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Bad economy forcing immigrants to reconsider U.S.

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posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:53 PM
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I'm guessing unless you actually live near the Mexican border - - you are unaware of the illegal Chinese crossing into America. Just thought I'd add it to the mix. A whole lot of stuff is going on.

Has this made major media news? Just curious if anyone has ever seen this reported on their news station.

The heading of this thread just says Immigrants - not illegal. I wonder what the estimate is of legal immigrants returning to their own countries.
----------------------------


Border Patrol arrests migrants from China, Mexico

Nov. 28, 2008 11:51 AM
Associated Press

TUCSON - The U.S. Border Patrol says agents have arrested 14 illegal immigrants from China near the southern Arizona town of Sasabe since Monday.

Spokesman Mike Scioli says agents patrolling on Monday spotted what appeared to be a beer company van. The van looked unusual and out of place so they pulled it over.

Inside were a driver and 13 illegal immigrants, eight from China and five from Mexico.


www.azcentral.com...

Mod Note: Added external source tag to news article.

[edit on 2/11/2009 by maria_stardust]




posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I know my American history better than most Americans, I require no lectures, and could care less of what the rest of the world thinks about our immigration policy, it needs to be enforced. Because these people are getting ahead of the line and I've been waiting to become a citizen by legal means for years, pouring over paperwork, paying money, working my ass off, and I'll be damned if they get ahead of me!


[edit on 11-2-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 11-2-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 11-2-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


The only thing I can think of to respond to that with being very concise is:





posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I am proud of my Brother and nothing you say will change that. Believe me it has been very difficult for me to reconcile my feelings on the war with the fact that my brother is fighting it. I know it's illegal, And I believe Bush is a miserable murderer. But I cannot begrudge my brother for any of this, despite what goes on in Washington, my brother is no criminal, war or otherwise. And continues to conduct himself in an ethical manner. And believe me, if he were asked to do something illegal while there, he would refuse.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Cio88
 


Basically, i say the same thing. Illegal immigrants have the option of going home, but where do we go? Not to mention the fact that them leaving opens up job opportunities here. Maybe even a pay bump or two, heh i doubt it.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I am proud of my Brother and nothing you say will change that. Believe me it has been very difficult for me to reconcile my feelings on the war with the fact that my brother is fighting it.


My position is - if the US Military accepts a person to fight for this country - - they should be granted instant automatic citizenship.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


So you are saying that some mobsters are good people?
Because despite working for a mass murderer doesn't necessarily make you a bad person?, that mass murderer's employees, who's empire building subsidy is destroying the country that you love so much, could be a good person at heart?

I agree with you, it's very possible.

Ever watch the matrix? Remember when Morpheus goes into the matrix for the first time with Neo, and he says even though these people are good people, they are still part of the problem and therefore must be considered as enemies?

I understand though, but know that it's your heart and not your brain speaking.

Thanks, didn't want to derail the thread
but I just read too many derogatory posts in this thread
so I thought I would educate.... or rather remind!



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


That usually happens AFTER they die. Most immigrants serving in Iraq have been granted their citizenship posthumously. Which is a crying shame...But there is always room for change in America. I will be glad to see him come home in a couple of weeks, And then he ships off again.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 



You don't know him, and you could not possibly understand my perspective as it is obvious you have no deeply personal connection to this war. I have been EXTREMELY vocal against this war, and against American imperialism. To pass judgement on my brother is not educating it's insulting. And I would kindly ask you to refrain from such personal swipes.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


alrite, I apologize
but don't consider it personal when, as you said i don't know your brother, his individualism is irrelevant to any possible solution to the problem.

I am commenting on every soldier in Iraq not him specifically

okay, carry on
bye



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Annee
 


That usually happens AFTER they die. Most immigrants serving in Iraq have been granted their citizenship posthumously. Which is a crying shame...But there is always room for change in America. I will be glad to see him come home in a couple of weeks, And then he ships off again.


Yes - I know. I live in a military town. And I know many in the military support and defend the American ideals - - but don't necessarily support this illegal non-declared war.

And many young men and women join the military as their best hope of improving themselves and opportunities.

I know there has been a push to give citizenship to immigrants who complete their military service. As it is now - it only gives them the right to apply.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Revealation
 


Funny how a discussion gets stale mate when both side refuse to bend toward the other. I lived the life of both.

its not about illegal aliens ..... you are hurt and desperate because your losing your livelihood, sovereign rights , rights period, guess what were talking about the same thing.

Illegals have NO RIGHTS never did
Illegals ARE NOT taking social services never have, No rights to.
Illegals are not taking truck loads of money out of the country. what he sends it 100 bucks to another country, big deal, try sending millions to your bank in other countries to hide it(see the difference - steal big get away)

but guess what, They have however been paying into a system TAXES / Economy for years, with no rights to receive any benefits and don't receive any ...

the ones stealing your jobs unless your a migrant worker or work at fast food are NOT ILLEGALS ..... Construction my friend has always hinged on real estate fluctuation and I dare say you will not find a ton of illegals there either, my brother in-law has been in construction for 30 years, I know its diluted with illegals, and I am also aware that people strike out at the perceived problem. but there aren't truck loads of brick layers or tradesman there either.

(history: burn the witches or any number of examples of false blame, its an excellent deception tactic, and still works today for just about EVERYTHING, ever get your brother in trouble for something you did??)

aside from this not changing a single thing in the grand scheme of things I'll say this. IF IMMIGRATION was the problem they would have fixed it 30 years ago!

Never has been and never will be a problem, farming out all the middle class jobs has created a PANCAKE affect, the middle class is now taking lower positions and the lower positions are taking whats left. there is NO MORE middle class. and we are still blaming the Illegals. those have been farmed out a long time ago, even when the construction BOOM was in a full out gallop, no one cared or noticed untill the jobs were all farmed out and the money was all gone, plain old corruption, and I must say I am so tired of the old excuse its illegal, so is speeding, so is a ton of other crimes including smoking pot, yet half+ the population commits crimes on a daily basis, with the top 1% raping our futures at break neck speed.

We all are in some serious DODO here folks and the puppet masters still have us fighting each other for crumbs, I read people complaining about taxes, LOL ever so often the illegals get blamed for that too, what next Global warming ????

this is a matter of economics, no work to go around, the money is all gone (must been the illegals sending the Billion dollars over to there country) and the finger pointing has begone.

from The Depression spread rapidly around the world because the responses made by governments were flawed. When faced with falling export earnings they overreacted and severely increased tariffs on imports as well as closed the borders and deported as many as they could back then as well. so what happened to make it all better, they had a War, started to spend the money again, and guess what the illegals didn't matter anymore.

Immigration ... never mattered anyway. but it does give you someone to blame.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 


Go figure this old illegal made 3 more American soldiers to fight for the country that kicked there father out of it.

Yeh I see the reason in that.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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By the by, in case anyone cared .....

Illegals have been here for what ohhhhhh a long time.

look at this little morsel.

this recent depression / Recession isn't / can't be laid at the feet of the terrible illegals all day.

source for the Original

Blue was 1990 Recession
Red was 2001 Recession
Green is for the current as yet to be determined I think.





posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:24 PM
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It is a contradiction.

"I can't support myself on the wages of slave labor"

"They send all their money home"



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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I have to say that I am on the side of LEGAL immigration and against illegal immigration. And you can't play the race card with with me. I have seen legal citizens who were turned down for work even though they were qualified and the next day here comes more hispanics that were illegal. How do I know? The illegal immigrants I used to work with told me. They were friends.

Some of the illegals who are supposed to be so poor, all had cell phones, nice mini vans, cable television etc. They also worked the system and got welfare for their kids, subsidized housing, free medical and yet they had boyfriends who made damned good money under the table. So here you have couples with decent jobs and in no way should be getting benefits like that, while citizens that have been waiting for years on a list to get subsidizing housing (Who actually need it) cannot because there are too many illegals already living there.

Now here's my husband and I who are paying for Cobra medical coverage and dental that totals close to a thousand dollars per month and neither one of us can find employment. We cannot get on welfare because we are forced to use our 401k retirement funds first. Is this fair? Is this right? No!

All my ancestors came here legally, learned the language and were proud to be citizens. My parents were born and raised here.

We have gangs and child molesters coming into this country, we have people who raise the flag of their country before the American flag, who only work here to save money to send home. that insult and disrespect our laws thinking they are above the law and better than us. It is a shame and disgrace to the nicer people of those countries who come here legally.

As for illegals who are only taking jobs that Americans don't want, that is false!!!! Illegals are in the school system getting funds to help them and preparing for good paying jobs. There are illegals in all phases of the employment field. The old excuse is infuruating. We are so tired of having to explain ourselves and the facts over and over and over again.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by svpwizard
 


Well, as an immigrant I can agree that illegal immigration is NOT the cause of the economic problems we are having right now. They do, however, contribute to huge violent crime rates in border states and sometimes beyond, between drug smuggling and gangs the illegal immigrant population have that market cornered. And THAT is true, and not reactionary. I too will not accept that our current economic struggles are the result of anything other than our own irresponsibility, and lack of judgement when it came to the voting booth. But illegal immigration is a big problem for people such as myself who are being asked to allow them to cut in front of the line with ridiculous amnesty proposals peddled by both democrats and republicans. Because cheap, exploitable labor is attractive to them both. All the more reason to enforce our standing laws. We don't need to create new ones, just enforce the ones we have.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by projectvxn]



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by svpwizard
 

Because cheap, exploitable labor is attractive to them both. All the more reason to enforce our standing laws. We don't need to create new ones, just enforce the ones we have.
[edit on 11-2-2009 by projectvxn]


I liked your post and these ideas in particular. I would add that cheap, exploitable labor is highly attractive to many corporations, corporations that gave money to both parties to hedge their bets, but primarily to the traditional party of what used to be called "big business", the GOP. (eg. Tom Delay, who helped give the false "Made In America" impression with his support of the Mariana sweat shops).
Democrats may make use of illegal immigrants as an issue in their own way, but it was government pandering to corporations that refused to halt it.

Young people need to study the midwest meat packing industry, whose union-busting techniques about 20 years ago had a part in the general effort to lower wages for American workers in order to keep corporate profit.

Yes, we have laws on the books and dog & pony shows of "enforcing" them that make the news, but these laws are ignored. I went to school with immigrants (research Guatemala in the 50's and Cuba in the 60s), and have fellow workers whose families in Mexico went through the intense legal process to come here. All these people would suffer due to corporate exploitation of illegal labor.

I can remember (pre early 1980's) when unscrupulous orange growers etal would call in "la Migra" before payday to round up their illegal labor in order to not pay them. After that time, it seems that business in areas besides agriculture was allowed to grow bolder, with virtually no enforcement of not only labor laws but worker health and safety laws (a worker complain? not if they risked deportation.)
Voters were distracted by cultural political wedge issues of abortion, gays, and other fundamentalist dogma to not see what was taking place.

No, illegal labor was not the ruin of this economy, it was corporate policy and the politicians these corp's corrupted. We ALL suffer now.



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