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Obama Supporters, Why Supporter A CFR Member?

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posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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How can you Obama supporters support a man who has LIED about his CFR membership?

Obama's CFR Membership

Obama LYING About His CFR Membership:


Who Are The CFR? What Is The NAU?:


Obama's NWO Speech (all the "great" presidents have had one):


Henry Kissenger Tells The Truth (for the first time):


Obama is NWO, NAU, CFR scum, he is no better than Bush, Obama=Bush, Bush=Obama, they both are striving for the same goal, to f-up the world as subtly and quickly as possible without causing too much of a stink.

So why? Why in the world do you people support this guy? Because he chanted "Hope" and "Change" and "Yes We Can"? Because he's a snazzy dresser? Because he has a pleasant voice? His policies are vitriol and horrific! Yet you love this guy, some of you even worship him, why?

So tell me, why vote for a lying CFR member? Someone pushing for a NWO?

That's not change, that's more of the same!

-Lahara




posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 01:22 AM
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reply to post by TheRandom1
 


I would have to disagree with you. Even not considering the whole CFR thing, enough of us know that he is bad news that the gun shops are having a hard time keeping ammo in stock. They are experiencing record profits, and can hardly keep up with the demand.

Many people did not vote for him, and are nervous. Hopefully that is of some comfort.

So many people are so nervous right now, that I would have to wonder HOW he got enough votes to win.

Bush comes to mind... Then again, I actually did know a few people that voted for Bush.... Where the Obama votes came from? I have no idea, but remember videos of interviews with supporters that thought Palin was his running-mate and stuff like that.

Good luck to all.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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You know I've seen that first video b4 and I just now realized the oddness of using a handshake as Obama's joke. -- Why a handshake? Probably nothing but perhaps it was a secretive ritual he is familiar with.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by LostNemesis
reply to post by TheRandom1
 


I would have to disagree with you.


I'm kinda confused, it seems like you're agreeing with me?

Also, offtopic, is your name Keri? You look like an old friend of mine.

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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Obama and the Bildebergers - proof

The evidence about Obama and the Bildebergers is very entensive.
Even more so then him and the CFR.



[edit on 2/13/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


So why, considering the MASSIVE amount of data on this guy, do they continue to support this man? Is it the same reason why Bush supporters support Bush (which I know no other reason than the, rooting for a team, mindset)?

I hope and pray that one day people will wake up from there slumber and see the truth, there is no savior politician that will ever come into power as a president that will really CHANGE things.

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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TheRandom1,

I received your U2U and will do my best to answer your thread from my point of view. But I’m not interested in arguing about it. So, I won’t do that.


Let me start by saying that there’s nothing wrong with conspiracy theories. That’s kind of the bread and butter of this board. And there are some that I really believe have merit. But I don’t believe every one I hear. I’m not “eager to believe”. Rather, I remain pragmatic and skeptical about conspiracies. I must be convinced to a strong degree to believe, and that requires a certain amount of evidence and even proof.

A conspiracy is like a house of cards. Too many times, I see one card missing and people substitute it or skip over it by suspending belief and jumping on to the next card. They do this over and over until they have a complete picture (with lots of holes) and then they consider it evidence or proof. That takes away from the credibility of the valid conspiracies out there that have all the cards in place. When everything is a conspiracy, then nothing is the truth.

Data is nothing. Only when it's organized and fits together without gaps, does it become information.

I’ll address each of your videos.

1. That the CFR is a “bad” thing is a conspiracy theory. I haven’t seen any proof that it is indeed a nefarious organization. I know there are a lot of theories and spooky insinuations (just as with the Bilderbergers) but, as I have an atheistic point of view on life, I’m not inclined to believe that which has not been proven to me. So, whether or not Obama is a member of the CFR is of very little consequence to me. I have no indication that he lied about his membership. Since you’re making the accusation, where is your proof that he’s lying when he says he’s not sure if he’s an official member or not?

2. The same holds true for the NAU. That it’s some sort of scheme to erase the borders and merge our countries together and start using the same monetary system is also a conspiracy. Yes, there are some people who want a single world government, and some may be members of the CFR, but that doesn’t mean that the organization or everyone who is a member is working toward that goal.

According to your NAU movie, I should have already been required to carry an RFID card for a year now… and I’m not. There are so many suppositions and deductions made on flimsy evidence, but when supplemented with the spooky music, scary pictures and chilling narration, I’m not too surprised that a lot of conspiracy theorists believe it. I just need something concrete. Not some “friend” of some Rockefeller on an audiotape (is it really him?) who may be fulfilling a personal vendetta against someone else for all I know.

Secondly, the word globalization can really mean a lot of different things. And socially, it wouldn’t hurt us a bit to become more global, in my opinion. The imaginary lines we have drawn on the earth have shifted over time and they serve no constructive purpose but to keep us separate. They cause selfishness, greed, possessiveness and war.

3. Everything Obama said in his so-called “New World Order” speech is true and I agree with it. Change is happening. We are all together on this rock. And we need to learn how to have partnerships and cooperation with other countries. Not merge into one amorphous blob, but to have good, healthy relations with other countries, based on respect and mutual benefit. Some people feel threatened by this, as if we’ll lose something. Some people are afraid of change on this scale, but it’s happening. Our technology has made the world a fairly small place and if we can’t learn to “tear down the walls” and live peacefully with each other, we will always be at war.

4. As far as what Kissinger said, like “globalization”, the phrase “New World Order” is ancient and has been used for many years to reference a new age of dramatic change in the world of political thought and the stability between nations. That’s right. The USA might no longer be the world’s “most powerful nation”, but just one really great country, living in peace among other really great countries in the world. I don’t like the arrogance of the US being “the best” or “number one” or any of that. I am a proud, patriotic American who believes firmly in our Constitution and what the founding fathers intended for us, and I love my country, but we are no better than anyone else.

Finally:

Conspiracy theories are held together by tenuous links between people (a friend of a friend) and quotes taken out of context or given entirely new meaning by insinuation. That’s why it’s imperative that we cover all the bases. And as far as I’m concerned, there are very few bases covered here. There are holes throughout these theories. Some are quite large. And I’m not inclined to take that jump over the holes without covering them in.

So, in short, why do I support Obama? I have said here many times that I agree with the majority of his policies. That’s it. It’s not about chants of "Hope" or "Change" and "Yes We Can". It’s not because of his clothes or his voice and I don’t worship him. You say his policies are vitriol and horrific, but I disagree completely.

In recent years, I’ve seen a huge push in our society to stand firm on one’s beliefs and consider everyone who believes differently to be wrong, bad and even evil. You’re either with us or against us. I have resisted the temptation to buy into this way of thinking.

That’s all this is about. We disagree - and it doesn’t seem that you can accept that simple truth, so you load up accusations of cults and worship, chants and being asleep. When all that’s going on is that we disagree. I can accept that. Can you?


[edit on 14-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


First I would like to say, thankyou for answering my request and participating in my thread.

I posted the link about his confirmed membership in the CFR in my original post, you may have missed it so here it is again:

www.cfr.org...

I would love to believe that Obama is going to save our country and make it better, but I see things that it seems a lot of people can't see.

You say that you are skeptical when it comes to conspiracy theories, but it seems like you defend whatever this guy says or does, or make an excuse, you see that is part of the us verses them mentality, that is not good, we are all human beings, all equal, but for some reason people here in the states are part of what I like to call "The America Religion", where they think that America is the best place, that there is no better country, that everything it does is good and true, much like how people view God, well, people who take sides politically (such as the R's And D's) think that they are right and they will fight and make excuses for that belief, now I don't subscribe to any and all conspiracy theories that come about in politics (such as I don't believe Obama is the AntiChrist, but if he calls down fire from heaven, I'm getting outta here lol), but there are some things that I do believe because I see and UNDERSTAND the proof that they offer because of my own personal experience with what is being proposed.

I see Obama in the same way I see Bush, they're both government mascots supporting the same old same old that has been going on forever, even the sacred Regan lol, however Obama is far more, manipulative, than Bush. You see Obama does the EXACT same thing that I see many Pentecostal preachers do, he's almost like an evangelist in his ways, I used to go to a church that had a pastor that talked almost exactly the same way Obama does, it's called NLP and many politicians do it, Obama has a hard time free styling the NLP though I notice.

Also, when Kissinger said NWO, he meant exactly what it's meant ever since it's had it's meaning, he means one world government, everyone is aware of the phrase and it's meaning, Bush has said it too, as well as other presidents, it means only one thing, One World Government.


In recent years, I’ve seen a huge push in our society to stand firm on one’s beliefs and consider everyone who believes differently to be wrong, bad and even evil. You’re either with us or against us. I have resisted the temptation to buy into this way of thinking.

That’s all this is about. We disagree - and it doesn’t seem that you can accept that simple truth, so you load up accusations of cults and worship, chants and being asleep. When all that’s going on is that we disagree. I can accept that. Can you?


Lol, I see things, I dont make accusations because I "disagree", I'm not a republican, I'm not a democrat, I'm a human who sees things going on that many refuse to see. I only accuse people of things that I see them doing, not just contrive an idea, but I have literally heard people on this forum (bald champion I believe was there name) talking about how they make there children say prayers to Obama, sorry, but that is wrong to do, people have also called him the Messiah, there are many things I see people do that raises a red flag to me, much like my parents blind faith in Bush.

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 10:09 PM
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I will always love whatever issues link with Obama. I know he deserves the position being the new president.



---------------------
designer’s wallet



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by dawnzky05
 


Wow, did I just get spammed (your crappy link)?

Obama may be president, but he is not keeping his promises, the good ones that is, only time will tell if he keeps his bad promises (the "Citizen Security Force").

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by TheRandom1
I would love to believe that Obama is going to save our country and make it better, but I see things that it seems a lot of people can't see.


No, you choose to see things your way, not necessarily what other people agree to. This is what you dont get. Im not eye to eye with McCain or Ron Paul, but then again my disagreements with the man dont allow me to expect others to be the same.

As BH said, we disagree. The "you either with us or against us" mentality is little more than trolling. We'r in a financial crises which in my opinion goes beyond simple "tax cuts" and we have president that is barely a month into his term, and the last administration swept under the rug by you fellas in the name of partisanship. I hardly think the OP has any care in the world for the real issues at hand.


You say that you are skeptical when it comes to conspiracy theories, but it seems like you defend whatever this guy says or does, or make an excuse,


No, there is skeptism when somebody comes up with his or her conspiracy that offers little to no evidence, is very one sided and is personally motivated. Its when the minute somebody questions your motives, or the fact the conspiracy offers no structure behind it, you get all defensive and start accusing that individual exactly behind what your doing.

This is a conspiracy website, true, but that doesnt mean your outward theories wont be met without question.


you see that is part of the us verses them mentality


What are you and the others on this website doing now? When somebody disagrees with your conspiracies that offer little evidence and are personally and politically motivated, you refer to them as "sheeple" or "messiah followers". You folks go so far as to label every single supporter as having no reason to support a belief opposing to yours. When will this hypocrisy end?


that is not good, we are all human beings, all equal, but for some reason people here in the states are part of what I like to call "The America Religion", where they think that America is the best place, that there is no better country, that everything it does is good and true, much like how people view God, well, people who take sides politically (such as the R's And D's) think that they are right and they will fight and make excuses for that belief, now I don't subscribe to any and all conspiracy theories that come about in politics (such as I don't believe Obama is the AntiChrist, but if he calls down fire from heaven, I'm getting outta here lol), but there are some things that I do believe because I see and UNDERSTAND the proof that they offer because of my own personal experience with what is being proposed.


The issue of the "us them" mentality goes beyond the Ds and the Rs, infact I think that attitude is more worse when looking at some in the conspiracy community. We have folks generalizing and labelling everybody in the same batch because they dont believe theres an NWO, or that all government is bad but the great Ron Paul. This mentality should not be restricted to liberals or conservatives. That kind of mentality is actually verymuch evident in the individuals who post these conspiracies without any objectivity to them. Such mentality should not be allowed to flourish, anywhere.

You got that right, we are all equal despite our differences... so lets walk the talk as well.


I see Obama in the same way I see Bush, they're both government mascots supporting the same old same old that has been going on forever, even the sacred Regan lol,


The nation is split, and the elections showed this clearly. Obama only got around 7% or so to win the presidency... the 2000 elections were more so. The thing is, we are at an history changing crises where it is most favourable for ideologies to clash, and thats exactly whats happening. I bet you if McCain, or Clinton, or even Paul himself were elected, there would be this split down the middle. Now is not the time and place to put partisanship or personal ideological beliefs before the good of the country. We are all going to have buckle up and compromise somewhere if we are to get out of this mess.


however Obama is far more, manipulative, than Bush.


Over the years Iv learned to give the presidents their term before I start mapping out their administration. Folks are jumping the gun because they never liked man from the beginning and obviously have their shoes firmly in the ground of their ideology. In addition the past 8years made many of us assume "all of them must be the same if that one lied" and that simply isnt true.

Its only been afew months since the elections, and emotions are still high. It is time though we start thinking a little more objectively.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by TheRandom1
I posted the link about his confirmed membership in the CFR in my original post, you may have missed it so here it is again:


No, I didn't miss it. I know he's listed as a member. But what he said is that he didn't know if he was an official member or not. It's possible that he didn't know. It's also possible that he lied. Either way, it doesn't matter to me that he's a member and I'm not surprised if a politician lied. Are you? I tend to think he really didn't know because it's something that could be easily checked, especially by the guy who asked a question about it.



I see things that it seems a lot of people can't see.


Really? Don't you think everyone might feel that way about themselves? Their perspective, their point of view, their context is more "aligned" or something? That's where we get our differing opinions. We ALL see things other people don't see. That's where our individual viewpoints come from.



You say that you are skeptical when it comes to conspiracy theories, but it seems like you defend whatever this guy says or does,


It may seem like that to you. But it's not true. I have been pretty critical of a few things he's done. And a lot of the time, I'm not defending what he's done, but debating the conclusions people come to. For example, I disagree with the current stimulus bill and I strongly disagree with bailouts in general, but when people here say he broke a promise by not having it on the Internet for 48 hours or 5 days, I debated that because there was actually a waiver for this bill and it was an emergency bill, which is exempt from the 5-day promise. That doesn't mean I agree with the bill or I'm defending the bill. It just means I don't think he broke his promise.

I do not defend whatever he says or does. And I disagree with some of his policies and have said so here. I still support him as our president, though. He's not doing anything differently that he said he would. I am not surprised and I have no reason to think otherwise.


but there are some things that I do believe because I see and UNDERSTAND the proof that they offer because of my own personal experience with what is being proposed.


I get that you see things the way you see them. That's ok by me.

I see things the way I see them. Is it ok by you?



Also, when Kissinger said NWO, he meant exactly what it's meant ever since it's had it's meaning, he means one world government, everyone is aware of the phrase and it's meaning, Bush has said it too, as well as other presidents, it means only one thing, One World Government.


I'm sorry, but you sound like you're seeing the world through a paper towel tube. It may mean only one thing to you, but the rest of the planet thinks something different.

New World Order
New World Order (conspiracy theory)


I see things,


Dude. We all see things.



I'm not a republican, I'm not a democrat


Neither am I. I've never belonged to a political party in my 51 years.



I'm a human who sees things going on that many refuse to see.


You think that about yourself and that's cool. But when you're ready to realize that we ALL have our unique perspectives and can reason and are as smart as you, then you'll start REALLY seeing things.



(bald champion I believe was there name) talking about how they make there children say prayers to Obama,


He was messing with you! I know him. He's got that kind of sense of humor. He said that because he knew it would bug people. He was kidding.

Look, as long as you think all Obama supporters are alike, then you're as prejudiced as someone who thinks all black people are alike. Maybe you should open your eyes a little wider and realize that there really are people out there who are intelligent and articulate and who have researched Obama and his policies and they decided to support him because they like him.

I'm not asking you to give up your conspiracies about Obama. But you might want to stop looking down your nose at his supporters thinking they're all just stupid and can't "see things" like you can. Just a suggestion. Because I can see things just fine.



[edit on 15-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Look, as long as you think all Obama supporters are alike, then you're as prejudiced as someone who thinks all black people are alike. Maybe you should open your eyes a little wider and realize that there really are people out there who are intelligent and articulate and who have researched Obama and his policies and they decided to support him because they like him.

I'm not asking you to give up your conspiracies about Obama. But you might want to stop looking down your nose at his supporters thinking they're all just stupid and can't "see things" like you can. Just a suggestion. Because I can see things just fine.



[edit on 15-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]


Hold on, how did racism come into this?

Did I ever say I hated Blacks?
No.

Did I bring it up?
No.

Did I even reference or infer it?
No.

So why bring up skin color (one of the most silliest, trivial things)?
It looks as though you are attempting to paint me as a racist in a very subtle way, by comparing a view that you claim I have with a racist equivalent.
Let's say for example that I did think that all Obama supporters are the same, well you come along and make an argument that I am just as prejudice as a racist (or shorten what you had said), well now the reader thinks "The OP is a racist and hates Obama because he's black" in the back of there mind because you have equated my views (even though they are not my views with a racists views) with a racists views (though not directly). I'm not saying that you are trying to do this on purpose, but I think what it is, is that you are programmed into the mindset that was shown on the every news channel that the election was about "race", so your comparison to the views (that are not mine) to the whole racism bs is exactly that, you may not even realize what you did, but you did do it because of that, trust me on this, I know NLP when I see it and you subconsciously passed some on.

Also, I never said all Obama supporters are alike, I work with an Obama supporter, we get along just fine, she's a pretty smart woman and one of the few people at work I actually like, she has interesting stories to tell and she's very excepting of other people and there view points, the republicans at work are narrow minded and are homophobes (for some reason I give off a homovibe or something).

I never said I think Obama supporters are all stupid, never once in my posting said that all Obama supporters are stupid, never once.


No, I didn't miss it. I know he's listed as a member. But what he said is that he didn't know if he was an official member or not. It's possible that he didn't know. It's also possible that he lied. Either way, it doesn't matter to me that he's a member and I'm not surprised if a politician lied. Are you? I tend to think he really didn't know because it's something that could be easily checked, especially by the guy who asked a question about it.


Notice what I have in bold, if you support a president that does not know if he's part of a certain organization or not, then don't you think that person is not qualified to be president, to be what the majority of brainwashed americans think is "the highest office"? If it's something that could easily be checked, wouldn't he know that he's a member? Seriously, come on now, you see this is why I say you make up excuses for him, that is clearly an unreasonable excuse.
It's about like if I were president and it was well known that I am part of an assassins guild, then someone asks me about it, and I say "I don't know if I'm really a member or not" and just chuckle it off, lol, well that's obviously me trying to deflect the idea and lying about it.

Now I have a bit of a problem with the what you are inferring in that quote, you infer that I am out of touch with reality and that I don't know what's going on, you do this by stating "I'm not surprised if a politician lied. Are you?".


I get that you see things the way you see them. That's ok by me.

I see things the way I see them. Is it ok by you?


So are you saying that I shouldn't argue my point? That I shouldn't back up what I believe? That I should agree with you or anyone else that has your view, because my views are not okay with you, your views are not okay with me, you see I care more about what's real than this silly little football game that's going on, I have seen mountains of proof that the president is not a good guy, no matter who is president, they all press towards the same goal.

I really truely believe that the only reason why you support Obama is because he's a democrat and he keeps shouting, his little empty words "Hope", "Change" and "Yes We Can".


I'm sorry, but you sound like you're seeing the world through a paper towel tube. It may mean only one thing to you, but the rest of the planet thinks something different.


From the wiki link (something that anyone can edit).

"In international relations theory, the term "new world order" refers to a new period of history evidencing a dramatic change in world political thought and the balance of power."

"However, in conspiracy theory, the term "New World Order" refers to a hypothetical totalitarian one world government."

You see these two views are in fact one in the same, the balance of power shifts to a few, the few rule over the many, a totalitarian, one world government. They are in fact the same view, just worded differently.

Much like the difference between a human and a homosapien, there is no difference other than the way it's worded/spelled.


Neither am I. I've never belonged to a political party in my 51 years.


Really? Then what party have you voted for in the past 52 years, Republican? Democrat? I highly doubt you see party lines the way I do.

You see I have never voted for any candidate, because I know it's all a farce, I know it's all a lie, we do not choose who becomes the next mascot, that is something that they want us to believe, they want us to think we have some sorta choice, that we choose this person or that person, but we don't they choose them. Watch hacking democracy, you'll see what I've known for many years.

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by TheRandom1
Hold on, how did racism come into this?


I didn't say anything about racism. I said prejudice.



Prejudice
2 a (1): preconceived judgment or opinion (2): an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge


I believe you pre-judge Obama supporters. The rest of your post shows it.



if you support a president that does not know if he's part of a certain organization or not, then don't you think that person is not qualified to be president,


No. Knowing whether or not one is a member of something is not a qualification for the presidency.



I really truely believe that the only reason why you support Obama is because he's a democrat and he keeps shouting, his little empty words "Hope", "Change" and "Yes We Can".


And you say you're not prejudiced? OK. On what do you base the above judgment, then? If you're not prejudiced against Obama supporters, then what are the grounds for that judgment? What knowledge do you have about me that makes you believe the above judgment?


Then what party have you voted for in the past 52 years, Republican? Democrat? I highly doubt you see party lines the way I do.


I have voted Republican. Democrat, Independent and Libertarian. And I think I even voted Green one time. I don't vote for a party, I vote for the person. And not voting is nothing to brag about in my opinion.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by southern_Guardian
The "you either with us or against us" mentality is little more than trolling.


You seem to think that I support such a separatist mentality, I don't, that is something the government does to try and get people to fight each other, works pretty well eh?

I think you are confused on that, I actually quoted BH when I said that, stating that I do not believe in that mentality, you seem to be trolling since you are responding to a post that was not even directed to you.


We're in a financial crises which in my opinion goes beyond simple "tax cuts" and we have president that is barely a month into his term, and the last administration swept under the rug by you fellas in the name of partisanship. I hardly think the OP has any care in the world for the real issues at hand.


What the hell is that? who are these "you fellas" of which you speak? Are you effing blind? Did you ever read what I wrote? I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN! How many times do I have to say that before it gets through that fluoridated brain of yours!?!? I detest both parties, I think it's all a sham, a scam, but you, you seem to think that it's "us verses them", you are the epitome of "you're either with us or against us mentality".

Seriously, I'm going to report you to the mods if you dare call me a republican one more time, that's like calling me a "Mother F*****".

And also I care about the current financial crisis that the government cause, the one that BIG government cause a government that Obama wants to expand, tell me, how the eff does giving $30,000,000 to a mouse in the wetlands stimulate the economy? How the hell does that create jobs? What about increasing the public debt limit? This was Obamas idea genius, not mine, sure Bush got the ball rolling on the bailout craze, but the "stimulus package" will not and is not going to stimulate anything other than a few people's pockets, take your partisan bs somewhere else.


No, there is skeptism when somebody comes up with his or her conspiracy that offers little to no evidence, is very one sided and is personally motivated.


I have evidence, just read the OP and watch the vids, that is evidence, show me evidence that the opposite is true, counter my evidence with facts, I dare you to, I know you can't, show me links, articles, videos, any thing you can, other than just some bs statement that you pulled out of your arse, I DARE YOU TO!


Its when the minute somebody questions your motives, or the fact the conspiracy offers no structure behind it, you get all defensive and start accusing that individual exactly behind what your doing.


Are you talking about yourself? Seems that when I put forward evidence that you just up and spout off a bunch of defensive bs, I have structure, you don't so stop with the lies and excuses already.


This is a conspiracy website, true, but that doesnt mean your outward theories wont be met without question.


I expect them to be met with question, that's why I asked BH to participate lol, I wanted to see what she thinks.


What are you and the others on this website doing now? When somebody disagrees with your conspiracies that offer little evidence and are personally and politically motivated, you refer to them as "sheeple" or "messiah followers". You folks go so far as to label every single supporter as having no reason to support a belief opposing to yours. When will this hypocrisy end?


I don't know, but it seems it wont end with you though, you are politically motivated, everything you just said is politically motivated.



The issue of the "us them" mentality goes beyond the Ds and the Rs, infact I think that attitude is more worse when looking at some in the conspiracy community. We have folks generalizing and labelling everybody in the same batch because they dont believe theres an NWO, or that all government is bad but the great Ron Paul. This mentality should not be restricted to liberals or conservatives. That kind of mentality is actually verymuch evident in the individuals who post these conspiracies without any objectivity to them. Such mentality should not be allowed to flourish, anywhere.


You are no different, you label all republicans as this or that, you think that republicans cause the economic crisis, but it's actually been in the works for a very long time in fact. You are the "Garden of Eden" of that mentality that you so "profusely" detest.


The nation is split, and the elections showed this clearly. Obama only got around 7% or so to win the presidency... the 2000 elections were more so. The thing is, we are at an history changing crises where it is most favourable for ideologies to clash, and thats exactly whats happening. I bet you if McCain, or Clinton, or even Paul himself were elected, there would be this split down the middle. Now is not the time and place to put partisanship or personal ideological beliefs before the good of the country. We are all going to have buckle up and compromise somewhere if we are to get out of this mess.


Yes, the nation is split, it's what the government wants, they want us to be divided so our attention is diverted, much like how a magician redirects your attention for the reveal.


Over the years Iv learned to give the presidents their term before I start mapping out their administration. Folks are jumping the gun because they never liked man from the beginning and obviously have their shoes firmly in the ground of their ideology. In addition the past 8years made many of us assume "all of them must be the same if that one lied" and that simply isnt true.

Its only been afew months since the elections, and emotions are still high. It is time though we start thinking a little more objectively.


Who's emotions? You mean the people that cry because Obama got elected, or the people that wear those stupid Bill O Rly jackets (like my brain dead boss)? I bet you cried over Obamas election didn't you? You see I'm not mapping his administration, whatever that means, I'm looking at what he has stated and what his administration has stated are there plans. I'm looking at his empty promises and if he keeps them or not, you have your shoes firmly planted in loving Obama, me, I see the organizations he's associated with and I know what those groups want.

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



No. Knowing whether or not one is a member of something is not a qualification for the presidency.


Strawman argument, come on, you got to be kidding me, it's not a matter of whether it qualifies him or not, I worded that badly, I should have said "Don't you think that person is not fit to be president?", I guess doing crack makes you memory a little foggy, that seems to be a problem both presidents have had. You have made it clear that you want someone who is so incompetent that they don't know if they are a member of a certain group or not, especially if it's so easy to find out, lol, thanks for the laugh BH, you are proving to me more and more what you are and what you think.


I believe you pre-judge Obama supporters. The rest of your post shows it.


And you say you're not prejudiced? OK. On what do you base the above judgment, then? If you're not prejudiced against Obama supporters, then what are the grounds for that judgment? What knowledge do you have about me that makes you believe the above judgment?


BH, I am judging you, are you the face of all Obama supporters? If so then yes, I would be judging all Obama supporters, I only meant to judge you individually, but it seems as though you think that my comments directed towards you and your actions are directed towards all the Obama supporters, I have given my reasons for why I believe what I believe about you and you have yet to prove me otherwise. Also, you still have yet to apologize for the lie that you told, saying that I think all Obama supporters are stupid.


I have voted Republican. Democrat, Independent and Libertarian. And I think I even voted Green one time. I don't vote for a party, I vote for the person. And not voting is nothing to brag about in my opinion.


You seem to purposefully be leaving out some critical facts, like how manys times you have voted democrat compared to the others, also, what republicans you have voted for, those are things I would have noted in a reply if the tables were turned.

BH, you are not the speaker for all Obama supporters, just as I am not the speaker for all the Ron Paul supporters, the guy who would have had me voting was the only person who had ideas that were different than any other candidate, Obama, well, we would be just as well off if Bush was still in.

BH, when it comes to lite that Obama is nothing more than the same as Bush and all the others, will you still support this clown? I mean seriously, there's loyalty and then there's ignorance.

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by TheRandom1
Strawman argument, come on, you got to be kidding me, it's not a matter of whether it qualifies him or not, I worded that badly,


Well, then don't accuse me of using a strawman because you asked your question wrong. I answered your question. If you have another question, I'll be glad to answer it.



"Don't you think that person is not fit to be president?",


And my answer is the same. No. Knowing whether or not one is a member of something does not a make a person unfit for the presidency.



I guess doing crack makes you memory a little foggy, that seems to be a problem both presidents have had.


"Both" presidents?



You have made it clear that you want someone who is so incompetent that they don't know if they are a member of a certain group or not, especially if it's so easy to find out, lol, thanks for the laugh BH, you are proving to me more and more what you are and what you think.


And what does responding to an argument with ad hominem attacks mean? It's what people do when their argument is failing.

In my first post, I said I wouldn't "argue" with you... And since you've decided to get personal instead of sticking with the subject, I will bow out and you can find someone else to "argue" with. I'm just not into it.


[edit on 15-2-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 02:24 PM
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great

when will the obama and bush lovers learn .....



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


In my first post, I said I wouldn't "argue" with you... And since you've decided to get personal instead of sticking with the subject, I will bow out and you can find someone else to "argue" with. I'm just not into it.


No BH, you got personal first, with this comment:


I can accept that. Can you?


I replied, so either man up to what you started (with the personal stuff) or not.

Still you have yet to admit that you were wrong about what you said, saying that I said all Obama supporters are stupid.


"Both" presidents?


Yes, both Obama and Bush have done crack.

Obama


Come on BH, just admit it, Obama = Bush, Bush = Obama.

-Lahara



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by sadchild01
 


Just so you know, I don't support Bush, I don't support any of these clowns.

-Lahara



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