Breaking News: Two Satellites Collide In Orbit

Originally posted by AceOfAces
I may be wrong but isn't that ridiculously rare?

With all the space up there, what are the chances?

Doesn't seem like a conspiracy, just really odd and random frankly.

It would seem that way wouldn't it?

But, if you consider that there are hundreds of satellites, whizzing round, all the time - they never stop! An orbit takes just a matter of minutes, so just one satellite can make hundreds of orbits in a day.

Then if you consider that every time satellites orbits come close, you are effectively rolling the dice, and that probably happens millions of times every day above our heads... give it a bit of time and the outcome is inevitable, when such large numbers are involved.

Check out some links here, here, and here for some info about how us humans perceive chance/randomness.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by C.H.U.D.]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by ngchunter

 

What if it contianed materials effective at resisting heat? There are many advancements in materials that we are not priviy to.

Why would it be? It was never designed to reenter or return to earth.

That's what they look like. Shiny metal = vaporized metal. That's also why they're very reflective to the point that they can be seen in broad daylight momentarily when the sun hits them just right. Angle of reentry is also important - if the shuttle comes in too steep it'll burn up despite being very heat resistant.

reply to post by ngchunter


I didnt hear anywhere in that post

"I know every material that it is made out of because nasa is full of people who are ready and willing to disclose and materials the satalites are composed of or contain"

Because unless you say that everything else is ignorant.

Originally posted by Wertdagf

What if it contianed materials effective at resisting heat? There are many advancements in materials that we are not priviy to.

Cue Zorgon's pics of the crashed Russian rocket-booster made from carbon-fiber...

I think that's unlikely in this case. As NGC says, the impact appears to have been forceful enough to obliterate both sats, so there may be no big pieces left, and since the altitude was so great, the majority won't decay for many years to come.

One figure I've heard is around 10 KG per year for the next decade. Most of that is likely to be minute debris particles, less than 1mm in size.

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


So they hit square on at 10,000 miles per hour? even the position of their solar panels would have to be allinged to allow for TOTAL distruction. Were any of them useing nuclear power? what about any other possible secretly "weaponised" satalites? I dont think we would get to know ANY inforamtion in advanced materials given its detremental to that countries superiority in space.



[edit on 12-2-2009 by Wertdagf]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
So they hit square on at 10,000 miles per hour? even the position of their solar panels would have to be allinged to allow for TOTAL distruction.

It's actually 25,950 miles per hour, and at that speed, any impact is going to be like a mini-nuke going off. No fissile/explosive materials are needed. Much of the mass of both satellites would have been vaporised in an instant.

You can't really think of it in the same terms as we are used to here on the ground due to the extreme velocity involved.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Were any of them useing nuclear power?

Apparently not:

UPDATE: Rumors are circulating that the debris is radioactive. Not true. These satellites were not nuclear powered.

Source: spaceweather.com

Originally posted by Wertdagf

"I know every material that it is made out of because nasa is full of people who are ready and willing to disclose and materials the satalites are composed of or contain"

Nasa didn't build any satellite involved. Now I can't vouch for what's in the Russian sat, but given the orbit it's likely to be a comm or recon sat. As mentioned before, the sheer velocity involved would have resulted in complete destruction, but in any case there's no reason to suspect that Iridium used highly heat resistant materials in their satellites' construction, there'd simply be no reason to. Ironically, the materials that are most heat resistant also tend to be very fragile and would have fragmented so severely that they'd be insignificant.

Originally posted by g raj
I wonder if our planet is a big cosmic joke, kind of like that redneck uncle with an old impala on blocks in the front yard, and a couple mangy dogs and dirty kids eating from the same bowl. We could be the backwater jerks of the galaxy for all we know, throwing our trash wherever.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by g raj]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.
As frustrating as it is to see someone be so careless about their property.
The end result of objects found on the yard is well worth the laugh.
It's like looking at an eye spy book.

reply to post by ngchunter

I don't worry about the military, my family is military, and I do not accept the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Even if I did accept it, you're begging the question. Furthermore, why would russia care 8 years after the fact?

Not 8 years from 911, like months from US interference in Russia's
latest military action where the gas pipeline to Europe was being tampered
with.

US policy was to brand Russia the bad guy even though they went after
a US siding country that was stealing gas.

Well guess Connie Rice needs no secret Iridium phone just to tell some
country we back their freedom and we support them even when we don't.

911 would need more than an Iridium phone and went off without
a satellite phone as far as we can tell. The story ended when the
hijackers were plastered on the front page of every newspaper the
next day. However Osama was well equipped with phones of some
sort.

Did Russia find an Iridium phone in the office of the head of the
country that was taking gas to Europe and had the US officially
espousing is rights to freedom.

Still a far fetched reason for Russia to target Iridium.
If the government right or wrong is no issue then secure phones
is no issue either, it happens with out sat phones.
I feel the gateway to the wrong side is just made easier or at least
a gray area of relevance.

If anyone wants to track the positions of the debris clouds using the Orbitron sat tracking software that Zeptepi recommended, I've uploaded a TLE file containing the orbital elements of both debris clouds here. All you have to do is put the file in the Orbitron subdirectory 'Tle', run the software, then click 'Load TLE', and select the file 'Irid33-Cosmos.txt'



The really nice thing about this software (there are lots actually!), is that it plays a warning sound whenever a selected object or objects become visible, so this software can be used as a 'proximity warning'!

It surprised me the first time it happened, but I'll get used to it

Has anyone tried to observe the debris visually yet? If not, download the bits you need and have some binoculars close to hand! Come on ATS! Lets try to be the first to visually observe the debris!

[edit on 12-2-2009 by C.H.U.D.]

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


That is outstanding C.H.U.D.
I am glad that you got it working on your machine!
I kinda gave up after my last snafu..
Off to try it.

For you astronomy fans, it also tracks RA and DEC for your location.

I dont have any t-scope but I will try my celestron 10x50's
I hope you guys do see it first.

Thanks!

reply to post by Alxandro


the most sophisticated systems monitor these satellites and with the use of space geometry, gravitational laws, copernicus, kepler and Isaac Newton, they can plot the trajectory of all these space objects and make adjustments using their retro rockets.. I would surmise that if one satellite hit another I would say it was done deliberately......

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Not 8 years from 911, like months from US interference in Russia's
latest military action where the gas pipeline to Europe was being tampered
with.

US policy was to brand Russia the bad guy even though they went after
a US siding country that was stealing gas.

Well guess Connie Rice needs no secret Iridium phone just to tell some
country we back their freedom and we support them even when we don't.

While I take serious issue with your assement of that invasion, it's quite off-topic so I'll leave it alone. I really don't understand how you jumped subjects so fast, but I think your assumptions regarding the use of satellite phones in international conspiracies demonstrates a basic lack of understanding regarding the technology. Satellite phones only work out doors with a clear line of sight to the sky. The last thing any international conspirator would want to do is build a conspiracy that requires stepping outside every time they need to call someone, right out in the open for every other nation's spy sats to see. Doesn't matter who you are, you probably don't want your activities viewed by all.

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
Has anyone tried to observe the debris visually yet? If not, download the bits you need and have some binoculars close to hand! Come on ATS! Lets try to be the first to visually observe the debris!

[edit on 12-2-2009 by C.H.U.D.]

I would, but there are no good viewing opportunities for me until march. In order to see it the pass must occur at just the right time, within an hour or so of sunset or sunrise, when it's dark on the ground but the satellite is still illuminated.

Maybe it blew up above Tunguska?

Havn't really been following this, first thing that popped into my head...

After Witnessing our supposed shoot down of our defunct satellite about this time last year I'm thinkin the timing is too coincidental for me.

Maybe I'll have to explore further now...dang you guys...

I wonder whether the collision being discussed here is in any way related to the subject of another thread on ATS?

400 square kilometer flash in Russian skies

I looked on the thread and in the associated link but couldn't find out when exactly this flash is supposed to have happened. The satellites collided on 10 February, correct?

By the way, I thought Agent Stiletto's post was cool cloak and dagger stuff. The link was a great read.

reply to post by Astyanax


It unlikely to be related to the collision. The video clearly shows a bright prolonged flash, which I don't think is compatible with a collision like the one in question.

The timings are out too...


---

NGC - I'll probably be away, so no hope for me seeing them in the next 24 hrs at least.

This is strange. Everything we have in orbit, functioning or garbage, is tracked. That has been known for a long time.
So, first of all, it would be strange if this was a surprise.

Second, I don't think people appreciate the huge amount of space we are talking about. Much, much more than even the entire surface of the earth.
The chances of 2 individual devices colliding, instead of a cloud of debris being involved, are very, very low.

This should not have happened.

reply to post by SumnerKagan


Lots of things shouldn't happen. Apollo 13 shouldn't have had faulty wiring in the cryo tank, Challenger should never have been launched in temperatures that low, engineers should not have ignored the track history of foam shedding that lead to Columbia being destroyed, all three situations involved someone assuming that the bad thing "wouldn't happen." 99 times out of 100 they might have been right, but eventually something is going to go wrong. There are close calls with satellite conflicts all the time. This was a one-in-a-million hit with about a million other close calls that didn't result in this. Sure, every satellite is tracked, but the question is, is it being tracked often and accurately enough? There's always a level of uncertainty, and when a thousandth of a second makes the difference between a direct hit and a near miss, uncertainty can lead to catastrophy.

[edit on 13-2-2009 by ngchunter]

Iridium says in dark before orbital crash

Iridium didn't have information prior to the collision to know that the collision would occur," said Liz DeCastro, a company spokeswoman. "If the organizations that monitor space had that information available, we are confident they would have shared it with us."

She was responding to questions about an 18-month-old presentation by retired U.S. Air Force General John Campbell, Iridium's executive vice president for government programs.

Iridium had been receiving a weekly average of 400 conjunction reports from the U.S. Strategic Command's Joint Space Operations Center that tracks debris in space, Campbell told a June 2007 forum hosted by the George C. Marshall Institute, a Washington research group.

We know whats going on in orbit, yeah sure we do.

Looks like the old Russian satellite had move down in orbit.