How hard to find SSBN

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Hyperen

Originally posted by devilwasp
u know what annoys me is that we put SOOO much money into projects we know will fail.
also y cant we just get a new rifle we spent what 38 mill on a fixing the SA-80 did it work ? nope it still jams
38 mill and what they come up wi a dust cover ! a fking dust cover!

They should replace that gun with HK G36 or US Army's prototype Assault Rifle if they cant afford it, which I doubt they can. The Government will probably say upgrade SA80. Fools

Man, you know the SA-80 looks soooo sweet, it is a real shame that they have such problems. As far as the US prototype, do you mean the OICW? If so, I doubt it - the US army isn't even going to be making them the regular rifle. It is going to replace the m-16A2 with the grenade launcher, and will also be given to SF units. The main problem with them (other then battery life, bulk ect ect) is that the 20mm ammo costs something like 20 dollars a round. If you are having funding problems, this would NOT be the way to go.

I meant the XM8 or I think its called something like that

Ahhh - yeah, that is part of the IOCW program - it would be the bottom part of the weapon system, and would fire the .223 NATO round

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by Hyperen

Originally posted by devilwasp
u know what annoys me is that we put SOOO much money into projects we know will fail.
also y cant we just get a new rifle we spent what 38 mill on a fixing the SA-80 did it work ? nope it still jams
38 mill and what they come up wi a dust cover ! a fking dust cover!

They should replace that gun with HK G36 or US Army's prototype Assault Rifle if they cant afford it, which I doubt they can. The Government will probably say upgrade SA80. Fools

Man, you know the SA-80 looks soooo sweet, it is a real shame that they have such problems. As far as the US prototype, do you mean the OICW? If so, I doubt it - the US army isn't even going to be making them the regular rifle. It is going to replace the m-16A2 with the grenade launcher, and will also be given to SF units. The main problem with them (other then battery life, bulk ect ect) is that the 20mm ammo costs something like 20 dollars a round. If you are having funding problems, this would NOT be the way to go.

I dont think they should choose something really expensive but i think the British Armed Forces deserve something a bit better than SA80 and their standard equipment for all their hard work. I read a lot of them have to spend lots of money buying their own stuff. This site says the boots that they are given melt if they are in the desert

www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk...

wow - now that is scary! if thats true, I can't believe anyone would actually join your Army.

"If you find a US SSBN and live to tell about it"

SSBN arent there to fight other submarines.

"Both Russian and U.S Subs are the the most suffisticated and most quietest SSBN's out there."

Russian subs will be much quiter as an SSBN rusting in a scrapyard produces no noise. If we are discussing active ones, they are possibly the loudest as they focus more on throwing as many nukes as possible, rather than being silent.

"Both Russian and U.S Subs are the the most suffisticated and most quietest SSBN's out there."

The difference between American and British SSBN is 4 launch tubes, although I think the British SSBN might carry the spearfish torpedo, which would make them better in combat. The British are a little smaller, so i would guess they would be a little quiter, but not much.

French submarine technology is at least a generation behind UK and USA, so they would be considerably louder.

"Also, are you 100% sure that the UK has no other nuclear delivery systems? I would imagine you at least have some kind of nuclear bombing system."

Nuclear warheads are in continuous production at Aldermaston, and at anytime the governement can ask Aldermaston to produce a WE177 bombs for air dropping at short notice if it was required, or start production of a new warhead if more time is provided for design and testing.

ppp u have got to be kidding about the russian subs being loud there quiet as hell u really think they would let it out if it wasnt
also france isnt that bad
thanks for the comliment about british subs but i mean man u goto be kidding me
hyperman dont believe everything u hear
i have a mate in the army and frankly his stuff was ok
i know a marine who for his squads minibus they have 2 gpmg's he went on a mission with 6 smokes ,5 frags ,a 48 hour bergen pack and he could of got more if he wanted and he was only out for about 6 hours
still i like the SA80 for 1 thing its sooo damm powerful
u cantt use it in room clearances because its so powerful it will go through the walls or at least try 2

Originally posted by devilwasp
ppp u have got to be kidding about the russian subs being loud there quiet as hell u really think they would let it out if it wasnt
also france isnt that bad
thanks for the comliment about british subs but i mean man u goto be kidding me
hyperman dont believe everything u hear
i have a mate in the army and frankly his stuff was ok
i know a marine who for his squads minibus they have 2 gpmg's he went on a mission with 6 smokes ,5 frags ,a 48 hour bergen pack and he could of got more if he wanted and he was only out for about 6 hours
still i like the SA80 for 1 thing its sooo damm powerful
u cantt use it in room clearances because its so powerful it will go through the walls or at least try 2

point taken on board but im sure there are some problems that shouldnt be happening

Being an active duty submariner on a Trident missile Submarine, I can tell you that we are very quiet. Are we the quitest Nuclear submarine? No. When the Virginia is finally commissoned, it will be the quietest Nuclear submarine.
Now, there is a difference between the sound levels generated by a Nuclear submarine, and a Diesel-Electric and now AIP (Air Independant Propulsion) submarines. A Nuclear submarine is constantly making noise by running pumps to keep water flowing around the reactor, Diesel-Electric and AIP submarines aren't running as much equipment because they don't have them, inherently making them quieter. When a Diesel boat is running on there batteries, good luck finding them (transients help) but when they run their Diesel, they can be found from just about anywhere.
As for British Missile subs, they too, are very quiet, and they carry the same missiles as US SSBN's. Think of taking out the missile compartment from an American Trident, and sticking it into a British bow and Engine Room. That's all they are.
Also, yes, American SSN's used to play Cowboy's and Indians with Russian subs, and they also did go active on Russian SSBN's all at once by command from higher up. They did that to say that " We know where you are, you can't hide, and as soon as you start making preperations to launch, you are going to die."
An interesting fact about American SSBN's is that they do not have an active SONAR set. That way, we won't make an errant transmission and give ourselves away. Another SSBN motto is "4 knots in a box". That is due to how we do our patrol in sectors.
But, I digress. American Trident SSBN's are very quiet, and very hard to detect. However, as soon as we launch, everyone will know where we are, and we are as good as dead.
So, I hope that helps some of you. If you guys want proof of what I say, I can't really divulge everything, but there are somethings that I can tell you. Just ask, and you shall recieve.

Originally posted by Brende
Being an active duty submariner on a Trident missile Submarine, I can tell you that we are very quiet. Are we the quitest Nuclear submarine? No. When the Virginia is finally commissoned, it will be the quietest Nuclear submarine.
Now, there is a difference between the sound levels generated by a Nuclear submarine, and a Diesel-Electric and now AIP (Air Independant Propulsion) submarines. A Nuclear submarine is constantly making noise by running pumps to keep water flowing around the reactor, Diesel-Electric and AIP submarines aren't running as much equipment because they don't have them, inherently making them quieter. When a Diesel boat is running on there batteries, good luck finding them (transients help) but when they run their Diesel, they can be found from just about anywhere.
As for British Missile subs, they too, are very quiet, and they carry the same missiles as US SSBN's. Think of taking out the missile compartment from an American Trident, and sticking it into a British bow and Engine Room. That's all they are.
Also, yes, American SSN's used to play Cowboy's and Indians with Russian subs, and they also did go active on Russian SSBN's all at once by command from higher up. They did that to say that " We know where you are, you can't hide, and as soon as you start making preperations to launch, you are going to die."
An interesting fact about American SSBN's is that they do not have an active SONAR set. That way, we won't make an errant transmission and give ourselves away. Another SSBN motto is "4 knots in a box". That is due to how we do our patrol in sectors.
But, I digress. American Trident SSBN's are very quiet, and very hard to detect. However, as soon as we launch, everyone will know where we are, and we are as good as dead.
So, I hope that helps some of you. If you guys want proof of what I say, I can't really divulge everything, but there are somethings that I can tell you. Just ask, and you shall recieve.

Thankyou very much. I found that quite enlightening

They should replace that gun with HK G36 or US Army's prototype Assault Rifle if they cant afford it, which I doubt they can. The Government will probably say upgrade SA80. Fools

This site says the boots that they are given melt if they are in the desert

THe SA80 looks good, but it is only as powrful as any other 5.56 rifle. If we hd to keep 5.56 i'd say go for M4 or G36 or an AK varient such as the M90. Otherwise, i'd say go for the G11.Caseless munitions baby!!! If not the G11 the P90. Thats on sickass SMG, practically a rifle.

The boots that melted were winter boots for cold weather, issued because of kit shortages. The actual desert boots are OK (even though i know some guy whose desert boots just fell apart, i think they were old though)


[Edited on 17-4-2004 by minimi]

[Edited on 17-4-2004 by minimi]

Originally posted by Brende
Being an active duty submariner on a Trident missile Submarine, I can tell you ...

Thanks for finally settling that with some proper facts Brende. Respect for being in the Navy, especially in one of those sardine tins.

mini are u saying a normal assualt rifle can shoot through walls like an sa80 ?

Originally posted by minimi

THe SA80 looks good, but it is only as powrful as any other 5.56 rifle. If we hd to keep 5.56 i'd say go for M4 or G36 or an AK varient such as the M90. Otherwise, i'd say go for the G11.Caseless munitions baby!!! If not the G11 the P90. Thats on sickass SMG, practically a rifle.

Caseless amo is no such big deal as you would think. Plus G11 ammo is only 4.7 mm. Thats too weak.

[Edited on 17-4-2004 by longbow]

[Edited on 18-4-2004 by longbow]

Well I'm glad to see that their is some one who is here with actual experience to set things straight.

All this 'my sub is bigger than yours' is soooo juvenille.

From what I understand most modern subs are deadly. Witness the recent RN exercise off the coast of Norway. One basic German built Norwegian manned SSK sank the entire RN fleet!!!

OK in a real war the RN would have taken more chances but that only shows how desprite the whole situation actual would have been.They certainly would have been at risk of loseing the carrier or the troop ship or both!

ANd some boozos what to turn the entire fleets of RN /USN ASW frigates into some multipurpose 'jack of all trades' Marine/Littioral warfare ship? And this is precisely at the time when SSK with AIP are all getting very good. Imagine if the RN exercise had been actually a USN MEU in a war action against Chinese or indian manned Kilos with their Mach 1 torpedo. The potential for disaster would have been enourmous.

AS far AS I can see if you don't have a advanced towed array with multi CZ detection and a hugh ASW helo like a EH-101 with an advanced low frequency dipping sonar, your surface fleets are going to be to vulnerable to serious coastal SSK threats.

This is why SSNs are so vitial , to bring the serious anti SSK capability to the enemies inshore 'white water' regions.



[Edited on 17-4-2004 by psteel]

Originally posted by minimi

They should replace that gun with HK G36 or US Army's prototype Assault Rifle if they cant afford it, which I doubt they can. The Government will probably say upgrade SA80. Fools

This site says the boots that they are given melt if they are in the desert

THe SA80 looks good, but it is only as powrful as any other 5.56 rifle. If we hd to keep 5.56 i'd say go for M4 or G36 or an AK varient such as the M90. Otherwise, i'd say go for the G11.Caseless munitions baby!!! If not the G11 the P90. Thats on sickass SMG, practically a rifle.

The boots that melted were winter boots for cold weather, issued because of kit shortages. The actual desert boots are OK (even though i know some guy whose desert boots just fell apart, i think they were old though)

Surely thats bad in itself isn't it. Equiping soldiers with winter boots who are going to see action in the desert

[Edited on 17/4/04 by Hyperen]

The best submarines in the world are the Portuguese navy's.. Diesel power yeah!! (we have two Daphn� class diesels) they're really silent when they're parked at the navy docks

I was wondering if the modern ships like A. Burke or Ticonderoga or projected future ships didn't have some kind of anti torpedo defense. You know - the sonar pics up enemy's torpedo and the ship then fires it's own against it and will destroy it in safe distance. Something like the underwater anti misile defense. Is something like this available today?

Dont even bring up Australias new subs....they are meant to sound like a rock concert underwater. Hope they play good music though ;P

well mabye its reverse physcology or somein?
or the bad guys will be too busy listening to the music that they get blown up!

Originally posted by devilwasp
mini are u saying a normal assualt rifle can shoot through walls like an sa80 ?

Well, 7.62 NATO,5.56 NATO, 7.62 Soviet, and 5.45 Soviet should all go through at least 1 brick wall, more likely a whole house. Solid stone is a slightly different story.
SMGs (sub-machineguns) probably won't go through walls because they only fire pistol ammo (BTW P90 is a SMG, but the bullet is shaped like a rifle round ==>)

and yeah, the G11 ammo is a bit weak, but the lack of cartridge casing means less weight to the ammo and no case ejection.