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Buffalo plane crash

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posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by N3krostatic
 


Please check out my post on the next couple pages (1 or 2 after yours)




posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by JohnTheBaptist
 


Has anyone here have a tape of the early morning reporting on WABC TV NY channel 7 ?

I was up at 5:30 on 02/13/09 flipped on the TV and heard the reports for the first time on this crash.

A youngish woman reporting for WABC was "live" on the scene and approached two guys about twenty years old to ask them what they saw.

They said they were up late watching TV, heard the plane loud and low, ran outside and looked out to see what was happening. They said "the right engine was on fire" and was in trouble. "It was going up and down and then spun around and fell flat to the ground".

This part of the report wasn't aired again to my knowledge. I had to leave for work.
I just thought it was a simple horrible accident. Later, I wasn't so sure.

During the course of the day I heard the story focus on "icing" as the sole cause of the crash. When I got back home I listened to Bill Ritter on EyeWitness News report that they recovered the Black Boxes and that they didn't have much to indicate what happened on them.

Here is what I thought was peculiar... Witnesses did report that one Engine had all the blades of the propellers snapped off and the other one didn't.

This strongly suggests that when the plane fell flat to the ground, one rotor was running/spinning and the other one wasn't.

Then I heard who was on the plane. I already knew she had lawsuits to reopen the 9/11 investigation. Beverly was not going to go away.

The Illuminati love Prime Numbers...



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by johnsky
 


Has anyone here have a tape of the early morning reporting on WABC TV NY channel 7 ?

I was up at 5:30 on 02/13/09 flipped on the TV and heard the reports for the first time on this crash.

A youngish woman reporting for WABC was "live" on the scene and approached two guys about twenty years old to ask them what they saw.

They said they were up late watching TV, heard the plane loud and low, ran outside and looked out to see what was happening. They said "the right engine was on fire" and was in trouble. "It was going up and down and then spun around and fell flat to the ground".

This part of the report wasn't aired again to my knowledge. I had to leave for work.
I just thought it was a simple horrible accident. Later, I wasn't so sure.

During the course of the day I heard the story focus on "icing" as the sole cause of the crash. When I got back home I listened to Bill Ritter on EyeWitness News report that they recovered the Black Boxes and that they didn't have much to indicate what happened on them.

Here is what I thought was peculiar... Witnesses did report that one Engine had all the blades of the propellers snapped off and the other one didn't.

This strongly suggests that when the plane fell flat to the ground, one rotor was running/spinning and the other one wasn't.

Then I heard who was on the plane. I already knew she had lawsuits to reopen the 9/11 investigation. Beverly was not going to go away.

The Illuminati love Prime Numbers...



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:31 AM
link   
reply to post by N3krostatic
 

Has anyone here have a tape of the early morning reporting on WABC TV NY channel 7 ?

I was up at 5:30 on 02/13/09 flipped on the TV and heard the reports for the first time on this crash.

A youngish woman reporting for WABC was "live" on the scene and approached two guys about twenty years old to ask them what they saw.

They said they were up late watching TV, heard the plane loud and low, ran outside and looked out to see what was happening. They said "the right engine was on fire" and was in trouble. "It was going up and down and then spun around and fell flat to the ground".

This part of the report wasn't aired again to my knowledge. I had to leave for work.
I just thought it was a simple horrible accident. Later, I wasn't so sure.

During the course of the day I heard the story focus on "icing" as the sole cause of the crash. When I got back home I listened to Bill Ritter on EyeWitness News report that they recovered the Black Boxes and that they didn't have much to indicate what happened on them.

Here is what I thought was peculiar... Witnesses did report that one Engine had all the blades of the propellers snapped off and the other one didn't.

This strongly suggests that when the plane fell flat to the ground, one rotor was running/spinning and the other one wasn't.

Then I heard who was on the plane. I already knew she had lawsuits to reopen the 9/11 investigation. Beverly was not going to go away.

The Illuminati love Prime Numbers...



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


Has anyone here have a tape of the early morning reporting on WABC TV NY channel 7 ?

I was up at 5:30 on 02/13/09 flipped on the TV and heard the reports for the first time on this crash.

A youngish woman reporting for WABC was "live" on the scene and approached two guys about twenty years old to ask them what they saw.

They said they were up late watching TV, heard the plane loud and low, ran outside and looked out to see what was happening. They said "the right engine was on fire" and was in trouble. "It was going up and down and then spun around and fell flat to the ground".

This part of the report wasn't aired again to my knowledge. I had to leave for work.
I just thought it was a simple horrible accident. Later, I wasn't so sure.

During the course of the day I heard the story focus on "icing" as the sole cause of the crash. When I got back home I listened to Bill Ritter on EyeWitness News report that they recovered the Black Boxes and that they didn't have much to indicate what happened on them.

Here is what I thought was peculiar... Witnesses did report that one Engine had all the blades of the propellers snapped off and the other one didn't.

This strongly suggests that when the plane fell flat to the ground, one rotor was running/spinning and the other one wasn't.

Then I heard who was on the plane. I already knew she had lawsuits to reopen the 9/11 investigation. Beverly was not going to go away.

The Illuminati love Prime Numbers...



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:36 AM
link   
reply to post by Beefcake
 


Has anyone here have a tape of the early morning reporting on WABC TV NY channel 7 ?

I was up at 5:30 on 02/13/09 flipped on the TV and heard the reports for the first time on this crash.

A youngish woman reporting for WABC was "live" on the scene and approached two guys about twenty years old to ask them what they saw.

They said they were up late watching TV, heard the plane loud and low, ran outside and looked out to see what was happening. They said "the right engine was on fire" and was in trouble. "It was going up and down and then spun around and fell flat to the ground".

This part of the report wasn't aired again to my knowledge. I had to leave for work.
I just thought it was a simple horrible accident. Later, I wasn't so sure.

During the course of the day I heard the story focus on "icing" as the sole cause of the crash. When I got back home I listened to Bill Ritter on EyeWitness News report that they recovered the Black Boxes and that they didn't have much to indicate what happened on them.

Here is what I thought was peculiar... Witnesses did report that one Engine had all the blades of the propellers snapped off and the other one didn't.

This strongly suggests that when the plane fell flat to the ground, one rotor was running/spinning and the other one wasn't.

Then I heard who was on the plane. I already knew she had lawsuits to reopen the 9/11 investigation. Beverly was not going to go away.

The Illuminati love Prime Numbers...



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 12:59 AM
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In loss of control incidents, pilots don't always radio towever. Would you think Alaska 261 while nose diving to the sea, inverted, would be talking to the tower? or what about Air Florida 90, where the airflow to the engine, and over the wings was constricted by ice? Or, the 737 rudder HARD-OVER events? Pilots NEVER radio ATC while trying to stop the aircraft crashing; the notion that they would, or should, is absurd.


As CObzz said the first rule of airmanship is fly the plane. Worry about other stuff later.

The crew unfiortunately did not display airmanship leaving the autopilot connected when penetrating ice. This is referred in Safety Alert SA-014 from December 2008 on the NTSB website.





What should pilots do when they encounter leading edge ice?

• Leading-edge deice boots should be activated as soon as icing is encountered, unless the aircraft flight manual or the pilot’s operating handbook specifically directs not to activate them.

• If the aircraft flight manual or the pilot’s operating handbook specifies to wait for an accumulation of ice before activating the deice boots, maintain extremely careful vigilance of airspeed and any unusual handling qualities.

• While icing conditions exist, continue to manually cycle the deice system unless the system has a provision for continuous operation.

• Turn off or limit the use of the autopilot in order to better “feel” changes in the handling qualities of the airplane.

• Be aware that some aircraft manufacturers maintain that waiting for the accumulation of ice is still the most effective means of shedding ice.




posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by sy.gunson
 


sy.....are you familiar with the Q-400? ( or as I recall it before, the De Haviland Dash 8....just stretched)??

Because, except for riding on one, once....I know nothing else.

Well....a stretched Dash-8, re-christened because of a name change at the factory....a high-wing, turbo-prop. PT-6 engines, I believe....this off the top of my head....

The ATR that crashed, some years ago.....very similar cirmumstances....EXCEPT the ATR was in a holding pattern (on A/P) in icing conditions.

This Q-400, was descending and minutes away from landing....but encountered icing on the Approach.

Now, it is common, in weather, and on an 'Approach' to use the A/P.

Generally, depending on the weather conditions at the airport....and for this type of airplane....the A/P stays connected until visual sighting of the landing surface (runway) is confirmed. The 'flying' pilot then disconnects the A/P (small switch on the control wheel) and continues to a landing.

On an ILS approach, (or any instrument approach, for that matter) there is a point....called the 'minimums'. On an ILS it is usually at two hundred feet above the 'touch down' zone....this is roughly 1/2 mile from the end of the runway. These are 'Category 1' ILS standards. 1/2 mile visibility, that is the minimum criteria.

Other Instrument approaches vary....this airplane was qualified for only what I'm discussing.

Usually, during the Approach, you break below the clouds, see the runway, and disconnect the automation, and land the airplane.

The ice build-up seems to have been the Achilles Heel, here.....something possibly missed, during the Airplane's certification.



posted on May, 12 2009 @ 11:31 AM
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This article from The New York Post:
PILOT'S FATAL 'DISTRACTION'
CRASH CAPTAIN WAS 'COMING ON' TO PRETTY CO-PILOT


It is disclosed that:


The inexperienced captain of Flight 3407, which crashed into a Buffalo home, killing 50 people in February, flirted and discussed relationships with his much younger female co-pilot moments before the fatal plunge, sources close to the investigation said.



it would be great to hear the audio.

Also, discussing the regulations, this article:
Pilots flirted before crash, sources say


Capt. Marvin Renslow, 47, and his co-pilot, Rebecca Shaw, 24, talked as the plane approached Buffalo Niagara International Airport -- despite FAA rules that ban non-flight-related conversations below 10,000 feet, the Post said. The conversation was captured on the plane's flight recorder. The newspaper based its account on information from unidentified sources close to the investigation of the crash.


So What is going on? Oversight is par with Congress'



posted on May, 13 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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It looks like insufficient training was the factor, besides the question of lack of sleep.

I am reminded of Captain Sullenberger's testimony before Congress

If we do not sufficiently value the airline piloting profession and future pilots are less experienced and less skilled, it logically follows that we will see negative consequences to the flying public – and to our country.



posted on May, 13 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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Heard on the news today that it turns out the captain hadn't slept in a day and the co-pilot was making less than $16,000 a year and was sick with a cold on that night.

Driving while sleep deprived is just as deadly as driving while drunk, logically the same would apply to flying planes.



posted on May, 13 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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Jeezu!!...$16,000!!...that plane was not just some big yellow taxi in the sky!!
People, ya gets whats ya pay for.


No sleep? No problem. No doz.



posted on May, 14 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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Transcripts of the pilot's conversations have emerged. Turns out Captain was flying and the first officer responded by raising flaps whilst the captain responded to stall warning by pulling the nose up.

Both reactions were the antithesis of how one must respond to a stall warning. One must not retract flaps. One must not pull the nose up.

In addition the autopilot was still engaged until the captain raised the nose (when it disconnected automatically)

discussion in cockpit

www.nytimes.com...]commentry

In addition FAA regs require disconnecting the autopilot before entering icing conditions so that pilots retain a feel for the plane's handling before icing makes the aircraft unrecoverable.

A decision should have been taken before lowering undercarriage whether to divert to another airport. The airspeed dropped dramatically after wheels were lowered and the aircraft was barely controllable after this.

Crew reaction to the incipient stall exacerbated the problems. Power was applied during the spin and airspeed did begin to increase but they were so low (about 2,300 ft) that there was insufficient altitude to recover.

Conversation in the cockpit was not focused on flying the aircraft or making judgements about the conditions.

In summary poor airmanship by both pilots.

Sad thing is the female co-pilot was talking about how serious the icing was as if she was a spectator rather than a decision maker in the driving seat.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 12:01 AM
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Heard on the news that the captain failed a safety test and he lied about it on his resume claiming he never failed a safety test.



posted on May, 15 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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Here's a link to the NTSB animation of the last 2 minutes of the flight.

[color=gold]Flight 3407



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