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Arizona boy, 9, will do no time for killing father

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posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 11:56 PM
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Arizona boy, 9, will do no time for killing father


www.chron.com

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — A 9-year-old charged with killing his father and another man has been offered a plea deal that would spare him any jail time, his attorney said Thursday.

"We aren't going to sign him up for prison," defense attorney Benjamin Brewer said. "We would never do that."

Brewer declined to offer specifics, including what plea the boy could enter and whether it would involve the two counts of premeditated murder he faces. A change of plea hearing was scheduled for Feb. 19,
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 11:56 PM
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I am not sure how I feel on this one guys. It is a kid by all senses of the situation that probably didn't really understand what he was doing. But It was premeditated. This kid needs to have some serious psychological help. Maybe he should be sent to a some kind of group work home for kids where they can get mental help and serve time for their crime. I hope this kid does get the help he needs because I just can't accept a 9 year old kid knows what he was doing and may not have a well defined right from wrong. We just don't know.

www.chron.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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Has his guilt been sufficiently established? As I recall, the weapon required that the shooter reload for each shot; the victims were both shot several times. It is obviously possible that an eight-year-old (as he was at the time) did this, but it's just such a remarkable story.

Assuming he is guilty of the crime, he should be placed in an intensive treatment program. To suggest jail time for a very young, clearly disturbed child is preposterous and, well, disgusting.

[edit on 13/2/09 by paperplanes]



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by paperplanes
Has his guilt been sufficiently established? As I recall, the weapon required that the shooter reload for each shot; the victims were both shot several times. It is obviously possible that an eight-year-old (as he was at the time) did this, but it's just such a remarkable story.

Assuming he is guilty of the crime, he should be placed in an intensive treatment program. To suggest jail time for a very young, clearly disturbed child is preposterous and, well, disgusting.

[edit on 13/2/09 by paperplanes]


Are you kidding? I knew it was wrong to kill things when I was 8. I knew it was wrong to say, attack a cat, so for this kid to be capable of killing two grown men is, frankly, mind-boggling.

I wouldn't want that kid growing up in my society. Imagine what a monster he will turn into.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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I agree even at that age you should know the difference between the right and wrong involved with killing anything.

He most probably will be supervised through out the rest of his childhood, lets hope they can turn him around. They can't guarantee he's safe in public but it's only right that he'll be released from the supervision in time.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 04:36 AM
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www.usatoday.com...


PHOENIX — An 8-year-old St. Johns, Ariz., boy charged with double-homicide may have kept a written record of spankings by his parents, vowing that the 1,000th would be his limit, according to a police records released Friday.
A search affidavit by Sgt. Lucas Rodriguez says the child "is believed to have made ledgers and or communicated in the form of writings about his intentions. (The boy) told a CPS. .. worker that when he reached one thousand spankings. .. that would be his limit. (The boy) kept a tally of his spankings on a piece of paper."

In a statement to police a day after the Nov. 5 killings, the boy said he had been spanked the day before the shootings because he did not complete a school assignment.

The juvenile is charged with shooting his father and a family friend, 39-year-old Timothy Romans, at the family's home in St. Johns, about 225 miles northeast of Phoenix

According to the police records, family members were not surprised when told one day after the slayings that the boy had confessed to murder. Police Chief Roy Melnick says in his report, "I comforted them as best we could. After several minutes, (the boy's grandmother) shouted out in an angry and loud tone, 'I knew this would happen. They were too hard on (the boy). I knew (he) did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any eight year old boy is capable of doing this, it's (him).'

"She then started to tell me something and then stopped herself. She took several deep breaths, wanting to tell me more but stopped herself."

Melnick says the grandmother then said the boy's stepmother suspected the child that night. At that point, the child's grandfather added, "If any eight year old was capable of doing this, (the 8-year-old) was." And the grandmother said, "I knew this was going to happen, they were too hard on (him)."

The Arizona Republic is not naming the boy or his family members due to the suspect's age.

Search warrant records are contained in a police report made available by the Apache County Attorney's Office.

The case file contains other revelations, including statements from friends that Romans and the boy's father had been involved in disputes with co-workers at the nearby power plant, and with men at a local bar.



[edit on 13-2-2009 by spacecowgirl]



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 04:48 AM
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So there you have it. The Father gave him 1000 spankings, averaging 125 spankings a year from birth.
A brutal father and a grandmother who knew and did nothing.

So all you posters up there, DID YOU know it was wrong to hit a child as an adult, just like you knew what was right or wrong as a child?

[edit on 13-2-2009 by spacecowgirl]



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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We don't know the whole backstory...for all we know sexual abuse was involved, who knows? Something horrible must have been done to that child to make him act like that, at any rate. Either that or he's "mis-wired" in the sense of being mentally ill. Either way he belongs in some kind of treatment like a hospital for the criminally insane or severely disturbed children, not bread-and-butter prison.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 05:40 AM
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Dunno guys, as stated the weapon used, required relodeing each shot, for an 8 year old to be able to relode fast enough to get the second shot off, before the other adult got a hold of him... Sounds a little dodgey to say the least.

For all we know this kid is innocent, someone had the guys killed, then blamed the kid, now their legal team is getting the kid off the hook?

Afterall the kid did apparently say 1000th spank is his limit, then the parents would pay! So why did his mother survive and an innocent neighbour die? If he wanted to make his parents pay, he would have chose a time when both would be present, more than likely in the night?

Things do not add up here, so would keep an eye out on this story!



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 05:58 AM
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reply to post by bigvig316
 


"Leave no witnesses."

The boy boy killed TWO, 2, dos; he knew exactly what he was doing, and knew how to do it.

I could, conceivably, give him a pass for killing the father, IF abuse (spankings are not necessarily abuse) was involved, But to murder the family friend/ boarder is IMO completely unjustified.

To the issue of abuse: The kid went to school, did he not? Did any adult teacher, or family member contact CPS, to report signs of abuse? Have not heard of any such reports.

I went to school, in a different age, with in-your-face evidence of abuse, and probably received more than a thousand "spankings" before age of 8, and not once considered killing either of my parents, much less a family friend/ acquaintance. We were taught to shoot by the time we could hold a gun.

Just saying this child knew what he was doing. I would wager that he calculated he could get away with it because of his age.

Parents, beware, they learn early how much they can get away with.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 06:20 AM
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Good grief, if the little monster had actually done his homework, he'd have avoided the spankings all-together, it would seem.

Anyone who murders is a monster, I don't care for the excuses or situations; it's never justified to take another's one and only life.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth

Originally posted by paperplanes


Are you kidding? I knew it was wrong to kill things when I was 8. I knew it was wrong to say, attack a cat, so for this kid to be capable of killing two grown men is, frankly, mind-boggling.

I wouldn't want that kid growing up in my society. Imagine what a monster he will turn into.


What part of my comment do you find disagreeable? I didn't suggest that the child didn't understand that what he was doing was wrong. My point was very clearly that a child of eight (EIGHT!) years who loads a shotgun and takes down two adult men, one of whom is his own father, is clearly mentally aberrant; that level of violence and focus is not part of a normal eight-year-old's psyche. This is a child whose brain cannot be said to be functioning properly. To send any eight-year-old to prison would be absurd--he needs mental treatment, arguably for the rest of his life.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
Anyone who murders is a monster, I don't care for the excuses or situations; it's never justified to take another's one and only life.


Are you serious? I suppose the majority of the civilized world is just mistaken then, as most modern legal systems are heavily inclusive of the idea that taking a life is often justifiable. I'll be interested to hear the reasoning of your argument, including the ostensible condemnation of lethal self-defense (that is, after all, taking another's one and only life).


[edit on 13/2/09 by paperplanes]



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Saf85

Afterall the kid did apparently say 1000th spank is his limit, then the parents would pay! So why did his mother survive and an innocent neighbour die? If he wanted to make his parents pay, he would have chose a time when both would be present, more than likely in the night?

Things do not add up here, so would keep an eye out on this story!


It helps if you actually read the story, then it adds up a lot better. Firstly, the boy did not live with his mother as his parents were separated. Secondly, the other man he shot was not a neighbour but his father's boarder who lived with them.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 11:49 PM
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Yeah this kid has got to know the difference of right and wrong. Its common sense. Obviously he needs some sort of treatment.



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 11:50 PM
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There have also been accusations that the child was possibly sexually molested. If that is the case, i say shoot first and ask questions later. Even the 125 spankings a year is ridiculous, what could the kid have done to warrant such punishment?



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 11:52 PM
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Years ago I worked with a guy who was rather old fashioned and a hardass. I remember reading later in the papers that his teenage son blew him away with a shotgun. Very sad.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 02:14 AM
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When you hit a child 1000 times something will happen.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 02:50 AM
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The kid obviously had major issues with not knowing what is right and wrong which would have to stem from the parents. I am not sure that he actually got a 1000 beating like its reporting, it may be exaggerated. But the only ones to blame are the parents. But sometimes you have to smack a kid to teach them, telling them just isn't going to get the point across. My brother and I as we were growing up, got our fair share of beatings from dad's strap for stupid stuff we shouldn't of been doing. But after that whooping we didn't do it again. We both grew up to be fine people and responsible for our actions and knowing of right and wrong. It is all with the parenting.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 02:59 AM
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There's not much love from a parent who uses corporal punishment in lieu of loving discussion. This child is no monster. None of the adults in his midst would help him. He was cool and rational in the application of his tolerance. As mentioned above, it is either unknown or not being disclosed as to the whether there was sexual assault committed as well, though it seems the boy might have logged such a matter as well. In any case, it's time for us all to consider taking responsibility for our lives for the lives of our loved ones. Why should we defer that responsibility to the "authorities"? They are wrong more often than not. This is why we find ourselves feeling powerless to decide our own fate. That boy had to do the job all the adults in his community wouldn't or couldn't do. He freed himself from the cycle of apathy and inaction.

We need ask only one question to make any decision: "What would love do?" I can't see that the father in this case acted out of love. Love talks, it doesn't strike. Love is free, not restrictive. Love grows, it does not kill. That boy had the right to love himself. How could he do that in such an environment?

Think about the boy's father. Did he even have the capacity for love? Could a parent beat their child almost daily and truly love them? Perhaps, but his love was perverse. It was unhealthy. Should the boy have to suffer, to learn his father's way of love in order to feel it? I see that the boy saved society from a very pained man. No one with a healthy heart could do such a thing to a small child.

The boy may not have been exactly right in his actions, but he did really well given the situation. His counting didn't start when he was born so his counting started some time later. If he started it when he was four (that's just astoundingly cool, collected and rational), he got a spanking most days of the week, every week for half his life. Just how much should the kid take? No one helped him. Not one adult - relatives, neighbors, teachers - came to his aid. Judge his actions with love.

I ask you, imagine yourself back as an 8-year-old. What would you do? What would you do given these circumstances? How much of your soul do you surrender to pain? Do you become like the one who hurts you? Do you shatter under the pressure? The kid chose to retain his self-love. I respect that. I would adopt that kid in a heartbeat. He knows and understands love.



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