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Polynesian Trans-Pacific

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posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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Southeast Asia and Australia give archaeologists some of the best evidence for ancient sea crossings, not just by Palaeolithic humans but also by Neolithic peoples and even spice traders contemporary with the Roman Empire. New discoveries, some controversial, are pushing back the dates of human colonization of this region and are expanding our knowledge of early island networks. These finds are also illuminating the first steps in some of the longest prehistoric open-sea voyages of colonization on record--from Southeast Asia to Polynesian islands such as Hawaii, Easter Island, and New Zealand, and perhaps also from Indonesia to Madagascar--during the first millennium A.D.


Ancient Seafarers




posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Southeast Asia and Australia give archaeologists some of the best evidence for ancient sea crossings, not just by Palaeolithic humans but also by Neolithic peoples and even spice traders contemporary with the Roman Empire. New discoveries, some controversial, are pushing back the dates of human colonization of this region and are expanding our knowledge of early island networks. These finds are also illuminating the first steps in some of the longest prehistoric open-sea voyages of colonization on record--from Southeast Asia to Polynesian islands such as Hawaii, Easter Island, and New Zealand, and perhaps also from Indonesia to Madagascar--during the first millennium A.D.


Ancient Seafarers



I'm not sure why you're quoting that... it makes the very point that I was making. Ancient peoples did cross parts of the sea. But the article does not support the idea that someone from Polynesia came to the Americas and colonized it some 20,000 years ago and more.

As it says, the longest prehistoric (by which they mean "before the area had writing... which can be in some cases as recent as 600 years ago (prehistoric United States)) voyages were to Hawaii. They identify this taking place during the time period of 1AD to 1,000 AD.

And this matches with my previous discussion on the topic.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
I'm not sure why you're quoting that... it makes the very point that I was making.


It is not my intention to either prove you right or wrong. Im just playing around with ideas and possibilities. And learning a thing or two from your posts.




Ancient peoples did cross parts of the sea. But the article does not support the idea that someone from Polynesia came to the Americas and colonized it some 20,000 years ago and more.


Yes...but do allow us some speculative room to breathe. I know you have been studying the facts as-they-are-known. But there is no harm in asking "Might ocean-travel have occured in prehistory?"



As it says, the longest prehistoric (by which they mean "before the area had writing... which can be in some cases as recent as 600 years ago (prehistoric United States)) voyages were to Hawaii. They identify this taking place during the time period of 1AD to 1,000 AD.


Yes. The article does not contradict anything you said. It wasnt meant to.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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Speculation

It's my own opinion that the Polynesians MAY have continued on from Hawaii and Easter island which might have brought them to the Americas.

Recently there was a bit of a stir when reports of an ancient Polynesian chicken DNA was thought to have been detected but that was shot down and they are relooking at it.

Could they have made it?

Perhaps but their agricultural methods would not have worked that well in most parts of the Americas and more importantly their military technology would have been inferior to most of the tribes in the Americas. Other negative points would have been the small size of any landing group, the known hostility of many Americas' groups and as a contra-indicator, no signs of Polynesian occupation of any of the Americas western coastal islands.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


Thanks for that. I had no idea.


Recently dug chicken bones on the coast of Chile have been dated before Columbus' "discovery" of America and their DNA matched fowls breeds of Polynesia.
1

And here`s something on the controversy:

Scientists in spat over chicken DNA



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Yes...but do allow us some speculative room to breathe. I know you have been studying the facts as-they-are-known. But there is no harm in asking "Might ocean-travel have occured in prehistory?"


Answer: It did. We know this. Not from New Zealand to Alaska, though. Nor from Polynesia to Peru. From Mainland Asia to Australia, as long ago as 60,000 years and more. From Mainland Asia to Polynesia, at least 5,000 years ago. From those points to Hawaii, about 1500 to 1,000 years ago. From there to Easter Island, about 800 years ago.

The Polynesians have some very sophisticated navigational tools.

Along the coasts through Alaska to the Americas, there were 2 to 4 different waves of immigration within the past 10,000 years. The last one came through about 5,000 years ago and include the ancestors of the Hopis, Navajos, and Aztecs as well as the ancestors of the Inupiat and Inuit and Tlingit and Salish and Haida.

Didn't I bore everyone with this six or seven times already?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by Byrd

Not from New Zealand to Alaska, though. Nor from Polynesia to Peru.


You cant say this for certain. Neither can anyone else. This assumption is only based on what we know today.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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Yep right now there is no evidence for Polynesian contact with the Americas or vice versa.

Of course had the Polynesian made it it would have been 'late in the day'.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


What Sky you're not keeping up with Chicken bone DNA?

I live for it.

LOL



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:45 PM
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The carvings in the Bella Coola hills are very Hawaiian/Polynesian and were indeed studied. That is something that is well known in that area, which is where my ex husband lives, and he is of the Nuxálk Nation, one of the few nations with a written language.

There has been talk of currents throughout the Pacific used as freeways to speed travel between continents and regions.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by mystiq
 


Link to a Flickr site that has photographs of the petrogyphs at Bella Coola

Where they are known as the Thorsen Creek petrogyphs (I do believe)



[edit on 16/2/09 by Hanslune]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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Thank you for the link, I'm too busy right now to do any research

My ex and I have hiked up to them with the children, and that valley is breathtaking.

Edit to add: I saw pictures of my mother-in-law when she was young, and before I was told by the family of the history of the region, I knew she looked like one of the most beautiful polynesian women I had ever seen, comparing her to photos I had seen of polynesia. That was the resemblance.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by mystiq]

[edit on 16-2-2009 by mystiq]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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Those Canadian glyphs and carvings look amazing. How old do you guys suppose they are?



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Howdy Sky

Yes they are very nice collection, oh dating rock carvings, hard to do but Byrd is the expert on that. Given the high rain fall there dating might be difficult. Depends on the type of rock too.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by mystiq
 


Link to a Flickr site that has photographs of the petrogyphs at Bella Coola

Where they are known as the Thorsen Creek petrogyphs (I do believe)


Those are amazing! The Bear (titled "sleeping beauty") is a real classic Northwestern motif found all over the place (but not in Polynesia.) The Sun motif is also a fairly classic one. The others are stylistically similar to modern totem poles:
www.totem-pole.net...

They also look a bit like the ceremonial masks of the Northwest... one in particular reminds me of the cannibal woman mask that Franz Boas talked about (and photographed) in his book on the Wolf Dance.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Those Canadian glyphs and carvings look amazing. How old do you guys suppose they are?


Very hard to say. The motifs are those used by the tribes of that area within the past 400 years. Apparently the current estimate is "over 5,000 years" ... which would be very interesting. Artistic style and convention changes throughout time (one way you can tell if a site's been used for a long time) but nobody would blink an eye if they saw one of these on a totem pole in the area.

I'm not sure what an unchanging art style implies... but it's interesting. I'd love to learn more about it and maybe go there someday.

An owl-like face from the area is shown on this page, along with Hawaiian petroglyphs (so you can see how very different they are):
geology.com...



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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Hi folks, I'm a multihull broker working out of Seattle and a geographer by training. I'm very interested in migrations in and around the Pacific. I've come across a photo circa 1860 taken at Mukilteo Landing just north of Seattle. It appears to show a Coastal Salish canoe with a polynesian style 'crab claw' sail. I don't think they copied that from the square riggers! Personally I think that Haida/Tlingit/Kwakuitl people could have followed the migration of Humpback whales to Hawaii. They migrate each fall from SE AK to Maui just about the time that one could reasonably ride the current and Pacific High to HI.



allnunstoport



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by allnunstoport
 


Have you ever heard of Aloha, Oregon. Or Kalama? Hawaiians were taken on as crew on various ships in the 1800's because of their skills as seamen. I think your photo is an example of polynesian sailing tech being introduced during this period.

www.northwesthawaiitimes.com...



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 07:20 PM
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[edit on 6-3-2009 by Skyfloating]



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