&M pornography as it degrades women even though you can find the roles reversed and the man in the submissive role. It's a very blinkered view some people have where they only get offended by one side.

Saying that it is a slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy it is a historical truth. The censors always start on the things people are happy to do away with, then they start on something people are ok with but could do without, then they go further and further.

However forgetting that argument i can simply go for the free speech one. Any idea is protected under free speech as long as it doesn't directly harm someone. You might think this game harms someone but i would say that the kind of person who plays it is already slightly odd. That's a personal view but i think they are.

You may be sitting in the office (if you work in an office) and the person next to you plays this game and yet acts normally in every other part of their life. Maybe it just fills a slightly warped hole in their life and if it fills it and makes them happy then that's fine and the game should be protected under free speech.

I don't like it, but that's how it is.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
I acknowledged the game was sick pages back and you chose not to read it.

Do you enjoy twisting everything I say? I NEVER said you did not acknowledge it was at least sick. I simply chose to finally bring it up in my last comment to you as a means to an end of our exchange. I focused on your 'it's freedom of speech' and 'slippery slope' angle.

Fair enough if you meant it that way, i wasn't twisting words that's just how they seemed to me at the time. Very easy mistake to make when the internet doesn't include tone of voice.

The freedom thing is addressed in my above post but the reply is to another poster.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Really good point. And I understand you are not advocating actually doing such things- just making a point how many men in this world think rape is really not that big of a deal when a woman is the victim. However, suddenly their cringe-factor wakes up when it is a man who is the victim.

Indeed. Look at the differential outrage when male children are sexually molested as opposed to when it is female children.

And note that this is the case even when women evaluate abuse to some degree. Societies shared acceptance or rejection of certain acts and behaviors doesnt only impact the people who are on the beneficial side, it impacts the way victims see themselves too.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Things are already bad for females in our culture. Attitudes that everyone knows are discriminatory when applied to ethnic groups are still commonly (and depressingly frequently) applied to women. Even some of the posters on your "pro rapeplay" site noted that. But the underlying logic of their conclusion is what strikes me as absurd. It sums up to "women are already demeaned in advertising, therefore demeaning them further in video games should be ok."

Brilliant.

I'm sorry, my "pro rapeplay" site? I never referenced a pro rapeplay site, another user did and i commented on it. Please don't refer to it as mine. Also i didn't see that as the underlying logic, i think you're so obsessed with this issue you are overlaying your preformed ideas.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Indeed. Look at the differential outrage when male children are sexually molested as opposed to when it is female children.

And note that this is the case even when women evaluate abuse to some degree. Societies shared acceptance or rejection of certain acts and behaviors doesnt only impact the people who are on the beneficial side, it impacts the way victims see themselves too.

Again we are talking about a game and not reality and to keep bringing it back to real life situations is absurd. Oh and any abuse, whether it is male or female is wrong and maybe we should stop seeing them as two camps.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Are you serious?

Men are always shocked by rape, some even more than women. They want to kill the rapists..

And I have not noticed any difference in a child girl or boy getting raped by a man having any affect on shock factor. People are shocked wether they are male or female.

In fact women sleeping with younger boys in not as much of a big deal, people say things like "dude I wish I had a teacher like that when I was his age" "coool he got lucky!" But when a man sleeps witha young girl, it becomes HUGE.

So yeah I'm confused lol.



[edit on 14-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

If you play these games, or want to play these games. You should be locked up and treated with electro shock therapy untill those thoughts are withdrawn from your personality (along with how knows what else you will loose) for ever, untill you rot in your grave.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by JbT]

Originally posted by JbT
If you play these games, or want to play these games. You should be locked up and treated with electro shock therapy.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

So hang on we're now going to lock people up for what they're thinking? Do any of you understand the basis of freedom?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Ya, if you have RAPE thoughts, and then act them out in a game, you need to be locked up.

YES.

You heard me right, YES. Also read me edit above, I added to it.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by JbT]

It's fair to say that video games are a waste of time. When viewing life through an introspective lens.

What can you experience from a simulation? It's not real. Anything it provides is fake.

It's a shell. Lock yourself in that shell all you want. You only live once.

reply to post by JbT


Then you need to lock pretty much the entire population up because studies have shown that everyone, actually everyone has violent thoughts on some level. Whether it is punching your boss, flashes of murderous thought and especially in males, dominance based sexual fantasies. I'm going to go and try and find the study i read that estimated 60% of males had had a rape fantasy during their lifetime. Might take a while as it was years back but i'm determined to try and find that one now.

Locking people up for what they think is the sort of thing Stalin did and that isn't an exaggeration. It happens today in China for gods sake and you are saying that's what you want?

Originally posted by JbT
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Ya, if you have RAPE thoughts, and then act them out in a game, you need to be locked up.

YES.

You heard me right, YES

I'm pretty sure some people who play the game don't have rape thoughts. But they have rape thoughts towards the fantasy pixel women on screen. Some even don't play it for the rape. Just for the 3d scenes.

I've read a few things about how they feel about Hentai women and real women. They don't relate real women to hentai women. The hentai women are so unreal in character anyway. It's like another dimension.


[edit on 14-2-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
It's fair to say that video games are a waste of time. When viewing life through an introspective lens.

What can you experience from a simulation? It's not real. Anything it provides is fake.

It's a shell. Lock yourself in that shell all you want. You only live once.

Well the hijackers on 9/11 certainly learned a lot from a flight simulator (game) so they can obviously teach you something. Games can teach, especially the strategy kind as anyone having to think up strategies has to control multiple things in their mind and lay them down in sequence. That strategy mindset can be applied to any real life situation, just with fewer laser turrets

Originally posted by JbT
Ya, if you have RAPE thoughts, and then act them out in a game, you need to be locked up.

YES.

You heard me right, YES

So if someone has MURDER thoughts, then go shoot someone in GTA IV they should be locked up?

Hentai games are a fact: there's many, MANY of them... Rapelay is not the worst and I'm sure its not the last.

The irony is that most of them should be considered rape against your computer, poor engines, crappy graphics and the only thing stiff is animations.