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ok ok since all the interest here is the real deal with Jews and their success

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posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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Jewish people in my opinion are as a whole by proportion very intelligent(obviously there are also very many, very stupid, george bush-esque retarded jews to). Now for the intelligent ones whether you want to attribute that to Genetics, culture, taysachs, chosen ones or some other factor that is immaterial.

But the end result is that there are more Jewish Geniuses than any other race as a proportion.

But why is it that we see so many Jew's in decision making positions and in the Mass Media Arts who are complete imbeciles and un-talented, simple answer is - unabashed extreme Nepotism.

So for every genius like Albert Einstein or Larry David, or Sheldon Adelson or howerd stern or Robert Oppenheimer or Henry Kravis or Michael Bloomberg or Sergey Brin we have many more worthless pieces of garbage like, Brett Ratner or Ben Bernake or Barbara Boxer, Barney Frank, or Roman Abramovich or Mikhail Khodorkovsky.

You see it would seem that there are a significant higher number of highly intelligent or creative Jews as a proportion of their people than you would find in most other sectors/races/religions/cultures. But at the same time there are so many more Jews who got into Harvard or got funding for their hedge fund or more evidently got their pilot made or were chosen over Goy directors to make that movie because of the heavy handed Jewish nepotism that prevails.

This is strongly evident in the Mass Media Arts, among Russian businessmen, in hedge fund circles.

So here is the real deal, Jews = higher number as proportion of their people who could be considered geniuses for their accomplishments. But also much more vast number of Jews who are "successful" because of the Nepotism that goes on.

Note I specifically put more naturally accomplished Jews than those who got to were they are because of nepotism, because well to be honest I love Jews. I love their culture I love their food I love their women, I love the humor I love it all.

Just wanted to help people understand better what the real deal is with SOME Jews.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Desolate Cancer]




posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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I find that to be a statement full of suppositions.

You SUPPOSE Jewish people are more intelligent.

Well... like I've been saying and everyone has been ignoring... Judaism is an ideology... not a race. You can call it a race if you want it to, but then.... you're just complicating a singular thing, which is humanity. Although I am probably regarded as anti-semite for that observation.

Ideologies have nothing to do with how intelligent a person is naturally able to be. There are retarded assed Jews.... like the juvenile asses in videos of Israelis # talking everyone and throwing rocks at American cameramen..... and there are genius Jews, like the great Einsten. Same goes for every other variation in melatonin and bone structure.

I think chimpanzees are smarter than all of us. They just chill in the trees and don't listen to government propaganda.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by dunwichwitch]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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I think what happens is that the Jewish people have historically cornered economic activities and processes for a very long time, possibly since before they were even recognisable as a distinct people. Thus the sort of left brain analytical bias that passes for intelligence in this modern world is a cultural precondition, for the most part. Possibly one or two genetic traits might help, but mostly it's circumstance.

Besides, since they, or rather the Zionists that set them up as a chosen people (not always to their own best interest, but that's another thread), they do kinda control the mechanisms that are doing the evaluations, which results in confirmation bias and clear self serving.

Personally I think they are no more intelligent than any other people I have observed, although cultures, likes and priorities are very different. At the end of the day we are all one species, and it's more that unites us than what seperates us.

Anti-semitism and it's couterpart jewish racist superiority have no part to play in the debate. Everyone needs to get off the high horses.

The problem is elitism, and that is not race specific, it's a personal inclination, although in some cases there might be hereditary predisposition or cultural fostering.

If we could stop charectarizing peoples by labels a lot of good would get done in this world, as it's one case where language hurts us.

Cheers.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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I would point out that "recognized genius" and ALL geniuses (as defined by IQ) are not the same thing.

To be a recognized genius, you most likely would have to have attended college. You can have a high IQ and be uneducated.

The means to attend college are money, time, and ability. Not ability alone. There are those in the world who do not attend college, or ever make their mark in a world overly preoccupied with "accreditation" who have genius level IQs.

Some are born very poor, some must work from a young age to support their family, some have no interest in the things our society finds valuable enough to reward. (Physics, Science, Chemistry, etc.) Some prefer "useless" endeavors like philosophy, and music, or art.

iml.jou.ufl.edu...


The graphic of average IQ by profession does not translate well to text, so please click the link.

When one says that Jewish people produce more geniuses, what you are really saying is that more Jewish people are recognized as valuable for their genius in modern times. No one is measuring the "unpopular" forms of genius that exist but are not cherished in our culture. And, no one is taking the time to suss out those geniuses who through no fault of their own will never have a piece of paper from a university, and so will never be listened to at all. It could just as easily be that more Jewish people have the means to go to college.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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Success?! what are you talking about?! First, I would not call the Jewish history a documentary on success. Rather, Survival and methods of sustaining it.

Nepotism was once called "family values". It's how the world used to work before Western Society destroyed the extended family in response to industrialization which is slowly leading to the destruction of the "nuclear" family unit. So, stab away, poke fun, be a skeptic, or adopt some of their practices and be "successful".

To say that one race is superior mentally, is absolute pig swill. That is not something to say without some supporting documentation. It's almost exactly what the nazi's tried shove down the collective throat of the world. However, common sense goes a long way in protecting you and yours. We are SUPPOSED to protect and provide for our kin. It's a biological imperative. In the case of the Jewish (racially) people, this happens to be all of them. They have the option of seeing themselves as one big extended family. Which genetically is true of most nations and races. Supposedly, most Americans are related to the same 15 or so male patriarchs.

Oh by the way, anyone notice Julio was about to have a heart attack? Hero worship really makes me just plain tired. I wanted to choke him.

news.google.com.../0-0&fp=49911eb0070dbe74&ei=vOGRSfLTB4uQmAfLxNSyCg&url=http%3A//www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/10/julio-oseg ueda-florida-co_n_165673.html&cid=0&sig2=bLWFo59-3-HATwxPpmpY-A&usg=AFQjCNFH6YVK4FtxPf1ebbpTFMoBWWHddg



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by phlack
 


"To say that one race is superior mentally, is absolute pig swill. That is not something to say without some supporting documentation."

-----------------------

Seems like you've never heard of "Eugenics" (www.eugenics.net). Its a pretty touch ideology that has been endorsed by "Francis Crick (DNA)" as well as a host of others included in the intellectual elite.

Check it out.. WIKI and GOOGLE are your friend.

Peace



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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Some of us have heard of "Eugenics" and have discounted it as pig swill. And no matter how many times we google it, we may still think it is pig swill.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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No we are not all created equal, that is a very naive way of looking at things. We may and should all have the same inalienable rights but we are as different in as many ways as we are numerous.

THe fact is that some people are smarter than others, some are stronger, some more athletic, some healthier, some whiter, some blonder, some taller etc etc...

Why is it so bad to believe that a certain type of people produce more geniouses as a PROPORTION to their number than others?

I didnt mean the thread to exclusively focus on this aspect or its why. But rather to take into consideration of the apparent fact that there is a very real nepotism involved that produces the same morons in banking VP positions that helped ruin the economy and same cowards who produce the massive number of pathetic sequel and remake movies we see.

My hypothesis is that ---- If the world was purely based on talent and work ethic you would still see the same number of Jews at the very top ( disproportionately higher to their numbers compared to other peoples), but you would see far fewer in the second and third tiers, instead they would farther down on the chain, replaced by the more talented and better work ethic "goys".

second and third tiers being right below the top.



[edit on 10-2-2009 by Desolate Cancer]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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I don't buy that.

I don't see proof of their "genius". Take any reasonably intelligent child from any race and drill them like the jewish culture drills it's kids and anyone of them will have higher than average scores on IQ tests when they reach adulthood. They will also neurotic and racist if they follow the same isolationist culture as *some* jewish people have. It's circumstance.

And it's just penny counting skills, they have intelligence but do they have wisdom? A world economic system that is eating itself suggests that, if the jewish people are that relevant in it as some people insinuate, that wisdom might be lacking.

So let's not be uplifting the jewish people above the rest of us just yet, I don't think they, or any other people including my own, deserve it.

We are all humans, we all have the same potential, statistically. Individual performance will of course vary, but the bell curve across the races imo is identical. The only exception could be in hereditary genetics with a few more localised bloodlines, as is rumoured with askhenazi (sp?) jews, but here they pay dearly for their added intelligence with a host of quite severe health problems across the family. And still the wisdom is debateable.


I've scored as high as 140's in IQ tests, I'm portuguese from poor families. I've met a lot of people as smart as me or more, a lot of them just doing mundane stuff like tending bars. I've met a lot of dumber people pretty high up the social ladder, with degrees. The whole idea that we can even measure individual worth with a batch of empyrical tests, imo, is somewhat flawed and dosen't correspond to my own personal experiences.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Desolate Cancer
*snip*


Wow, this could be one of the most disgusting posts I have ever read on this forum. First is the fact that you can't even spell the people you hate on, then you take some bad people doing bad things and assign it to an entire sect of a religion, then you move on to claim a group settling land is genocidal and deserve trials on par with a group that murdered millions in cold blood.

 

Mod Edit: Removed T and C violating post from quoted material.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by GAOTU789]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:04 PM
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As I pointed out in the other thread, the bad people being mentioned and "successful" are not actually Jews. They only call themselves Jews. They have also in many ways used actual Jews as a sacrifice in order to get what they want. Meaning, by Jews being treated badly, they use it as a way of gaining sympathy and then call anyone who dismisses them as anti-semite.

Revelation 2:9 (King James Version)

9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Revelation 3:9 (King James Version)

9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


So can we please stop grouping them up into 1 big group and using the actions of a few to persecute all?

This also applies to Christians as well. Those who call themselves Christians but aren't. These all belong to the Church of Satan, not what they say they are.

By their fruits can you tell the difference.


[edit on 10-2-2009 by badmedia]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:17 PM
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Jews have historically been limited as to what professions they were allowed to practice, so many became lawyers, doctors, money-lenders, and entertainers- all of which were not considered to be noble professions at the time. Turns out they had the last laugh.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by whodunit

Wow, this could be one of the most disgusting posts I have ever read on this forum. First is the fact that you can't even spell the people you hate on, then you take some bad people doing bad things and assign it to an entire sect of a religion, then you move on to claim a group settling land is genocidal and deserve trials on par with a group that murdered millions in cold blood.


Say what you will but as someone who grew up in nyc frequented Brooklyn (massive Hasidic neighborhoods), lived in Los Angeles and now lives again in NYC, most of my friends and 90% of my best friends are jews. I like to surround myself with jews since it is who you surround yourself with that has one of the biggest impacts on who you are.

Anyway....

I have had many encounters with "Hasidics" from the casual on the street to business dealings, and the only one out of the couple hundred at least (not an exaggeration) who has not had the mentality of being superior or of just being shiesty in their dealings was an older man who was a teacher.

So obviously there are many more like him who are great, open minded and decent but from my significant number of interactions I can sleep at night and look any jewish or non-jewish friend in the eyes telling them my honest feelings about Hasidics. Which most of them agree with me on, they are the ones who tell me that they are not really jewish (hasidics).

I apologize if I see Hasidics or settlers as being equivalent to other fanaticals like Muslim Al Queda Fanatics or end time abortion clinic bombing Christians.

Perhaps I did use some harsh language in that post and for that I do apologize, if I offended anyone. But a fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic.





[edit on 10-2-2009 by Desolate Cancer]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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Your talking about the Lubovitch sect.

There is a reason they think there superior look up their belief system, they are not mainstream Jewdiasm AT ALL but they do like to act like the leaders of Orthodox Jewery.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by Desolate Cancer

Why is it so bad to believe that a certain type of people produce more geniouses as a PROPORTION to their number than others?


It wouldnt be "so bad to believe that" if your methodology FOR coming to that conclusion even approached viable. However, in terms of evidence you offer us nothing but opinion. Based on the most piss poor kind of reasoning. (Hardly a mark of genius in itself.)

Consider, using your method, it isnt "Jewish people" who are more likely to be geniuses, but "Jewish men." If we only choose historical or recently recognized modern "geniuses" as an accurate gauge of proportion in a population, you are going to find very few women. Why? Well, surely it can have nothing to do with the fact that historically women have been denied both education and the right to work in certain fields, save some lucky few. And even those lucky few who did manage to become educated often gave up their work upon marriage due to the necessities of caring for children and husband. Such as Einsteins own first wife. Who scored the same as him on exams for physics, but historically contributed nothing in terms of published work.

Or, like Lisa Meitner who initially had her work credited to a male.

www.neatorama.com...


Hahn received the Nobel Prize in 1944. (Meitner never did.) For years, Hahn was listed at the inventor, with Lise Meitner occasionally mentioned as his assistant.


Consider also that you are only naming more modern geniuses. Can you really overlook the fact of ancient Greece? Look at all the math, and engineering, and atomic theories, and studies of human nature (Plato) that came from there? What precisely was Israel doing that was comparable at the time? They have recently discovered in a shipwreck a complex clockwork calculator that could give you the positions of the known planets and moon quite precisely on any date you chose.

www.newscientist.com...


It turns out that it was a hand-wound clockwork device used to calculate the motions of the sun, moon and planets as seen from Earth, as well as to predict solar and lunar eclipses (see "How it worked").


Over 2000 years ago, the Greeks were building computers.

Or how about the Egyptian and Mayan and Aztec engineering marvels?

Consider that in modern times, in academics, ideas are often stolen, and work done by subordinates is not always credited to the subordinate but often the credit is given to the person running the project. It isnt always easy to suss out the precise originator of an idea. Who is to say that these modern geniuses arent being credited with more than their fair share of the discovery in some cases? Politics plays an enormous role in modern academia.

It is far more likely that "recognized genius" has more to do with the ability to publish, (and write at all) the means (time and money) to pursue ones ideas, and a culture that will allow you to forward your ideas and recognize you for them. It is highly unlikely that a genius born in a jungle in south America to a stone age (technologically) tribe will ever win a Nobel prize, or even create anything at all. That does not mean that that same person born instead to a well off family in the industrialized world that could afford to educate them, and allow them the luxury of pursuing their interests rather than sustenance would not have produced something recognized as genius.

And lets not forget the gauge of IQ itself. The tests. I have been in gifted classes since I was a young child. So I have been tested for IQ more times than I care to recall. And none of my scores are the same. They differ a few points here, a few there, on American tests, and then they rocket up quite impressively on European tests. Why? Because many of the current tests in America test you on things that have nothing to do with IQ. One question that stands out for me is "Where did Napoleon die?" Now, I know the answer. However, at the time I took the test, I didnt. I was raised in Hawaii and our curriculum focused more on the Hawaiian monarchy and its history than that of Europe. If they had asked me how Kamehameha united the Hawaiian islands into one kingdom, I could have easily told them that. But the test writer assumed the test takers would have a particular body of cultural knowledge. The European tests, presumably because of language differences there, focus more on tracking variables in geometric progression and number sequences. Less on cultural trivia.

Bottom line, there is a lot that goes into being recognized as a genius. Simply counting modern recognized geniuses and doing a percentage is not going to tell you much of anything about the true occurrence of genius level IQ in a given population. It tells you more about the culture you live in than anything.



[edit on 11-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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They are no "special people"...

Their parents push them hard when the move to the U.S, so they take really high paying jobs and lawyers and doctors.

Simple as that.

Jews in Israel have poverty and yadda as we all do.
It's the ones aboard we tend to "mock"



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Zepherian

I've scored as high as 140's in IQ tests, I'm portuguese from poor families. I've met a lot of people as smart as me or more, a lot of them just doing mundane stuff like tending bars. I've met a lot of dumber people pretty high up the social ladder, with degrees. The whole idea that we can even measure individual worth with a batch of empyrical tests, imo, is somewhat flawed and dosen't correspond to my own personal experiences.


I agree. I met smarter, albeit un-formally educated people, in construction than I met in most of my college classes. Going to college might educate you, give you bits of knowledge to work with, but it doesnt change your own innate ability to think creatively or reason well. The most intelligent people I met were in my philosophy classes. How many philosophy majors do you think will win a Nobel prize? Few. Most of them will end up taking jobs that allow them to pursue their personal philosophies and will never be noted by the world at all.

Intelligence does not equal ambition as we define it today. The pursuit of and love of money and acclaim. Many intelligent people would rather be poor and unrecognized than rich and famous if they have to compromise their passions and beliefs to get rich and famous.

I know several people who have genius level IQs who work really dumbed down jobs like retail sales because the are musicians, and they cannot make their music pay. Because "genius in music" does not translate to "making money in music." Brittany Spears is a popular entertainer, but is she a musical genius? Who can argue that she is? And these same people's genius is not limited to music, but music is their love. Their passion. I know writers who will never be published who are equally genius because formula novels sell best and are safe bets for publishing houses, and getting published has a huge "luck" component.

Success in our world means producing what people want. Genius pursues truth, (to the best of its ability) regardless what people want. Recognized genius is when what people want and the truth just so happen to intersect.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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Wow, I’m on ATS and have found a thread about J**s that the politically concerned anti-Zionist brigade hasn't invaded yet.

I one can’t attribute the relative achievements and financial success of Jews to a single factor. The stress on education and learning is one, the cumulative persecution resulting in a tragic thinning of the herds (those who couldn't hide fast enough or talk their way out), some genetic advantages in brain chemistry. an outsider looking in perspective on culture, and on and on.

Jews succeeded in hostile societies because of their 'outsider' qualities and situations. They could mor readily see the rules of the game, whether it was finance, an education discipline, retail businesses - and apply non-linear thinking to an established approach.

The notion that Jews have some kind of nepotistic clannishness that accounts for them moving their associates up the ranks is not fully correct. Scotsmen show preferences to working with Scotsmen, Bantus give opportunities to other Bantus, etc. It goes for everyone.

When I went to University in Canada the argument was to limit the number of Jewish students allowed into medical schools. The rationalization was they would not be welcome in many communities as the country was 95% Christian, and 1% Jews.
Still, Jews got the best marks and were the best candidates applying.

In a politically correct society where the very notion of any type of 'superiority' causes trauma, one has to skirt around a lot of issues.

We sort of give sideglances to the cliched standbys - black basketball players, blonde country western singers, Muslim terrorist organization leaders, oriental pianists, French chefs (still?).

But talking about Jews doing well in their chosen fields and often being brilliant writers, businessmen, artists, organizers - elicits a sort of terror.

Someone might actually come out and say they're better at a lot of things because, as a group, they're smarter.

So the more accepteable default explanations have become along the lines of saying things like they control the banks, buy influence, exclude other more deserving , and so on.


Mike F



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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Well, if you want to disregard all that I have said about the validity of the tests themselves, the effects of culture, sexism, having opportunity to pursue education and ideas, personal ambitions, etc., and just crunch the raw numbers, you would still be incorrect in assuming Jews to be the smartest.

East Asians have the highest average IQ using tests as a gauge. And, it is highly unlikely that this data was manipulated just to spite the Jews.

en.wikipedia.org...


The accuracy of the cross cultural IQ scores is highly controversial, but many scholars use the results as an estimate of worldwide IQ scores.[50][51][52][53] Lynn's meta-analysis lists East Asians (105), Europeans (99), Inuit (91), Southeast Asians and Amerindians (87 each), Pacific Islanders (85), Middle Easterners (including South Asians and North Africans) (84), sub-Saharan Africans (67), and Australian Aborigines (62).[5




Of course it was this very data that got Crick in trouble. When he quoted from it at some conference or interview or something.

en.wikipedia.org...


Some Psychometric studies have found that Ashkenazi Jews have the highest mean score of any ethnic group on standardized tests of general intelligence[citation needed], with estimates ranging from 7 to 12 points above the mean IQ of the general European population at 100, which ranges from 107 for Germany to 90 for Croatia according to Richard Lynn's estimates for 2006.[3] These studies (see references) also indicate that this advantage is primarily in verbal and mathematical performance; spatial and visual-perceptual performance is average. These studies and their findings have been characterized by psychologists Susan Barnett and Wendy Williams as relying on existing studies "of questionable validity" in an article in an APA review article[8]

However, some statistic data on Israel[citation needed], where roughly 50 percent of its Jewish population is composed of Ashkenazi immigrants from Europe or their descendants[citation needed], shows that Israel achieves lower average IQ scores than the countries of Europe or East Asia (Israel 94, England 100, Hong Kong 107).
See also IQ and the Wealth of Nations. Israel, however, is a multiethnic society, with not only Jews of diverse backgrounds, but also a sizable (20 percent) non-Jewish population.


I dont understand, really, how classifying groups is that helpful. Within each group lies the potential for genius. What is so difficult about looking at people individually rather than choosing to make racist statements against (members of x are dumber than members of y) or EQUALLY racist statements for (members of y are smarter than members of x).

Racism is a two way street. When you make a case for your own race being special and better, you are in fact doing exactly the same thing as a person who makes a case that another persons race is worse. Its just a less honest or blatant way of making that discriminatory case.




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