Am I just being stupid, or would you be irritated too?

Originally posted by Herman
I know that this guy is not after a friendship. Anyone with any common sense at all knows exactly what this guy is after, so what's the deal here? Am I being stupid for being kind of irritated, or do I have a valid point here? Ever been in this situation before?

Here is my take on it. As a female. If a woman chose not to hang out and be friends with any guys because they may want to get in her pants, she might as well choose not to associate with men at all.

No offense, but if you are a decent looking female, most of your male friends under the right circumstances would sleep with you. (most not if they were in a committed relationship, but you cant really even count on that.)

So, yes you are being silly for being irritated. It is highly impractical as a female to avoid hanging out with and being friends with men who might want to do you. If she has good judgment, and she doesnt drink heavily while studying, you probably have nothing to worry about. Women are used to dealing with people trying to convince them to sleep with them, (as adults anyway, children need protection) and unless he is a mad rapist I am sure she can handle him.

She probably already knows he wants to sleep with her, btw, women also know better than to tell their significant other that they are knowingly hanging out with a guy who is after them. It makes for drama at home.

You don't think there is anything wrong with her being (and putting herself) in situations where she's alone with this other guy?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



That's ridiculous!

Being friends with people who don't respect you as a human being is completely naive and disingenous. You have just basically invalidated OP's feelings. Not the makings of a good relationship (or a good friendship, for that matter).

thats just not wright! even if you try to explain to her she will say there no problem yea right..there is a problem in the others guy head..tell her ur uneasy and she should start avoiding him or she better look for a new bf O_o

reply to post by Gazrok


No. Not at all. Why should you have to avoid hanging out with men who want to sleep with you when it is a given that many will? Men are not always that discriminatory. I work in construction, and we all know about beer goggles. And mock the wearer of those goggles accordingly the next day.

It simply is not practical as a female to limit your male friends to gay men and pre-pubescent boys. You have to accept that when you are hanging out with a guy, he may be envisioning you naked instead of focusing on the task at hand. Its a fact of life, its natural, its no big deal.

The idea that women should be kept from all men that might want to sleep with them is what leads to the burqua, and segregation of the sexes. All so the male who feels he "owns the booty" can rest easy knowing no one else is "touching the booty." However, you dont own the booty. Its not yours, its hers, and if she wants to give it to that guy she will.

I would suggest you just dont worry about it. At all. If she cheats on you, dump her. Odds are, someone will cheat on you at some time. You can spend your life making yourself, (and your partner) crazy over it, or you can just let it go, and trust yourself. If it happens, you can handle it. You will recover from it. You can choose to accept her back as a cheater, or you can go find someone else and see if they are loyal. Obsessing over someone elses genitals is just silly. You cant control it. And the more you try to control it, the more unpleasant you make the relationship for your partner, and the more likely they are to seek someone else.

The only thing about this situation that makes me question the girl at all is why she would tell the OP about him acting weird. Most women will never tell their boyfriend if a co-worker or class mate wants to do them. Its just easier than coming home with a list at the end of the day of every guy you met who might want to sleep with you, and it avoids this jealousy issue.

She is obviously young, (college) so it may just be inexperience, but she may also be trying to make the OP jealous. In which case he should dump her. People who play that "oooo everyone wants me, arent you jealous" game are more trouble than they are worth. It never ends, they have a pathological need for attention, and in the end, you will not be able to hold them. People who are attention whores will eventually jump the fence. No normal human being can sustain the early passionate obsessive stage of a relationship indefinitely, and thats the part the attention seekers need.

So, no, I would not worry about her at all. Make your feelings known, make your bottom line clear, (if you cheat, thats it) and then go about your business. Dont make yourself crazy over him or her. Thats not love. Thats possessiveness. I have had male friends I know have crushes on me and I have never so much as held their hand. Women only cheat if they want to. The other thing is called rape. If he isnt a rapist, and she is as loyal as you say, there is nothing the guy can do. Except try to make you crazy and obsessive enough that you drive her into his arms.

Just say no to that.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

That's ridiculous!

Being friends with people who don't respect you as a human being is completely naive and disingenous.

How does knowing a guy wants to sleep with you have anything to do with his respect for you as a human being? Men have sexual thoughts every couple minutes. Who cares? They respect me, because they honor my feelings about wanting to be friends, and not take it further. Wanting to sleep with someone has nothing to do with respect, what an odd idea. If he thought she was just a sex toy, he wouldnt be studying with her, he wouldnt waste the time. Men dont hang out with women for long periods, (weeks months years) unless they have some human interest in the girl as well as a sexual one. Men who dont respect you come up, bust a move, when they get the brush off, they leave. They invest no time.

You have just basically invalidated OP's feelings. Not the makings of a good relationship (or a good friendship, for that matter).

I havent invalidated anything. I gave my opinion, my perspective. He can take it or leave it. And, I am not looking for a relationship with him, so I dont understand how you mean that. We also arent good friends, but if we were, I would have told him exactly the same thing. Validating his feelings. Lol. What does that mean? I should just say he is right to feel the way he does? He HAS a right to feel the way he does, but in my opinion, it is just counterproductive and pointless to continue that way. If the OP just wants everyone to agree with him, he should not phrase it as a question, and I would not have answered at all.





[edit on 24-3-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Well just being honest as a guy,I don't keep female friends...I only have female friends that I haven't slept with YET.Judge me as you want,its ok to disagree.
Regarding the OP,If you have to think that much about it then let her go.
If you wanted to play games I am sure there is a board game nearby.
Its not a chess game its a head game.
Kick her ass to the curb and find someone who won't put you through this garbage.
Theres soooo many women in the world,why bother with the games?

Originally posted by DrumsRfun

Well just being honest as a guy,I don't keep female friends...I only have female friends that I haven't slept with YET.Judge me as you want,its ok to disagree.

I dont care what you do, if you were hoping for a rant. Its no skin off my nose. There are women who are incapable of seeing men as anything other than an ATM machine as well, so you just add balance to the universe in my humble opinion.

I dont expect every single human being on the planet to want to be my friend. I dont want to be friends with every single person on the planet either. Who would have time for that?

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I am not looking for a rant at all...I can do that off the boards.
I was just being honest.
Sorry for going off topic.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
How does knowing a guy wants to sleep with you have anything to do with his respect for you as a human being? Men have sexual thoughts every couple minutes. Who cares? They respect me, because they honor my feelings about wanting to be friends, and not take it further. Wanting to sleep with someone has nothing to do with respect, what an odd idea. If he thought she was just a sex toy, he wouldnt be studying with her, he wouldnt waste the time. Men dont hang out with women for long periods, (weeks months years) unless they have some human interest in the girl as well as a sexual one. Men who dont respect you come up, bust a move, when they get the brush off, they leave. They invest no time.

You seem to make a lot of generalizations about men. It seems like you have a bit of haterade in your system.

A man, or a woman, who sees you as just meat on a stick is not going to respect you.

Don't kid yourself, and being some sort of creepy stalker is not a respectable personality trait.

While Freakazoid is not having sex with her, he could be masturbating to her or even having sex with other people. "Waiting" doesn't always mean "good intentions."

You have just basically invalidated OP's feelings. Not the makings of a good relationship (or a good friendship, for that matter).

I havent invalidated anything. I gave my opinion, my perspective. He can take it or leave it.

You basically told him that he was 100% wrong and his gf was 100% right. I didn't mean that you want a relationship with the OP. I meant that dismissing someone else's concerns outright without understanding them is not how you build any relationship.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

You seem to make a lot of generalizations about men. It seems like you have a bit of haterade in your system.

Sorry. Wrong person. I get along just fine with men, have had the most excellent male role models, and friends. I work in construction for Gods sake. My degree is in philosophy, another male dominated field. So you are going to have to look elsewhere to dump your intellectually lazy "man hating" argument. You just cant make the facts fit the charge.


You are right about generalization, however, it is wrong to say all men do that. Just most of the guys I work with. Maybe the guys I work with just have more testosterone than the average guy. That could well be. That guys think of sex frequently thing is just a piece of folk knowledge, which I do not have proof beyond a reasonable doubt is true, but I dont know many guys who refute it. The guys I know cant refute it. I work with them. They have a short link from brain to mouth.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
A man, or a woman, who sees you as just meat on a stick is not going to respect you.

I dont lack respect for a man I think is hot and I would want to... do stuff with, were I single. I can have the utmost respect for him and still think he is a tasty bit of flesh. The two simply are not mutually exclusive.

Besides, you dont get respect from other people. You command it. Or not. I dont get treated disrespectfully. I get treated very well by the vast majority of people I meet. I also treat them with respect. I also tend not to socialize with people who are lacking in good character. Respect has more to do with how you feel about yourself than something others owe you or give you. I have self respect, and I dont put up with things I find disrespectful, and I am treated accordingly.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Don't kid yourself, and being some sort of creepy stalker is not a respectable personality trait.

Interesting leap you are making here. She chooses to study with him and hang out with him. Thats not stalking. Having a crush on someone who happens to be in a relationship in college is not creepy. People of that age change their minds. If you really like someone, odds are, they may become available at some point.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
While Freakazoid is not having sex with her, he could be masturbating to her or even having sex with other people.

You are putting waaaaay too much visualization into this. Lol. You are right, however, he may well be. So what? What business is it of any of ours what he imagines while masturbating? He could be tossing to the muppets for all I care. Its just not my business what another human being does to them self in the privacy of their own home.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
"Waiting" doesn't always mean "good intentions."

Nor does wanting to hook up with a person mean you have bad intentions. Its clear he wants to get with her. So what? So did the OP. Does he have "bad intentions" because he thought she was hot and wanted her? She has a mind, she has choice. She picked the OP.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You basically told him that he was 100% wrong and his gf was 100% right.

No I didnt. I told him he should not worry about it. Just the fact that she was hanging out with a guy that had feelings towards her was not reason enough to worry. Then in another post I said that worrying about it was just counter productive. If she is going to cheat, there is nothing you can do about it except dump her after the fact, or before the fact if you think she is playing a game with you. How is that taking her side 100%? I dont know her at all. If I am on anyones "side" here it is his. I just dont think it is in his best interests to get all wound up over that guy, or her. My BF goes to have dinner at his female friends houses. Why should I care? He has known them longer than he has known me, if he wanted to hook up with them, I would guess he would have by now. If he does end up hooking up with them and I ever find out, I will dump him. What I wont do is spend my time worrying about it. Thats just no way to live.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
I didn't mean that you want a relationship with the OP. I meant that dismissing someone else's concerns outright without understanding them is not how you build any relationship.

I read all of his posts in the thread. I dont have the opportunity to sit and have tea with the guy. You dont seem to be that worried about taking your own advice when it comes to my concerns and feelings. You seem right on the attack when, unless the OP is your sock puppet, what I posted doesnt even concern you.

And I am not looking to build a relationship with the OP. I was just posting in a thread. I have seen this whole type of scenario play out many times. I have seen it from my female friends sides and from my male friends sides. And, like I posted, I have noticed time and again that getting all freaked out about what your significant other MIGHT do, is a recipe for disaster. Not only do you spend your time worrying over something you have no control over, but you tend to make the significant other resent your possessiveness and jealousy. (if the significant other is emotionally healthy, any way, as I said if she is the type who needs jealousy, he is doing exactly what she wants, and if she is a game player and if HE is emotionally healthy, he should dump her) And thats not a gender issue at all. Women who get all paranoid and clingy tend to get dumped too, unless the guy is the type who likes drama as well.

Bottom line, you either trust the person you are with, or you dont. If you dont, you are in the wrong relationship. If you do, then what the other guy does is of no consequence. (unless you really believe he is going to harm her physically or rape her) It goes back to that respect thing. If the OP feels strongly that her having the guy in her house is disrespectful to him, he should just tell her that while he trusts that she is faithful he feels it is a respect issue and let her know that if she continues he will walk. If she cares enough about his feelings and does not feel his position is disrespectful of her, she will stop. If she feels his response is controlling and disrespectful of her, she wont. But thats about him setting personal boundaries, not whether or not what she is doing is inherently "bad." If he trusts her, and doesnt feel that it is a respect issue he is willing to walk over, then it shouldnt matter where they study. Either way, its about her and him, not him and the other guy.

Originally posted by Herman
Ok, let me preface this by saying that I in no way distrust my girlfriend. I know that she's not cheating on me -- that's not the issue. It's important to get that out of the way before I tell you what's going on.

I can only answer this with a personal story.

My ex-girlfriend met a guy at a new job, complained to me how his feet smelled, and that some day would confront him. I noticed that I was not invited to the staff parties and stuff, I sort of inquired, but I had a feeling. One day months later, she went to see his apartment. The smelly feet guy was now friends. A few months later I realized the relationship was not meeting my needs, and ended it. I had a chance of heart, and went to her house, and guess who was there overnight. They are now married.

I am happy for her. It hurt a little at the time, however these things happen, I was unsure, and let him get in the door.

My take on it, is that she is not being 100% honest, but not that she is fooling around, but there is something about this guy she likes. This happens in life, people have crushes all the time on other people, it does not have to go anywhere. You can just take it all in, and take the high road and hope for the best. Chances are if you break up, she might go out on a date with him, who knows where it will go, and really it is not your concern.

So for now, you do not have a choice, if you allow him to cause a rift it gives him an in, and those friend feelings she had with maybe an innocent attraction might be given a chance to grow. Focus on your own relationship, continue to give her the trust, and just trust all is well. If you do anything else in my opinion, you will actually bring into reality you already know, you know she likes this guy on some level, and you feel jealous a little, however jealously is simply part of most peoples experience.

Whether you choose to let the jealously run your life is up to you. As a note, do not discuss this guy anymore with her, just nod your head, did you have a good time, he seems like a nice guy, he could come over for supper sometime, etc. If the guy knows you it makes it less likely for him to make a move.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Sorry. Wrong person. I get along just fine with men, have had the most excellent male role models, and friends. I work in construction for Gods sake. My degree is in philosophy, another male dominated field. So you are going to have to look elsewhere to dump your intellectually lazy "man hating" argument. You just cant make the facts fit the charge.

So then you have learned to become complacent.

That guys think of sex frequently thing is just a piece of folk knowledge

Again, not all guys, just the guys that you personally respect.

They have a short link from brain to mouth.

"Intellectual laziness" on the part of those fellows as well, or just men in general?

I dont lack respect for a man I think is hot and I would want to... do stuff with, were I single. I can have the utmost respect for him and still think he is a tasty bit of flesh. The two simply are not mutually exclusive.

The difference between that scenario and the OP's is that Freakazoid experienced sexual tension before trying to spark up a "friendship."

Besides, you dont get respect from other people. You command it.

"Command it" by being defiant and combative?

I also tend not to socialize with people who are lacking in good character.

There ya go, you think that men who are one-track minded demonstrate "good character."

She chooses to study with him and hang out with him. Thats not stalking. Having a crush on someone who happens to be in a relationship in college is not creepy.

Actually, yeah, fixating on someone who is unavailable is kinda weird. She went into it knowing already that he wants to hit it. Is she expecting to placate him? That would be a victim mentality.

So what? What business is it of any of ours what he imagines while masturbating? He could be tossing to the muppets for all I care. Its just not my business what another human being does to them self in the privacy of their own home.

My point is that he's not just some smitten lovebird, he's a Freakazoid. Take the situation for what it is.

Nor does wanting to hook up with a person mean you have bad intentions. Its clear he wants to get with her. So what? So did the OP. Does he have "bad intentions" because he thought she was hot and wanted her? She has a mind, she has choice. She picked the OP.

That's one of my biggest issues with this situation. My opinion is that after high school, it's not good to just go around hooking up.

That's the point. She's not exercising any choice, but just going with the flow.

No I didnt. I told him he should not worry about it.

Which is a kinder, gentler way of saying "You're 100% wrong."

Just the fact that she was hanging out with a guy that had feelings towards her was not reason enough to worry. Then in another post I said that worrying about it was just counter productive.

Maybe you tend to act counter-productive when you worry, but don't paint everybody with that same brush.

If she is going to cheat, there is nothing you can do about it except dump her after the fact, or before the fact if you think she is playing a game with you.

Maybe they just aren't good for each other, and are wasting each other's time?

How is that taking her side 100%?

It's taking her side 100% because:

• She would give up 0
  
• He would get 0
  

I dont know her at all. If I am on anyones "side" here it is his.

That's hilarious. You're keeping your distance, and yet you're on his side. Brilliant!

You dont seem to be that worried about taking your own advice when it comes to my concerns and feelings.

You don't express your own concerns and feelings by telling other people to just get over their problems.

Bottom line, you either trust the person you are with, or you dont.

I've already said that she isn't trustworthy.

Wow, I did not expect this many replies. Sorry for kind of abandoning the thread as of late. I think an update is in order.

It can be kind of a long story because of all of the small seemingly meaningless details that seem to become meaningful in situations like this, so I'll try to make it short. It all worked out very well. It climaxed a few weeks ago when she texted me telling me that she was going rock climbing. I asked "Who with?" and she, as I suspected, tells me that she's going with the guy. I didn't freak out or anything, just expressed a little concern and told her that we should talk about this the next time I see her (Which would be the following day.) To be honest, I was pretty irritated by this, but I didn't really let it show much. I was prepared to break it off if I had to, but I didn't think that it would go that route, nor did I want it to. When I finally got to her place and we started talking about it, I learned that she not only brought a friend along with her, but also told the guy flat out that she has a boyfriend and that she doesn't feel that it's right for the two of them to be making these little excursions on their own. Mind you, I did not pressure her or tell her to say this -- she did it out of her own free will. Most of the same stuff that came up in our initial conversation, as well as most of the stuff in this thread, came up again and we talked it all through. I didn't tell her that she can't hang out with him, but I did make my feelings very clear, that I do trust her, etc. etc.

Since then, he's backed off almost 100%, we're spending more time together than ever and getting closer, and I think the whole situation helped our relationship a little bit. We took a road trip through California together over spring break, she wants me to visit her while she's home for the summer, and that other guy is almost completely out of the picture. I sort of get the feeling that he made a move and she was able to him for what he really was. She seemed to go from "Oh, he just wants to be friends," to "Yeah, you're right" awfully fast, and now he's not texting her, messaging her on myspace, visiting her at work, or anything.

Still, I'm not naive. I've had my heart broken before. I know that most people cheat, that most relationships end miserably, that the divorce rate is over 50%, etc. etc. But for now, I'm happy and in a good relationship.

Illusionsaregrander,

I appreciate your opinion and your honesty. Having a degree in philosophy, I think you will appreciate my logic here. There is a difference between a man finding a female friend sexy, and a man making friends with a female because he finds her sexy. I've certainly made female friends before with no intentions of having sex with them only to later look at them and think "Wow, if we'd met under different circumstances..." Personally, I'd never have sex with a female friend of mine, no matter how hot she looked. I know that I would either develop deeper feelings for her, or that it would ruin the relationship for one reason or another, and if I really cared about her as a friend and not as a potential sex partner, that's not something that I would want to happen. The guy in my situation was very clearly trying to get with her, and only when he learned that she had a boyfriend did he maneuver into the "friend" category. You are correct that the majority of men probably do have sexual urges on some level towards their attractive female friends, but there is a huge difference between a real friend and someone who is just waiting for an opportunity. I can see your point that it would be impractical for a woman to discount any male friend who might find her sexy, but that doesn't mean it's impractical to discount the ones that are clearly after her FOR the sex, especially if she already has a boyfriend. In fact, being friends with someone who is after you because he wants to be in a relationship with you does more harm than good. His feelings will most likely grow, and he'll have to watch you running around with a bunch of different guys who never quite cut it while he sits there just wishing you'd give him a chance.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Ive got an idea. Why dont you stick to the topic and not make this about me?

Did I hurt your little feelings somewhere along the line? In another thread perhaps?

Because this thread isnt about me, and guess what? It isnt about you either. Its about the OP. I answered his question, whether you like that answer or not. He doesnt have to listen to what I said or care at all. You certainly dont have to like it or care at all either.

But what you are up to here is just a mystery to me. If you have some latent hostility, either keep it to yourself, or bring it out in the open instead of hinting around at it like a coward. I dont want to play your silly little game of "Oooh your a MAN hater. OOooo." Convince yourself of whatever you want to in regard to me, your opinion of me is of no consequence at all. Its not the topic, and I just dont care.

reply to post by Herman


Thanks for the update - I was hoping to hear how things turned out.

Glad to know things are so much better between you.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Herman
Illusionsaregrander,

I can see your point that it would be impractical for a woman to discount any male friend who might find her sexy, but that doesn't mean it's impractical to discount the ones that are clearly after her FOR the sex, especially if she already has a boyfriend.

Yes, I do see your point, but as your earlier post outlined, she handled it. And that was my basic point. Its just not a boyfriend or girlfriends position to dictate the friendships of the other party. If he pushes the issue, and she is really in love with you, she will most likely end up having to break off the friendship. But, if she is everything you said she was in the OP, you shouldnt worry. All it could do is make you look like you are trying to control her. And perhaps insult her intelligence. And perhaps leave her feeling you are insecure. None of which are good things to feel about the person you love.

Trust goes a long way in a relationship. My BF can go out drinking and carousing with his friends if he wants, (he doesnt often, but thats his choice) he can go on long camping and fishing trips. He can hang out with his female friends. Its his life. I dont own him. Ditto for me. I do what I want to do. He has had concerns about a male friend of mine before, when we first got together. And I did not break off the friendship. I told him I was a big girl and could handle it myself, thank you very much. I respect his feelings, but in my relationship, he is the more jealous one, and if he wants to stay in this relationship he needs to deal with it. His jealousy is his problem. Not mine. I have never cheated on anyone, ever, and unless I get hit on the head and get amnesia, I am certain I never will. I would break up first, if it ever came to that. I managed to get this far along in life without him telling me who to hang out with and I dont need anyone starting that up now.

It is insulting for him to think that I cannot figure out what is going on, and also figure out what to do about it. If a guy did become a pest about his feelings and started ruining the friendship with it, I would break off the friendship. On my own. Because I did not want to put up with it. Not because of my boyfriend. Do you see what I am saying? Its just not respectful of your boyfriend or girlfriend to try to dictate their life. Its respectful to trust them, and trust in their intelligence and social skills, and let them lead their lives. Relationships shouldnt become prisons, nor should they be "two people becoming one." They should be two people who love each other and respect each other and choose to be together. Freely. Not because of handcuffs. Or guilt.

Originally posted by Herman
In fact, being friends with someone who is after you because he wants to be in a relationship with you does more harm than good. His feelings will most likely grow, and he'll have to watch you running around with a bunch of different guys who never quite cut it while he sits there just wishing you'd give him a chance.

But again, it is that guys responsibility if he gets his feelings hurt watching her date someone else. Once you tell someone, "I am with someone else." You have done your job. A female is not responsible for the feelings of both her boyfriend and all potential men who might want to date her. They are all responsible for their own feelings. I dont chase after men who dont want to date me. If I like someone and they move me into the friend zone, I take the hint. It isnt hard. If I am so gut wrenchingly enamored that I cant bear to watch him with someone else, I should move out of the friend zone and let him get on with his life, but it isnt HIS responsibility to twist his life around because of me and my feelings. He may genuinely want to keep me as a friend and hope my hormones settle down enough over time to make that feasible.


Another good thing about not trying to control your BF or GF is that you can tell more about someones true feelings for you by watching their actions than by what comes out of their mouth. If you tell them how to act, what to do, you never know if they are doing it because thats how they really feel about you, or if they are doing it just to avoid a fight. I have seen plenty of very controlling people in my life, who have their BF or GF on a leash, and call them all the time, and want to know who they are seeing, and why, when they will be home, yadda yadda, and honestly, those are the people I see getting cheated on the most. Its almost like the other one decides "if you are going to control me, I will prove you cant."

I am just glad it is all working out for you. I think you handled it just right, tell her how you feel and let it go. And I think you got a pretty good result. Like you said, she managed him all on her own. Good luck in your relationship, it sounds like it may be a very good one. Every relationship has its little quirks now and then, and trust and tolerance go a long way to keeping things good.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



My original response to this post was summarily deleted and I was penalized 1000 points.

Does that make you happy?