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EMR...why not??

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posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 05:42 PM
I just finished a discussion in a thread I started about the correlation between EMR (Electronic Medical Record) and RFID implants.
What struck me as weird was the fact that most people were only talking about the chip and not the EMR....

I just can't understand why everybody is defending EMR
(electronic Medical Record) so much. Every poster had an opinion about Verichip but no body spoke a bad word about the EMR??

"You could just line people up and have them swipe a card through a machine"...this is a better alternative?

Card / chip's beside the point. The point is that the EMR is just an other nail in the coffin of freedom.

Here is my take on the whole damn thing:

This is story by Jonathan Swift from 1726 an it's called "Gulliver's travels"

On his first voyage, Gulliver is washed ashore after a shipwreck and awakes to find himself a prisoner of a race of people one-twelfth the size of normal human beings. They tied him to the ground with thousands of little ropes. Now one or two tiny little ropes could not have held Gulliver to the ground and in itself would seem innocent but thousands of ropes around his arms, legs, body and hair were strong enough to completely immobilize him and render him helpless....

what's the moral?

Imagine every tiny little rope being a digital solution such as EMR, ECR*, credit card-data, social security number, mobile phone account... the list goes on and on of measures taken which on it self would seem pretty innocent and even convenient.

As you know computers can select and sort huge amounts of information and present you with a certain result. It can combine pieces of information taken for various databases and present a certain outcome.

Just like the thousands of ropes around Gulliver, our own digital information from various systems can form a net from which escape is impossible.

It could very well happen that because a future system sees a correlation between certain pieces of information from your past they could decide you are unfit to raise children and take your children away from you or forbid you to have them.
No person will be assessing your personal situation and possible mitigating circumstances. Just a system which only sees 1/0......

Please, be very cautious when excepting new technologies which promises to make life easier/more efficient when in fact they are gripping you ever

ECR*: Electronic Child Record

Electonic Child Record

Coming soon to a government near you!!!


(ps: yes, i am reading Gulliver's travels to my 6 year old right now and his story got me thinking....

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 05:50 PM
reply to post by operation mindcrime

First I have heard of this, cheers for bringing it up.

In the UK we are facing ID cards which are are basically the same thing in my opinion.

Mothers Maiden Name
Bank Account
Medical Records
Travel details
Purchase records
Passport Number etc
All centralised into a card to prevent terrorism?

According to the BBC there are people queueing up to beat the rush. LMAO

Very worrying but in the end its cornflakes when compared to what is coming to the PTB.

PS I would not worry about this, just make sure you do what you feel is right (rejecting things etc) and bring your son up well. I do not know your moral stance but I can assure you if you act on good morals you will see it through. Just my 5 pence or cents.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by XXXN3O]

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 06:07 PM
EMR...why not?? In my opinion, EMR sounds just as good as owning those convenient plastic cards (ATM, debit, credit, driver's license, etc.) Sure, let's deny ourselves the convenience of more efficiency from new technology and go back to basics like barter system and natural healing. The latter are very good alternatives, by the way.

Once again, I just don't like the 'big brother' prying into my very person, DNA, blood, hair, stool, etc. samples, whatever. The world is too large to centralized every nook and cranny into one hive database. It's kinda creepy in the long run, really. But EMR is worth a try.

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:30 PM
While I see your point I still disagree.

Give your friendly gov an inch............

Time will be the judge.

Pity we have to repeat the same portion of it all over again.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by XXXN3O]

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:33 PM
reply to post by pikypiky

Actually, you're just giving more power to the insurance companies to easily reject you. They can simply look at your DNA records and determine that you are not qualified for coverage. Or pharmaceutical companies can get a hold of your records (believe me, it has happened) and spam you.

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:46 PM
reply to post by operation mindcrime

I'm not concerned about ERMs. All it really is, is a streamlining of a process which is already in place. All the dangers you elude to are already there in the current system, along with even more dangers present by medical staff which don't do their jobs properly. For example, my sister is allergic to penicillin - yet she has been sent to the ER three times in the last ten years because obtaining her full and complete records was apparently too much a hassle, or there wasn't enough time. ERM will work to absolve that issue.

Now... you want a real subject to rail against? Try looking up the dangers inherent in Gene Patenting and copyright laws... which surprisingly has gotten very little attention over the past few decades, despite the fact that it can be potentially used to violate the rights you have over YOUR OWN BODY.

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:41 PM
Well that's exactly my point....every individual measurment has nothing bad in it really but all those database systems containing your personal info combined are the real problem.

Indeed, medical companies, insurance companies, law systems, etc.. can/will all take action upon a certain profile a computer present about you. It's the combination off info that makes us vulnerable!!!

Soon they will know all about you, where you've been, who you've been seeing, what you are thinking, everything and all with our consent.

Keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer......

(ps: "enemy of the state" was on last night. Their is a nice example of how people with access to this info can very easely use it against you and take away the freedoms you think you have)


posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by operation mindcrime

For example, my sister is allergic to penicillin - yet she has been sent to the ER three times in the last ten years because obtaining her full and complete records was apparently too much a hassle, or there wasn't enough time. ERM will work to absolve that issue.

That is exactly the kind of reasoning they come up with to usher in yet an other new system, giving them more and more info to work with. Nobody will object to this kind of reasoning!! But what if the problem that made this sollution possible was created??
First create a problem, give people a sollution and every system they come up with will pass any privacy law, or what ever, with no problem. 'Cause people want their problems solved....

Now... you want a real subject to rail against? Try looking up the dangers inherent in Gene Patenting and copyright laws... which surprisingly has gotten very little attention over the past few decades, despite the fact that it can be potentially used to violate the rights you have over YOUR OWN BODY.

Thanks for the info and i will try to inform myself about this subject..

But i'm sure it has something to do with a problem which was/will be created in order for people to say :"well. we don't care giving up a little of our freedom in order for this system to do it's work, it will solve this huge problem we have".....


posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:57 PM
Sounds like a great idea. I'd love to have a card that has all my info on it. No more paperwork to fill out. I'm no celebrity, so I don't think any unscrupulous pencil-pusher is going to sneak a peek at my records.

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:00 PM
reply to post by operation mindcrime

Again... "They" can already do it now. Railing against EMRs isn't railing against surveillance, it's railing against database optimization. Optimization which can save a LOT of lives and save a LOT of money. It's going to be a necessity anyhow once we transition towards designer medicines, which is already underway. All EMR's are doing is building the infrastructure necessary to facilitate the next generation of health-care needs.

If you don't like it, then go join the Amish... because you're not going to stop the progress of technology.

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:07 PM
reply to post by operation mindcrime

That is exactly the kind of reasoning they come up with to usher in yet an other new system

Define "They". Seriously. I want organizations, and what their role is in this. I want the names of individuals. I want to know exactly WHO these people are and how "they" plan to benefit. I have a sneaking suspicion that you don't even know, specifically, who "they" are. "They", it seems to me, are nothing more than a blanket term for any phantasmal boogieman of the modern age which the author feels applicable to the moment and point.

No speculation. No assumptions. No "connect the dots" on your own and gut feeling BS. I want facts.

"well. we don't care giving up a little of our freedom in order for this system to do it's work, it will solve this huge problem we have"

Which freedom, specifically, is the EMR going to trample on? So say, hypothetically, an employer or insurance company can look at your records and deny you a job or coverage. What happened to THEIR freedom to pick and choose who it's customers or employees are? In actuality, I believe this has already been addressed - as it's currently a form of discrimination to use genetic testing as a means to deny employment. So why aren't you railing against this blatant violation of employer rights?

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Lasheic]

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Lasheic]

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:17 PM
reply to post by Lasheic

Well you obviously have a lot of convidence in automated systems. Suppose because somebody thinks you are being an insubordinate little sheep for visiting a website like ATS and they read how you think about certain things.
How easy would it be for them to change certain data so that the next time you might end up in the hospital you get some wrong treatment that could kill you??
"Sorry, there must has been a glitch in the data....things happen!! "

Good luck!!!

Come to think of it....aren't we all building fun little databases right now with all the things we type up here on ATS and other websites.......??
Aaaaargh....they are everywere...wonder if the Amish have a website for recruiting new members??


posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:27 PM
reply to post by operation mindcrime

Again... how is that not possible right now? If I didn't like you, I could find a million different ways to gain access to your passwords, your websites, your PC. I could obtain your bank account information, social security number, drivers license information. I could, with the right knowledge, obtain all of the information about you I need to basically replicate you and steal your identity. Whether I use that to financially ruin you, or alter your medical records, really doesn't matter.

It's possible RIGHT NOW. It has been possible for a VERY long time. Whether the information is stored in a database or a filing cabinet is of little consequence.

posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 11:32 PM
reply to post by Lasheic

Read up!!

We have been contributing to build a huge database of personal information by volunteering personal data when we make payment at shops, deposit money in a bank, or use public services (for driving licenses or tax payment). Even e-mail messages sent from computers and mobile phones remain saved on the network permanently unless every effort is made to "delete" them.

In this view, it was the emergence of the network which automated our data entry efforts. Furthermore, the Age of Ubiquitous Computing, which has been promoted currently, can be considered as striving to make computers deployed everywhere around us automatically collect, digitalise and save our personal information in Cyber space.

Privacy problems we have seen today are quite simply rooted in this characteristic of Cyber space. This is why we need to have a viewpoint to understand the different principles of the real world and Cyber space, and then try to resolve several problems caused by digital technologies.

Cyber space imposes challenges on "individuality"

One of the advantages of digital information is being able to search and collect necessary keywords from an enormous amount of text data. You can consider that the keywords retrieved this way are separated from their original context and then reconstructed anew. This "separation and reconstruction" is the paramount characteristic of digital information.

Let's take an example with books. We usually read a book sequentially by following the plot and the author's thoughts in the way the author intended. On the contrary with digital text, we can go beyond by clicking words among sentences and moving to related pages about the person, events and other relevant information (hyperlink feature), thus we can randomly read various texts according to our interests. (This undoubtedly enhances the flexibility of reading, however, some people may end up just being busy gathering knowledge and unable to absorb and contemplate the things. It depends on how to use the new tools, and more importantly, the quality of individuals.)

This relationship between words and text is exactly the same as the relationship between individuals and organisations. Individuals gained freedom from the regional and organisational shackles that have bound them in the real world and now are tested on their abilities in Cyber space.

For example, mobile phones enabled individuals to communicate with each other without any spatial constraints like boundaries of home, schools and companies. Yet at the same time, a sense of belonging to traditional communities became weaker and weaker. Of course mobile phones can be used to foster communication among families, but it is because you intend to do so. The most important thing is that people are inevitably challenged at an "individual" level. One might say that Cyber space exposes "individuals" to situations where they are challenged and tested.

Those "individuals" thrust out bare and alone are in danger of being taunted, manipulated or controlled by Cyber space. Even so, they also have a good chance of taking advantage of Cyber space to establish their own autonomous networks. This is again left to the discretion of individuals.



[edit on 10/2/2009 by operation mindcrime]

posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 12:37 AM
reply to post by operation mindcrime

And just what does that have to do with the implementation of EMRs? The site advocates education on computer technology and cyberspace as the virtual world becomes every bit as important to human interaction and interdependence as the real world.

This mysterious "they" cabal you like to refer to, the author argues will have less of a grasp and influence - as in a virtual world the power is further decentralized to the individual and small collective groups of individuals - rather than centered around governments or corporations.

One thing is clear. Society will now center around autonomous individuals, and not on large organizations and corporations as in the past. But because human beings cannot live in complete isolation, new organizations and networks will develop that will link and support these free, independent individuals. These new, non-hierarchical structures will be both global and local, and will in the main tend to be small-scaled. Existing institutions will not suddenly disappear from the face of the earth, but will gradually transform themselves to meet the new needs of the age. The relationships they maintain with individuals will be much looser and less-constraining than before. Thus we will see the emergence of a world where people move among many-layered networks and structures, all of which straddle both Cyberspace and Realspace. Just as water molecules are released into the air when transformed into steam, people will be freed from the shackles of existing organizations and drift freely into society. They will be able to break through the walls that enclose families, schools, corporations, even nations and ethnic groups, in order to mingle freely with all the peoples of the world. Yet at the same time, there is a powerlessness in this drifting freedom that can give rise to confusion, searing loneliness, even instability. It is for this reason that I wish to continue exploring all the possible paths that individuals, as well as societies, can build in this dawning new age.

The guy is basically talking about the formation of a whole new society which is going to emerge from cyberspace which will challenge our conventional views of society and render lessons applied to "real-world" societies and governments utterly meaningless.

posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 10:51 AM
I mearly posted this article to show how all these implementations take away our individuality. Now this doesn't have to mean our freedom but the way i see it, i like being an individual and be treaded as such!!!!

When a computer makes connections between data there is no objective source judging the outcome....with computers the outcome is the outcome no matter what the circumstances....


Sorry for all the typos but i'm in a hurry, no spelling check this time!!!

posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 01:47 PM
Here's an other interesting database you'de wanna be on!!!!

House Approves Whitelist of People Who Aren't Terrorists

Better hurry and get on that list!!!


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