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Is California causing us to rethink Americas harsh prison for profit system?

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posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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When I read the headline that federal judges were asking the state of California to significantly reduce its overcrowded prison populations, it immediately got me thinking. The fact that Cals prisons are near 200% capacity is anything but a newsflash to state officials. This has been a constant tug of war between state and federal governments and has little to do with public safety. This is about funding and protection, but, sadly, what's being protected is the ever growing prison for profit industry.



www.examiner.com...

This, unfortunately, is a problem facing most every state in the U.S. and is simply caused by the laughable "War on Drugs" campaign spawned during the Reagan administration. This never ending so called war has really only this overburdening effect on prisons and working citizens to show for itself? After creating such strict laws regarding illegal substances, street drugs are as popular as they have ever been? The only real difference made seems to be the increased rate of, not only the incarcerations, but the hidden taxes, most of which are burdens shouldered by the working and middle class American citizens?



April 17, 2007
DEMOCRATS CONTINUE TO UNDERMINE WORKING POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS CALIFORNIANS by Hector M. Barajas,


Communications Director, California Republican Party "In a move this past week that could only be described as shortsighted, Assemblyman Josè Solorio, Chairman of the Assembly Public Safety Committee, stated that the committee had rejected Assembly member Jon Benoit's bill, AB 39, 'because in the past this type of proposal was unsuccessful in having the federal government reimburse for the cost of incarcerating undocumented immigrants.' It is this type of shortsighted rejection that continues to have many of our working poor and middle class fighting for the scraps that the majority party decides to leave behind.

"Illegal immigrants currently comprise 11.8% of our inmate population, with an estimated annual cost of $35,000 per inmate. 'California spends approximately $850 million each year to incarcerate undocumented convicts, with only a fraction of those costs reimbursed by the federal government.' 'Governor Schwarzenegger called for major increases to the President's budget, which proposes to cut SCAAP funding by lowering reimbursement to California by $85.6 million in 2007-08 and eliminating SCAAP reimbursement entirely beginning in 2008-09.'
www.svgop.com...



What federal funding doesn't pay for is made up by the state by taxation. These taxes are well hidden and applied to middle income workers and small businesses. Why are we housing illegal immigrants in grossly overpopulated American prisons? Think how much good $700 million annually could do, if only these non citizens were deported? Or how much money is being wasted on incarcerating people for possession of marijuana, or any illegal substance for personal use, for that matter?

If states like California can release thousands of these inmates, simply because they need to cut costs, doesn't that tell us they didn't really need to be locked away in the first place? The fact is most of these people are not criminals.

They are normal everyday people that happened to get caught up in the largest prison for profit system in the entire world. Taken away from their families and jobs simply because their choice of therapy happens to still be discriminated against. You can peacefully carry on all you want if you're therapy was purchased at the corner store or prescribed to you. It can be habit forming or even detrimental to your health, but as long as someone legislated it successfully, you will never be incarcerated for "legally" possessing it. Never!

Illegal drugs are causing unnecessary increases in taxes and prison populations, while legal drugs like nicotine, alcohol and prescription drugs are by far more dangerous. Death statistics from legal drugs are staggering when compared to illegal ones. Especially marijuana, a drug that has more than likely never killed anyone? Maybe

www.drug-rehabs.org...

Maybe it's time to rethink the rules in this country? Locking are citizens away in prisons for smoking pot is ridiculous. I don't smoke it, but I've known many harmless people that do. If I had to choose the biggest problems we are facing, their need for prison rehabilitation would never make the list! What do you think?




posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 04:54 PM
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public officials are always talking about more transparency? I think they're right, if only something was actually done about providing it? This would be a good place to have some. Transparency regarding all the hidden costs being applied to workers and small businesses, through taxation, to pay for things like this. We are obligated to demand this!



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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The only appropriate use of prisons is to protect civilians from those who are very dangerous and pose a threat to the physical safety. Nearly every other thing could be treated with either reparation of some kind, community service, education, job training even, often economic boosts
because the inequity and trauma endured by many breaks them (Norway has almost 0% murder rate and this proves this points, so social justice and substantive economic equality nearly eliminates all dangerous individuals, hmmmm). Also, legalizing drugs, so that only only the users are affected if they abuse the substance, which would naturally be cheaper, and do away with organized crime, including my belief of the cabal/cia's cut, and prostitution, child sex slave, starving children, you name it. It would be a very good thing to see!!!!

Bracelets work for most crimes as well, and house arrest. Thats what I'd like done to the cabal and our leaders if they get charged for treason and crimes against humanity, in a poor welfare style apartment, for years and years. But for ordinary citizens, just a few weeks or months should do it.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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they already tried a medical rehabiltation model in prisons in the 1970's..it failed horribly...far to expensive and most prisoners didnt want to "rehabiltate"..this isnt the product of private prisonazation(which cuts costs dramaticaly). its the product of far too stringent laws, mandatory minimum sentences, little police and/or judicial discretion, and the plumeting economy. crime is largley a survival instinct. you cant feed your family living the straight and narrow so you stray off the path into a life of crime. the system implemented more stringent sentencing guidlines because when america had a riddiculous amount of funds, the states would be alloted a bigger chunk of federal and state general expenditure tax funds when more peole were being sentenced to prison....this system is corrupt, failed, and causing states to hemorage finacialy...things must change durasticaly (but it wont).



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 05:13 PM
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"If states like California can release thousands of these inmates, simply because they need to cut costs, doesn't that tell us they didn't really need to be locked away in the first place? "

Yes it does tell us that. Using that line right there can start a whole new thread. We lock em up so the states get the money. Thats the only reason.
They say it costs $35,000 to inprison them, but Ibet its really less than that, cause if it wasnt less than that, they wouldnt be making any money(in myopinion) maybe Im wrong though. For them to let the prisoners go though based on financial status and not mental status just goes to show you that most of em didnt have problems from the get go, instead they get caught with something that shouldnt havebeen illegal in the first place.
Just think of all the money the state spent just to prosecute these people, let alone the money that we had to pay just to feed these nonviolents.
Stupid laws, made by stupid people.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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I agree with the OP and others that the system over-punishes people and needs to be changed. Especially drug stuff. It's totally out of hand.

The problem is there are a lot of little communities where the prision is literally the lifeblood of the community. It provides all the good jobs and pumps money into the local economy. take away the prisons and a lot of small towns/counties would literally shrivel up and die.

What needs to happen is, these places need to startt manufacturing stuff again. They were communities that were usually dependent on light manufacturing of stuff like small-time factories, etc. Then when all that moved overseas, they built "supermax" prisions so that the guys in the community who used to make spoons and paperclips or whatever could get 45K jobs as jailgaurds. What needs to happen is the prisons need to close and the light manufacting needs to come back from overseas so America has an actual economic base again and so that we aren't tossing harmless weed-bust offenders in with hardened criminals just so the good ole' boys in Cousin-grope County or wherever can make a living.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by silent thunder]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 08:57 AM
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Want to help the budget and give an incentive to never return to prison?

1. Bring back the chain gains and work parties instead of hiring illegal immigrants to do road work etc.

2. Bring back the firing squads for murderers, rapists, and child molestors.

3. No porn in the "prison library".

It's a freaking vacation for most of these repeat offending maggots. I love how one county in the NE recently purchased all high def TVs for all of their prisons. The morons actually said it was for the digital conversion. Ummmmm they're already hooked up to cable, no need for expensive TVs. Hell, why is there really a need for a TV at all? Give them a paper or a book. I don't even have a high def TV!



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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that didnt work in the past and it wont work now... trust me, punishment level isnt a sufficient deterent.... crime is usually a survival mechanism or a mental issue, its society thats the problem 75% of the time not the offender. sorry im A geek, i study this field extensivly


[edit on 15-2-2009 by invisibleman11]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by invisibleman11
that didnt work in the past and it wont work now... trust me, punishment level isnt a sufficient deterent.... crime is usually a survival mechanism or a mental issue, its society thats the problem 75% of the time not the offender. sorry im A geek, i study this field extensivly


[edit on 15-2-2009 by invisibleman11]


Not only is it a good deterrent the sorry SOB's won't get the chance to repeat their crime again. How many children have been raped by repeat offenders? One bullet would fix that forever.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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Yup - the War on Drugs was invented by the prison industry. Decades ago they started paying our congressgangsters to enact super-severe penalties for mere drug possession and the industry has prospered ever since.

The worst of all drug crimes and the only one deserving prison time is drunk driving since DUIs are killers and maimers. But rich white people commit DUI so congress lets drunk drivers get off w fines.!!!



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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With all the money saved going into social programs and equalizing incomes, so there are no poor or slaves, I imagine there will soon be very little crime, especially if drugs are gone. The real criminals are our leaders and the ones behind them pulling the strings!!!!



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by invisibleman11
. trust me, punishment level isnt a sufficient deterent.... crime is usually a survival mechanism or a mental issue, its society thats the problem 75% of the time not the offender.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by invisibleman11]


The biggest crime problem we have is criminal driving on the highways. That kills 40,000 americans every year and injures millions!!!. You really think drunk driving and speeding and red-light running are survival mechanisms??

People commit those crimes because they like to and the penalties are so slight. I guarantee that if speeders were hit with massive fines and loss of license, then speeding would be greatly reduced and thousands of lives and billions of $ would be saved every year.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 12:50 AM
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The prison system in Calif is a union system run by the democrats that run the state.
This is payoff for the money the democrats get from the prison guards and other unions that give them money to get elected,

You can NOT work at them unless you are a union company.

I worked for a non union generator repair company and they were the lowest bidder for a contract to maintain the generators at the state prisons for many years but we never got a contract because the state would never allow a non union company work in the system.

They used a lot of illegal tricks to keep us out.

This company was a Disabled Veteran-Owned Business Enterprises (DVBE) (a minority business company) and 95% of the employees were veterans many disabled.
www.cdva.ca.gov...

And the unions were able to block any contract we won and give the jobs to union companies.

Watch the Obama administration do the same thing.

Make many of the stumulis jobs union and then trade them for re-election support from the unions.

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ANNED]

[edit on 16-2-2009 by ANNED]



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by Make Speed Limit 45
 


If you read the post i said"crime is USUALLY a survival mechanism or a MENTAL ISSUE". Drunk driving is a mental issue. alchohol destroys motor function, inhibition, eye sight and overrall brain and nervous system functions. so dont attack me for what im trying to say



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45

Originally posted by invisibleman11
. trust me, punishment level isnt a sufficient deterent.... crime is usually a survival mechanism or a mental issue, its society thats the problem 75% of the time not the offender.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by invisibleman11]


People commit those crimes because they like to and the penalties are so slight. I guarantee that if speeders were hit with massive fines and loss of license, then speeding would be greatly reduced and thousands of lives and billions of $ would be saved every year.


hey you show me one study that proves more sringent sentencing reduces crime...there is none!! this is why the prisons are overcrowded and underfunded because of people like you. now they are letting out 1/3 of prisoners in cali.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by invisibleman11

Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45
[
People commit those crimes because they like to and the penalties are so slight. I guarantee that if speeders were hit with massive fines and loss of license, then speeding would be greatly reduced and thousands of lives and billions of $ would be saved every year.


hey you show me one study that proves more sringent sentencing reduces crime...there is none!! this is why the prisons are overcrowded and underfunded because of people like you. now they are letting out 1/3 of prisoners in cali.


You can't read. I didn't say throw speeders in prison. I said hit them w massive fines and loss of driver license.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by invisibleman11
[
If you read the post i said"crime is USUALLY a survival mechanism or a MENTAL ISSUE". Drunk driving is a mental issue. alchohol destroys motor function, inhibition, eye sight and overrall brain and nervous system functions. so dont attack me for what im trying to say


I ignored your "mental issue" excuse because everything is a mental issue.

Drunk driving is the biggest crime problem we have in america and i'm tired of people making excuses for them.



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Make Speed Limit 45
 


of course you ignored my "mental issue" argument because you dont want to look at the problem as a whole...you want to use emotion and nit pick your arguments...im not making excusees for anyone im just telling you how it is, and what the numbers state. no matter how expensive the states make speeding tickets, people still speed, no matter how many life sentences they hand out people still kill and rape...these things will never ever change no matter how hardcore the sentence is. history proves this over and over again. wasting taxpayer money for stupid manatory minimum sentcing guidlines then letting a third of them out is retarded and happens because of the mind sets of people like you



posted on Feb, 16 2009 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by invisibleman11
that didnt work in the past and it wont work now... trust me, punishment level isnt a sufficient deterent.... crime is usually a survival mechanism or a mental issue, its society thats the problem 75% of the time not the offender. sorry im A geek, i study this field extensivly


[edit on 15-2-2009 by invisibleman11]


This is an unfortunate fact of life. recently in Michigan, it was reported that a man, while committing armed robbery, humbly apologized to his victims throughout the entire ordeal. This man was not a common criminal, but merely trying to feed his family in his current economic situation. This is only one aspect of man using crime as a survival mechanism and provides proof to invisiblemans claims.

On the other hand, punishments do not fit most crimes in the US. Expecting any of these systems to be perfect is naive, but there are, however, many obvious flaws that should be considered. Pedophiles are coddled by judges that many times seem more their colleagues than their arbitrators? While pedophiles are punished with probation, drug possessors receive mandatory incarceration. Drunk driving offenders, contrary to some beliefs, are sometimes punished more severely than more hideous offenders due to mandatory sentence laws.

These are all examples of Americas corrupt systems and all a direct result of greed and influence. Judges and politicians can be bought. In fact, they have been way too many times and this is the outcome. Rules and laws are sadly what they have been bribed into being. You can pay for oversight, regulation and punishment to either be applied to someone else, or have it not applied to you. It all has been manipulated into what it is simply due to greed. This can be seen throughout our entire country, in all systems, and is ultimately destroying us. I hope for the day it finally cannot be tolerated any longer. Maybe then something will be done?



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