New Age UFOlogy vs. Logical Belief

When and how do many of you draw your lines when it comes to the belief in Extraterrestrials?

I've been reading books on UFO's and E.B.E.'s for about 23 years now and as of recent I've noticed more and more New age garbage really coming to the forefront of the UFO community...I see believers fighting for national recognization of Lemuria...people CHANNELING alien "entities"...wackos sharing past lives with aliens...fanciful accounts of warring star systems...is it me or has the UFO community finally stopped drawing lines?

When is it time for people with a logical belief in O.I.L. to speak on issues they feel are causing the community more harm? I mean come on...Bush is a Reptiloid alien??? He may be a coke sniffing, oil soaked, hatchet faced, secret society sporting politician but are we really taking the David Icke's seriously anymore? Different dimensions are a great possibility but are we constantly to believe that the fat guy down the block with the ponytail and sandals was the one to cross those barriers simply because he said so?

How and at what do many of you draw your line in the sand at? I see alot of the UFO community on the edge of being Hale Bop Cultists sometimes and I wonder what those of you with a bit of common sense feel.

I believe that it is highly probable, with the known size of the universe, that there are alien life forms in some way, shape or form somewhere out there. To think other wise would be paramount to the egotistical view that Earth is the center of the universe. However!!! Have they been visiting us? Have they created or modified our species in some way? I have no proof of this and so I wait patiently to be amazed when proof is provided.

Sometimes I wonder if Humanity's common sense has evolved. At one time it was common sense to believe the world was flat, of course, that theory was disarmed. So is our common sense evolving on a daily basis?

It seems that is the case. That 'line' is a very fine one, and because our minds are forever expanding, it's quite possible that ... there are no lines to draw. Everything is weaved into another like a web. So engrained now it's become one in the same, yet separate. If we are in fact entering into a new Aeon which ends our 'human' way of thinking in that physical sense of the word 'the fine line era' as i'll call it, to a 'no line era' or The Spiritual Upgrade where there are no more rules. Then it would make sense that the reason for this expansion in new ideas and a deep thirst for knowlege is due to this 'shift' in our human evolution which would make complete and logical sense.

Originally posted by Sapphire
Sometimes I wonder if Humanity's common sense has evolved. At one time it was common sense to believe the world was flat, of course, that theory was disarmed. So is our common sense evolving on a daily basis?

It seems that is the case. That 'line' is a very fine one, and because our minds are forever expanding, it's quite possible that ... there are no lines to draw. Everything is weaved into another like a web. So engrained now it's become one in the same, yet separate. If we are in fact entering into a new Aeon which ends our 'human' way of thinking in that physical sense of the word 'the fine line era' as i'll call it, to a 'no line era' or The Spiritual Upgrade where there are no more rules. Then it would make sense that the reason for this expansion in new ideas and a deep thirst for knowlege is due to this 'shift' in our human evolution which would make complete and logical sense.

Is it a deep thirst for knowledge or a spiritual/mental void that's actively being filled by overactive imaginations?

Preest, I agree with you. There is a dangerous seepage of new-age junk slipping into UFOlogy. Emperical evidence, testimonials and theories are being washed over by pure crap. Now, before the tidal wave of new age BS, it took some work to seperate the real from the fake. Today, it's like trying to bail water out fo the titantic with a tablespoon.

DE

Or it's just that people are so full of themselves that nothing is correct unless its backed up by some kind of scientific mumbo jumbo?

Originally posted by DeusEx
Preest, I agree with you. There is a dangerous seepage of new-age junk slipping into UFOlogy. Emperical evidence, testimonials and theories are being washed over by pure crap. Now, before the tidal wave of new age BS, it took some work to seperate the real from the fake. Today, it's like trying to bail water out fo the titantic with a tablespoon.

DE

If there's no more "lines" to be drawn how far will this community be taken? How long will it before before a great portion of the UFO community is donning white gym shoes and preparing themselves for some entities channeled by some yahoo?

Is mankind seeing a Spiritual Upgrade? Yes, I agree with that...is there also a break down of common sense? I have to believe this is happening at an increased rate when it comes to this community as a whole...UFO conventions have become less a gathering place of likeminded individuals and a forum of serious discussion and much more of a marketplace for every lonely, attention seeking, sci-fi, new age wacko with a new piece of jewelery or a new book plagarized from Chariot of The Gods.

Originally posted by Sapphire
Or it's just that people are so full of themselves that nothing is correct unless its backed up by some kind of scientific mumbo jumbo?

I don't always agree with scientific data but I also have to take into account that I'm not a scientist and I may not like or agree with some findings but that's where common sense comes into play...I can either accept the findings or sit down with pen and paper and CREATE my own findings based on a small piece of star wars here and a small piece of star trek there. I agree that not everything can be taken at face value and not everything can be proven with data...but there DOES have to be a line correct?

Or is mass suicide and whatever other tragedies this community as a whole may see in the future part of the spiritual upgrade?

Common Sense tells us that walking on water is impossible however, according to Belief aka the very words of Jesus Christ, it's very possible.

Originally posted by Sapphire
Common Sense tells us that walking on water is impossible however, according to Belief aka the very words of Jesus Christ, it's very possible.

True...that would be an even more interesting reply if I believed in the Christ others did lol...I see what you're saying but you seem to be skirting what I'm saying...when do we say no to junk?

I can leave this board and come back in a month with 30 years of history for an alien civilization as well as a homeworld and intimate details of the species and their religious beliefs and their interaction with mankind...does that make it real?

Common sense tells you no...a few of the loons on this board would say yes and even take my story on as their own experiences. Is that common sense?

Originally posted by Preest

Originally posted by Sapphire
Or it's just that people are so full of themselves that nothing is correct unless its backed up by some kind of scientific mumbo jumbo?

I don't always agree with scientific data but I also have to take into account that I'm not a scientist and I may not like or agree with some findings but that's where common sense comes into play...I can either accept the findings or sit down with pen and paper and CREATE my own findings based on a small piece of star wars here and a small piece of star trek there. I agree that not everything can be taken at face value and not everything can be proven with data...but there DOES have to be a line correct?

Or is mass suicide and whatever other tragedies this community as a whole may see in the future part of the spiritual upgrade?

True, however, where is the line drawn when it comes to what people consider Immoral? Some people think censorship is immoral, others believe that it's necessary in order to keep us from becoming a chaotic race of people who dont have lines, so is drawing a line considered censorship? Who's right and who's not? What are your thoughts on this.

Originally posted by Preest

Originally posted by Sapphire
Common Sense tells us that walking on water is impossible however, according to Belief aka the very words of Jesus Christ, it's very possible.

True...that would be an even more interesting reply if I believed in the Christ others did lol...I see what you're saying but you seem to be skirting what I'm saying...when do we say no to junk?

I can leave this board and come back in a month with 30 years of history for an alien civilization as well as a homeworld and intimate details of the species and their religious beliefs and their interaction with mankind...does that make it real?

Common sense tells you no...a few of the loons on this board would say yes and even take my story on as their own experiences. Is that common sense?

Ok heh, i see what your saying here. Proof would be nice definately and to believe 'blindly' is foolish, however, not all things can be measured in that way. Take for example Astral Travel, you can 'prove' people actually do it can you? Without unequivacal evidence, although people believe others who say they've done it, and why? Because so many have done it? Big deal, maybe people are simply imagining they're doing it but aren't.

Originally posted by Sapphire
True, however, where is the line drawn when it comes to what people consider Immoral? Some people think censorship is immoral, others believe that it's necessary in order to keep us from becoming a chaotic race of people who dont have lines, so is drawing a line considered censorship? Who's right and who's not? What are your thoughts on this.

Good question, and I plan to answer that but...I need a smoke though...between partaking in some intelligent convo on this forum (FINALLY!) and scripting a comic series my mind is turning into mush...I need to give in to my addicitions. Be back in a few.

[Edited on 4-14-2004 by Preest]

Originally posted by Preest

Originally posted by Sapphire
True, however, where is the line drawn when it comes to what people consider Immoral? Some people think censorship is immoral, others believe that it's necessary in order to keep us from becoming a chaotic race of people who dont have lines, so is drawing a line considered censorship? Who's right and who's not? What are your thoughts on this.

Good question, and I plan to answer that but...I need a smoke though...between partaking in some intelligent convo on this forum (FINALLY!) and scripting a comic series my mind is turning into mush...I need to give in to my addicitions. Be back in a few.

[Edited on 4-14-2004 by Preest]

Damn now i need one too!

There are two ways to take the passage of Jesus walking on water.

1. The fanatical bible thumper point of view that says Jesus was there and that (peter?) fell into the water because he questioned his faith.

or

2. Jesus may have actually been able to walk on water (or not) and "allowed" Peter to perform the same ability to show him the power of faith, but once you lose faith or you begin to question your faith then the world (ie the water) will swallow you up. Jesus may have told this story to Peter instead of "performing" it. So that he could understand the power of faith. Peter might have experienced a kind of virtual reality in his mind and been able to "walk along" with Jesus as Jesus was telling him this passage. Since Jesus is the most evolved human form, it is likely that he could manipulate all thought and body functions to achieve his desired effects. Thus Jesus, while telling the story to Peter, simultaneously altered Peter's reality so that in his mind he was actually living what Jesus was speaking to him, similar to being under hypnosis. Thus Peter's ? retelling of the passage becomes a "real" event if taken word for word, instead of a parabol to explain that the power of faith can overcome even what seems impossible.

If this is true then other events in the bible could have been manipulated in the same manner, group hypnosis could explain why the followers thought the bread or fish was multiplied on the hill. Jesus made them "think" that they were eating when maybe they were just eating "air".

Could this indeed be possible ?

The Bible says that in the end times (Revelations) "I will send a strong delusion, that if it were possible, even the elect might be deceived."

I think that the UFO phenomenon will be used by the demons (possibly as demons--taking on these God/Satan-permitted forms) to convince the world to follow their Satanic world government (666 imprints and all) so that only they can "save us" from the "UFOs"...those of us who say otherwise will be those who are hunted down by the "beast system" JMOs

Originally posted by robertfenix
There are two ways to take the passage of Jesus walking on water.

1. The fanatical bible thumper point of view that says Jesus was there and that (peter?) fell into the water because he questioned his faith.

or

2. Jesus may have actually been able to walk on water (or not) and "allowed" Peter to perform the same ability to show him the power of faith, but once you lose faith or you begin to question your faith then the world (ie the water) will swallow you up. Jesus may have told this story to Peter instead of "performing" it. So that he could understand the power of faith. Peter might have experienced a kind of virtual reality in his mind and been able to "walk along" with Jesus as Jesus was telling him this passage. Since Jesus is the most evolved human form, it is likely that he could manipulate all thought and body functions to achieve his desired effects. Thus Jesus, while telling the story to Peter, simultaneously altered Peter's reality so that in his mind he was actually living what Jesus was speaking to him, similar to being under hypnosis. Thus Peter's ? retelling of the passage becomes a "real" event if taken word for word, instead of a parabol to explain that the power of faith can overcome even what seems impossible.

If this is true then other events in the bible could have been manipulated in the same manner, group hypnosis could explain why the followers thought the bread or fish was multiplied on the hill. Jesus made them "think" that they were eating when maybe they were just eating "air".

Could this indeed be possible ?

Interesting point robertfenix. I do recall reading about events though like this in History, such as a Monk who meditated often to the point where he could actually defy reality, as the story goes, he was reading one day and forgot that the door he shouldnt technically have been able to walk thru, walked thru it. He somehow materialised and defied all human reality.

I know the power of the mind is great, so is it possible that some of those biblical events actually did occur but, due to our current scientific beliefs, have we lost those abilities to do the 'Impossible' because of our own mind sets? Or does Mankind actually have the ability to do greater things than we are allowing ourselves? If so, then we have de-volved. Take the Pyramids for example, they say in order to have built the Pyramid of Giza in a 20 yr period, we would have had to have been able to move one of those individual tons of stone every six seconds in order to accomplish what Archaeology has shown to be accurate dating.

Originally posted by mepatriot
The Bible says that in the end times (Revelations) "I will send a strong delusion, that if it were possible, even the elect might be deceived."

Again, that's only 'if' Revelations is in fact accurate.

I think that the UFO phenomenon will be used by the demons (possibly as demons--taking on these God/Satan-permitted forms) to convince the world to follow their Satanic world government (666 imprints and all) so that only they can "save us" from the "UFOs"...those of us who say otherwise will be those who are hunted down by the "beast system" JMOs

Demons i believe are probably Aliens, and not actual demons, just the bad ones who thrive on Controlling other species, much as the Gov't does in it's desire to control other people. We seem to be a Prize with two powerful forces fighting over who gets to ultimately control us. UFO's have been mentioned throughout history, from the Dogon Tribe to the Ancient Dropa Stones found on the border of China and Tibet.

Dropa Stones

Back again...here's my main issue...Are the believers right or wrong or is it the people who perpetuate foolishness? And if it's those who perpetuate...where and when do we draw the line?

As I said before...I can simply take a few weeks and create a highly detailed account of an alien civilization and then describe in detail how I know all of this...but, I'd be lying. So...when somebody does the same as I...do we call them out as a community or do we simply assume that they could be right based on the fact that we have no proof they're wrong? What happens when a crazed follower of David Icke assassinates Pres. Bush because he SAW him turn to a lizard alien? Did he see it? Was David right or did we not draw a line in the sand before he got out of hand and started causing his fans to see the lizards around ever corner?

Originally posted by Preest
Back again...here's my main issue...Are the believers right or wrong or is it the people who perpetuate foolishness? And if it's those who perpetuate...where and when do we draw the line?

As I said before...I can simply take a few weeks and create a highly detailed account of an alien civilization and then describe in detail how I know all of this...but, I'd be lying. So...when somebody does the same as I...do we call them out as a community or do we simply assume that they could be right based on the fact that we have no proof they're wrong? What happens when a crazed follower of David Icke assassinates Pres. Bush because he SAW him turn to a lizard alien? Did he see it? Was David right or did we not draw a line in the sand before he got out of hand and started causing his fans to see the lizards around ever corner?

Preest, i've always found that to be a far fetched fairy tale. He claims that other people have also seen the same thing. That is something that cannot be measured in full truth. Possible reason could be that some people are able to see things others are not, and the list goes on...