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I'd like to ask you all a question

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posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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I can't stop you from lying to yourselves or to me. Frankly, I no longer have faith in human beings even possessing the capacity to tell the truth, anymore, but it would help me out if you would refrain from using this as an opportunity to role play or posture. If you can't be 100% blunt and honest, then I would appreciate it if you would just not respond to this question.

First, where I'm coming from. The psychopaths are in charge. They dress well, speak well, and enjoy the privileges of power. They have optimal health care, their children are better fed, educated, and can look forward to more open doors than other kids. Psychopathy is heritable.

Jesus isn't going to save us. Space People are not going to save us. No one is going to save us - not even ourselves.

In fact, the biggest movement that some interpret as a relief is actually incredibly insidious and evil. Some of you know about the "Aquarium", and I have been trying to understand their goal for years, and have only found one way that it makes sense. To wit, we have all been pretty much free-range delusionals, uncoordinated in our various denials, sublimations, and rationalizations we employ to avoid reality. But look around you. NWO. UFO space brothers. This website and all of its staff and contributors are helping us to coordinate our delusions and to lose ourselves in them. Traditional propaganda has lost its charm and has fallen in the wake of a new form of control. The goal seems to be to push your delusions much farther than ever, since you have the support of peers who believe the same delusions. Ultimately, you will no longer recognize reality if it jumps up and slaps you in the face. It's kind of like changing your beliefs about the dangers of smoking because it's easier to do that, and more pleasing to the psyche, than to actually quit smoking. You're still going to die, but at least you have the "freedom" to believe that it wasn't the smoking that killed you but instead it was the "negatrons" beamed into your lungs by the Reptoids in the 5th dimension. Anyway, they weren't really killing you, they were liberating your Astral Body from this earthly plane!

I mean, is this supposed to be the pinnacle of secret societies, modern psychiatry, and governance?? Frankly, I'd rather stay wide awake, even if it means suffering. I'd rather watch it burn.

Do you believe all of this stuff going on at ATS and in the countless books and videos on the web is really good for anyone but the advertisers and the authors who are trying to sell books and tickets to conferences? I've lost hope in humanity, and I fear that this all has an appeal to people who are innocent and desperate in the face of a defacto military coup and an American oligarchy, and yet it is really nothing more than a way to squeeze a little more blood out of them.

So the big question is this. Do you believe it is good and proper to dangle carrots in the form of New Agey, science fictiony absurdities to profit from people who are desperate? Do you fall back to some kind of "law of the jungle" justification, or perhaps a slightly more sophisticate Indian Baba justification that it's spiritually sound to do it? In other words, are the authors and promoters of all kinds of pseudoscience and crap on ATS at all really interested in helping their fellow man, or are they just shrewdly wringing a buck from a gullible crowd?




posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:50 AM
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When the day comes, and all of our lives are at risk, I won't be loading a bullet in the chamber to make a buck off you and my fellow man. You are my fellow brothers and humans that I will be standing beside. You will not be money in my eyes, those days have come and gone when i quit the pharmaceutical business.

Yes, I believe there are people out there to make a buck, but I also believe that ATS is above that (and secrets). Friend, just because you have lost faith in humanity does not mean it has lost faith in you.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by LeTan]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:55 AM
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I truly believe there are people out there that have a genuine desire to help others by sharing their experiences and their New way or New Age way of finding themselves, finding a Deity to believe in, finding something *else* that fills a need in people lives.

I also believe there are a great many people who’s agenda is less than pure, the ones who lead those who’re looking for something *more* to slaughter like little lambs.

ATS seems to be a great place at pointing out both of the above - and a fare place to start looking for answers.

As to your question so I believe it’s *good and proper* to dangle a carrot in front of the desperate?
Sure.
As long as your basic agenda is to help and not a form of usury?

Why do you ask this?
What has happened to you - or what’s sparked this question?
I’m curious if you don't mind answering.

peace



[edit on 11-2-2009 by silo13]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by applebiter
I mean, is this supposed to be the pinnacle of secret societies, modern psychiatry, and governance?? Frankly, I'd rather stay wide awake, even if it means suffering. I'd rather watch it burn.

Do you believe all of this stuff going on at ATS and in the countless books and videos on the web is really good for anyone but the advertisers and the authors who are trying to sell books and tickets to conferences? I've lost hope in humanity, and I fear that this all has an appeal to people who are innocent and desperate in the face of a defacto military coup and an American oligarchy, and yet it is really nothing more than a way to squeeze a little more blood out of them.

So the big question is this. Do you believe it is good and proper to dangle carrots in the form of New Agey, science fictiony absurdities to profit from people who are desperate? Do you fall back to some kind of "law of the jungle" justification, or perhaps a slightly more sophisticate Indian Baba justification that it's spiritually sound to do it? In other words, are the authors and promoters of all kinds of pseudoscience and crap on ATS at all really interested in helping their fellow man, or are they just shrewdly wringing a buck from a gullible crowd?


I think you are brilliant to question. What a lovely outpouring of your heart. You are right to say that Jesus, aliens, etc will not be saving us. We got ourselves into this mess and since we no longer can be milked on the lies, you are being fed with the delusions. You have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

To not trust man or any kind of rescue will hopefully be a resounding theme we hear and see more of in the coming months.
Keep questioning... the answers are there... but no one can give them to you. You have to obtain them yourself. My thoughts are with you. Very refreshing to see more people just being honest with themselves and those around them.


[edit on 11-2-2009 by justamomma]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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reply to post by silo13
 


I'm irrationally compelled to tug at loose threads. With the advent of the Web, I can now completely saturate my mind with documentaries and testimonies put together over the last few decades. I'm not talking about Jordan Maxwell stuff. I'm talking about credible stuff with real players inside of every organization you can imagine. Tonight, I just watched an in-depth documentary on the death of those two high school kids in Mena for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Sure, the story is "out there" in that it's connected to high-level people, but it trickled down into a small town and the local law enforcement and medical examiner were clearly corrupted.

It isn't just this story. It's also first-hand knowledge of corruption among attorneys and law enforcement in Raleigh, NC. First-hand knowledge of US Army rangers deployed domestically in violation of posse comitatus - and directed to lie about it if caught! I could go on, but you get the picture.

I live very simply. I don't need that much, and I have never asked the government for a dime. I have proven that you can live free and well without being a human parasite, but I look around me and I see semi-conscious apes clawing and stepping on one another in order to seek prizes that are worthless. For some reason, I am both unwilling and unable to retreat into a microverse of fantasy in order to escape the basic ugliness of human nature. The causes of suffering are easy to see, but no one is looking. I just feel incredibly alone in this and I wonder why on earth we should have the capacity to imagine a better world and a better life but not the character to make it happen. It seems like some kind of cruel joke.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:19 AM
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Originally posted by applebiter
So the big question is this. Do you believe it is good and proper to dangle carrots in the form of New Agey, science fictiony absurdities to profit from people who are desperate?
, are the authors and promoters of all kinds of pseudoscience and crap on ATS at all really interested in helping their fellow man, or are they just shrewdly wringing a buck from a gullible crowd?


First off, I've never given a dime to ATS or any poster on it so nobody here has profited from me.

Second, It is a conspiracy discussion site. New agey, science fictiony absurdities will be flying around here. That's just a given.

Third the authors and promoters of anything anywhere are -to some degree- looking to make a buck. Those who "shrewdly" wring it from a gullible crowd do so because they are supplying to meet a demand.

For example-
I purchase books on a weekly and sometimes daily basis that have no truth in them whatsoever. They have all of the most imaginative lies and flights of fancy imaginable. I spend loads of money on them and they return no truth, usefulness or tangible benefits that anybody can note, but I still spend money on them. They are called novels. Does that make me a gullible victim?
Maybe, but I think not.

Give folks some credit. Most of us here know what we are thinking and doing. Some might be scurvy or dishonest but the dark side of things are very slim here. You find much more out there in the real world.
This site is an escape from the mundane world that has some fun and mystery to it. We get to interact with some great personalities and hear opinions from around the world. The news is always different and unusual so it's rarely boring. Some that news might actually be true.

If you want to find lies, skullduggery,dangling carrots and gullible crowds, go to Washington. Congress would be a great place to start.

So, am I lying to myself?



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by badgerprints
 


Escapism is fine and dandy up to a certain point. A point which I believe we have long since passed.

A guy pays top dollar for a pair of shoes that temporarily fulfills his desires to enhance his basic monkey need for approval. His unexamined motivations and dronelike consumerism are not without consequence. The shoes are made by a girl who learned to sew before she learned to read. The elite in that girl's country are paid well to keep her conditions miserable so that the first guy can afford to buy those shoes, though the girl who made them couldn't even afford to buy them herself.

If "freedom" means the freedom to lie to yourself so that you don't have to acknowledge and change the role you play in this world, and if it means the "freedom" to escape from the truth, then "freedom" is worthless. We are all complicit in making this world what it is, and we do it because we don't have the strength to understand who and what we are and why we do what we do.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by applebiter]

[edit on 11-2-2009 by applebiter]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 





In other words, are the authors and promoters of all kinds of pseudoscience and crap on ATS at all really interested in helping their fellow man, or are they just shrewdly wringing a buck from a gullible crowd?


There are as many answers to this as there are individuals who post here. Everyone has their own motivations, be they noble or malicious... for humor or for profit.

I cannot speak for everyone. I, as an individual, merely wish to encourage education and a healthy respect for education. I am not qualified to educate others, but as the saying goes "You don't have to be an artist to appreciate art". One doesn't need to be a scholar to appreciate knowledge or share that appreciation with others. To this end, I wish to promote rationality, logic, and a respect for the scientific method.




Frankly, I no longer have faith in human beings even possessing the capacity to tell the truth, anymore, but it would help me out if you would refrain from using this as an opportunity to role play or posture. If you can't be 100% blunt and honest, then I would appreciate it if you would just not respond to this question.


I don't think this is within the human capacity. Diogenes lantern burned till the day his own mortal flame was extinguished, and still shines brightly to this day.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 





For some reason, I am both unwilling and unable to retreat into a microverse of fantasy in order to escape the basic ugliness of human nature.


We are never more beautiful than when we are most ugly, because that is when we truly know what we are all made of.

You might enjoy this presentation by Chris Albani. He offers no solutions or grand truths... merely stories of our shared humanity to make of what you will.




posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:46 AM
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I'm not here to profit from anybody. I don't charge to post here, though quite frankly, I should.
(I'm joking, wind yer neck in
)

I've taken this spiritual "new age" journey for myself. I feel I was called into it somehow. I'm in it for ME, not anybody else. I do not want to sell any snake oil, nor any faux practices. I will try out as many faux (free) practices as I can. But that's to satisfy my own curiosity about a subject I'm very interested in. The mind and the spirit.

Like you, I have an unhealthy thought that most people are out to scam you and aren't in it for my best interests. But if it's me trying the spiritual stuff out on myself, then I'm not scamming anyone. And nobody is scamming me (cos i ain't paying for anything), more to the point. And I'm not going to lie to myself about what I'm experiencing. The things that I've tried out, some of them have been really good and actually opened me up to a new way of looking at myself and the world I live in.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:35 AM
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i truly think i understand what youre trying to say and where you're coming from and if im right then i do agree with you to a certain extant

i agree we all need to snap back into reality and actually face some of the very real problems we are facing

but we each alone only have so much power to do so much


but i dont fully agree that we should give up the ability to ponder things and question ideas

i think we lose our humanity when we lose our imagination and belief that the impossible can one day be possible

i think if we stop believing in EVERYTHING that we might talk and think about hear on ats, then we wont exactly be facing our realities per se, but instead possibly running from them even further

if we all just tried to stop and focus on one problem at a time

in todays world with so many problems, we may tackle one, but become blind to another, i think that may be what has caused us to be in the position that we are today

what is the answer?

i dont know

should we give up imagination and creative and critical thinking

no, for that would truly be the end of humanity as we know it, and as bad as it is, im not so sure its a good idea to give up such free thinking



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 05:07 AM
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This new age talk probably doesnt hurt anyone. Its just talk. Like everything else. What does talking about new world order really accomplish? Nothing at all. People just talk about a bunch of stuff. Whats the big deal? Who cares? What is reality? Politics? Politics make me sick.

Talking about new age material has you loose faith in mankind? How about the immense amount of BS that we dedicate our lives to each and everyday. I think this new age crap is a breath of fresh air. Aliens or other dimensions are fun to read about, but its not what the new age is really about. Some new age crap is BS, but the principle of it all is very positive.

To me spirituality is alot like poetry. You dont need to study poetry to right excellent poetry and some people who study poetry have no idea what poetry is really about. Poetry doesnt conform to the laws of the english language and new age beliefs sure as hell dont conform to physics.

Row your boat gently down the stream, life is but a dream.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 05:42 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 



Actually, i think, you missed the whole point: See, there are some people who take it very serious what they write. All that aliens, psychic, conspiracy and reincarnation "stuff". And do you know why? 'Cause it's real


And when you are really convinced about it, you start to think in some other directions: What if people knew about this? Do i have the knowledge to make things better? Can i test and expand my knowledge?

This is what this board is all about: Test and enhance and give some knowledge. Of course, if this is some kind of childrens play for you and you toy with the idea to make some money with this "stuff", then this board must really appear bit ridiculous

peace 'n love



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


I think that the reason this is happening is that we all grow up trying to impress our peers. We are all following the other guys actions, the majority are anyways.

Almost everyone has a curiosity to begin with, "why are we here?", "what is the point?", but very few dare to question it and the ones who do start along a path. Ultimately many stop and turn back for various reasons and the result is in front of our eyes. Follow the other guys actions. From the smallest thing to the biggest thing it is everywhere.
The few that make it to the goal, experience withdrawal from society, fear, pain, loss, depression and shock among other things (at first). When you get to the very pits of digging for the answer, the only way is upward and behold the answer when you come full circle right back to the man in the mirror.
How many people would go on a journey like that??
Instead people would more depend on someone who has said they have been there and done that for $5 than suffer that.
You cannot feel bad for others actions and if you do then you still have some digging left to do unless you would rather not and in that case follow the other guys actions.

Answers are nothing. It is the journey that counts to the answer.

Why do you think the truth hurts so much even on a basic level?

Human race

One man race

Cheer up, ive just told you the purpose of life.



[edit on 11-2-2009 by XXXN3O]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Lasheic
 


That was wonderful, Lasheic. Thank you very much.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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There are a lot of folks who will take advantage and - hurt others.
There are a lot of folks who will NOT take advantage and be of value to others.
It isn't always easy to tell who will and who won't -
YOUR only real job here on the planet is to be the latter.
Everything else is insignificant.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by applebiter
It seems like some kind of cruel joke.


As much as a cruel joke can be anything, that's what it is.
So who is the joker?
And,
What is the joke about?

You seem to be catching on to the clues. Carrot and stick. Delusion. Psychopathy.

If what is "out there" is seen to be sane and/or real, then psychopathy rules.
If sanity is seen to be "within" then what is without will be seen for what it is, madness.
Trust the sanity/reality within to recognize insanity/unreality without.
Then a transformation of experience can begin.

GoDspeeD,

Christ!




[edit on 12-2-2009 by Christ!]



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by applebiter
If "freedom" means the freedom to lie to yourself so that you don't have to acknowledge and change the role you play in this world, and if it means the "freedom" to escape from the truth, then "freedom" is worthless. We are all complicit in making this world what it is, and we do it because we don't have the strength to understand who and what we are and why we do what we do.


Eloquent. Keep it up.

Christ!



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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First please don't confuse jesus with Roamism. He told you were to find the answers, within. have you truly looked.
As to making money, I would love to have lots of it, as I am not prepared because I have none.LOL everyone is looking for a way to make money so they can purchase what they need to survive or to use to help others survive.
Certainly I have found no one, including Non profits that actually help anyone. And I doubt there is any ATS or Patriot individual or organization or business that would freely give any of us needed supplies.
So if they are making books that people want to read that gives them money to feed their families and pay their bills, how can we deny them that?
You may have a job and you are paid, maybe you flip burgers so you are contributing to someones weight problem. Or maybe you sell cigerettes, or work in a Government office. Each of us utilizes our talents in what ever way we can do aquire funds to live on.

If I offer something that is dumb and someone buys it because they agree with it then I have filled a need and I can feed my child.

Society as a whole enjoys lies and deception and violence, that is demonstrated by the books they read, the movies they watch and whom they glorify.

As an NDE I have seen the highest and on earth the lowest. We each have the power within us to choose either.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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I can tell you with honesty that I reject the notion of taking advantage of peoples' desperation through unfounded ideas such as alien coming to save us from our own stupidity.

I would never write a book or a publication for sale that had anything but fact or my own clearly described opinions. It is the reason why I stay away from UFO conventions and despise the likes of David Icke. While they get the imagination going, they prey on people who just want life to make a semblance of sense to them and that is more evil than almost any other form thereof.



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