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Advanced Military Medicine?

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posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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I had a thought today regarding how advanced the military is compared to civilian technology.
I think it's universally agreed that any new technologies they have, the average citizen won't see for many years and I wondered if the same applies to the medical side of the military. I don't think it's a huge leap to assume that the military has high tech medical technology.

An example would be this:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Regrowing a fingertip cut off in an accident sounds like something from a futuristic movie. But with innovative technology developed by the U.S. Army, such regrowth is possible today.


Sounds interesting and this is where I thought of ATS and the vast amount of military personnel who are members.


Now, I guess there is a possibility that these personnel have been told to keep quiet about any new technology they have come across but I'll put the question out there anyway.

Has any military personnel, who has been treated at a military hospital ever been exposed to equipment/technology etc not seen in a civilian Hospital?
Or even better are there any military nurses or doctors that could share some experiences?

I'd love to know what we're in store for in the next 50 years.


Cheers!




posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:35 AM
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Holy crap man! Have you ever seen a VA Hospital? Walter Reed anyone? They treat vets like pigs! If they do use any advanced medical techniques, it is because they are using the patient as a guinea pig.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by dashen
Holy crap man! Have you ever seen a VA Hospital? Walter Reed anyone? They treat vets like pigs! If they do use any advanced medical techniques, it is because they are using the patient as a guinea pig.


I'm sorry to hear that veterans are being mistreated.

My question was mainly directed at active personnel who get treated on bases.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


Was in armed services for five years. At one point we were told that our company was going to American Somoa for disaster relief purposes. We were told to report to medical and receive "inoculations". We were given hypo to the thigh that felt like a serious charlie horse for a week. No sooner was everyone finished they then told us we aren't going now. Another battalion was involved. I was not sick after that shot for a very long time. I was extremely healthy. Recently out of nowhere I was diagnosed with severe polymyositis. An extreme bummer but I cannot help but think that the two incidents are related. Cannot prove it. My wifes uncle was given shots when in national gaurd and he tells me the same story about not being sick for like twelve years then out of nowhere he has a long list of problems. Strange. I thought I'd share that.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:49 AM
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Well, I am not active duty but I am an Army Vet who was a medic in Germany for 3 yrs. I have not heard of the tecnology in the military, but have read stories about this, just don't remember where.
The military does "push" for taking college classes to improve your job preformance and to get promoted you have to apply yourself. It stands to reason, the more you study the smarter you are and many servicemen and women have invented and discovered amazing things!



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


Thanks for posting, I thought I might get a few people describing inoculations and injections before going off shore. this sounds similar to the Gulf War Syndrome that many returned soldiers have.

I guess this is the negative side to experimental medicine, the government have thousands of 'guinea pigs' to trial their creations on.

Again thanks for posting and my regards go to you.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:57 AM
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I can tell you that if such technologies were available, they certainly were not in use 20 years ago. Military medical services was adequate back then, at least for active duty personnel.

Of course once you're out, the VA takes over and in the end..., well, let's just say "third-world" would be a relatively fair assessment of what I've seen there.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by dashen
Holy crap man! Have you ever seen a VA Hospital? Walter Reed anyone? They treat vets like pigs! If they do use any advanced medical techniques, it is because they are using the patient as a guinea pig.



really interesting thread, cant wait to see it develop

just wanted to pop in and say

i dont think he's referring to the vet hospitals, and i agree with you, they dont get the respect they deserve



now i dont have proof of my opinion but in my opinion, the technology available to the vets, is only a fraction of a percent of what the military has available to them

i think maybe what the op is referring to is what type of technology and knowledge do they have in development that they have yet to pass to the mainstream, like he was talking about with limb and extremity regeneration and that sort of thing



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 


not sure about technology but in the rnli we use what is known as isreali dressings . these are not yet available to civvy st . which is a shame as theyre a great bit of kit even an idiot could stop a bleed with one



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 06:26 PM
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It is true that wars generally generate 'new techniques and equipment' in miltary medicine. This has been proven throughout history. Some examples:-

WW1 - Blood Transfusions
Pre-WW2 - Femoral Nailing
WW2 - Plastic Surgery

Some of the best techniques/research about knee replacements have come from the British Army's Doctors stationed in Northern Ireland during the 'troubles' as a result from the IRA's habit of 'kneecapping'.

As for keeping some of these techniques secret, I dont think that could happen, at least in the UK - Over half of the defence medical services personnel are made up from the civilian NHS via the TA.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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As a disabled vet, I am often at the VA clinic in Superior WI, or the main VA Hospital in Minneapolis. I have always been treated with respect, and their professionalism has been outstanding. The facilities are always clean and hospitable. I can only speak of my own experiences, and based on them I find the VA to be an Outstanding Medical Facility.

As to the use of future medical techniques... the biggest change I have seen is the small computer tablets the Dr.'s use for recording their notes during the visit. The tablets streamline the info so that all my different Dr.'s know what meds I am taking, or what my different medical problems are. I have noticed a BIG positive difference in my medical care because of the the electronic record keeping.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by jackflap
 


Thanks for posting, I thought I might get a few people describing inoculations and injections before going off shore. this sounds similar to the Gulf War Syndrome that many returned soldiers have.



Actually the battalion was overseas at that particular time. I thought we had been given all the shots we needed. We were in the same area as the island they claimed we were going to. Just one company was given shots for this supposed deployment.



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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Thanks for all the replies guys, there's some good information being presented here, quite a lot varied than I thought it would be

These inoculations are worrying, particularly the ones Jackflap mentions.


[edit on 10-2-2009 by Chadwickus]



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus

These inoculations are worrying, particularly the ones Jackflap mentions.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Chadwickus]



These are worrying your right but far from the intriguing topic of the post. I really didn't mean to get us off subject but I read through the thread and remembered that bit of weirdness. Anyway I found some interesting things looking into this story.

The link you provided at the start of the thread leads us to a story that is dated 12-22-08. In it is this:

The cream-colored crystallized powder, called "magic dust," boosts the body's natural tendency to repair itself, said U.S. Army Biological Scientist Sgt. Glen Rossman. When the matrix is applied to a missing digit or limb, "the body thinks it's back in the womb," Rossman said.

One civilian participated in the regenerative-medicine study after cutting off the tip of his finger in a model plane's propeller. Researchers continually applied the matrix to the wound, and after four weeks, the body grew skin and tissue to replenish the damaged area.

Another article that I found was very interesting also but dated 3-23-08.
About a nine month difference. In it we find this:

Three years ago, Lee Spievack sliced off the tip of his finger in the propeller of a hobby shop airplane.

What happened next, Andrews reports, propelled him into the future of medicine. Spievack's brother, Alan, a medical research scientist, sent him a special powder and told him to sprinkle it on the wound.

"I powdered it on until it was covered," Spievack recalled.

To his astonishment, every bit of his fingertip grew back.
www.cbsnews.com...

The link you provided was dated 12-22-08. The story I found says this man used this powder three years prior and received the powder from his brother.

The link you provided tells us that researchers applied this powder continually for four weeks to a civilian.

That would put this powder being used or tested successfully in 2005.

Now this story:

Humans can regrow fingers?

When a hobby-store owner in Cincinnati sliced off his fingertip in 2005 while showing a customer why the motor on his model plane was dangerous, he went to the emergency room without the missing tip. He couldn't find it anywhere. The doctor bandaged the wound and recommended a skin graft to cover the top of his right-middle stub for cosmetic purposes, since nothing could be done to rebuild the finger.

This particular hobbyist happened to have a brother in the tissue-regeneration business, who told him to forego the skin graft and instead apply a powdered extract taken from pig's bladder to the raw finger tip.
health.howstuffworks.com...

First I have to question the fact that this stuff worked in 2005 and now the army, a full 3 years after the fact says they have a new technology. How far along are they now in their research? Nobody knew of this technology in 2005 as the doctor in the above article said there was nothing that could be done to rebuild the finger.

Next I wonder how many people suffered a similar accident, and remained disfigured, while Lee Spievack and his brother had access to advanced technology like this.

Just a couple thoughts on the topic. I am going to keep looking into this and I'm sure there is a whole lot more.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by jackflap
 


Good pick up.

Definitely a good indication of what they have and that they don't want the general public to know about it.



posted on Feb, 12 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by jackflap
 

Definitely a good indication of what they have and that they don't want the general public to know about it.



Looking for some more information I kept coming up with spider silk being tested as a possible new armor. The articles always eluded to the fact that the building blocks of this stuff could be used to rebuild tendon and bone.

Nexia and US Army spin the world’s first man-made spider silk performance fibers

"Second, the material from mammalian cells was spun into fibers with significant toughness. Scientists have been successful in producing spider silk proteins in bacteria and yeast in the past, but for a number of reasons, have been unable to spin fibers with appreciable properties. Now with the availability of mammalian-derived BioSteel® fibers, we can begin to optimize the spinning process in order to tailor BioSteel® properties for a wide range of applications. We are grateful to the US Army team at Natick and our other collaborators for their expert guidance in this project," added Dr. Karatzas.
www.eurekalert.org...

Keep in mind the above article is dated 2002.

This one dated 2007.

High-tech armour from widow spider silk?

The silk's properties have interested the military, medical and sporting worlds, who are keen to explore the possibility of copying the structure of the silk for lightweight body armour, medical devices and athletic attire.
There are currently no products on the market based on the dragline silk of spiders.
www.cosmosmagazine.com...

This one dated 2008.

Artificial spider silk could improve body armor, parachutes

The proteins derived from the goat's milk can be spun into strong, lightweight, and extremely elastic silk to be used in the construction of light, bulletproof vests for the military. The fibers can also be used for much stronger parachutes enabling larger payloads to be delivered. They can also be used to create artificial ligaments.
"We have now produced 15 new spider silks," Dr. Lewis said. "We think that we should be able to improve their properties as we improve the process of spinning the fibers."
www.globalsecurity.org...


There is no doubt in my mind that we have people walking around today with bones and ligaments as hard as steel.



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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Nanoparticle 'Smart Bomb' Targets Drug Delivery To Cancer Cells

ScienceDaily (Feb. 16, 2009) — Researchers at North Carolina State University have successfully modified a common plant virus to deliver drugs only to specific cells inside the human body, without affecting surrounding tissue. These tiny "smart bombs" - each one thousands of times smaller than the width of a human hair - could lead to more effective chemotherapy treatments with greatly reduced, or even eliminated, side effects.
www.sciencedaily.com...

Stealth Particles To Target Tumors
ScienceDaily (Sep. 13, 2005) —

Washington, D.C. – Stealth nano particles may some day target tumor cells and deliver medication to specific body locations, according to Penn State chemical engineers.
www.sciencedaily.com...

A difference of four years in the articles. At this point I believe there are nanomedicines in everyone.



[edit on 17-2-2009 by jackflap]



posted on Feb, 17 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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It's an interesting question.

As a few people have said – if they have advanced military medicine, I don't think they're passing it out freely. And certainly not at VA hospitals.

But I would be surprised if the armed services weren't a popular ground for testing new drugs/procedures. That wouldn't necessarily mean that they were out of the public eye because they were "classified", but just that they haven't been approved yet and so aren't available to civilians. My guess is that this kind of research would be going on in conjunction with or at least communication with medical researchers in academia, though.

And I personally am plenty paranoid enough to believe that some of that research could be going on without appropriate informed consent, and that some could even be research involving weaponizable chemicals rather than being purely for the benefit of medicine.

The other thing is that I recall reading last year I think about a new book that the defense department was trying to prevent publication of, but I think it ended up being published. It was on new trauma techniques that have been developed in Afghanistan and Iraq. I'll try and look it up.

 


Here you go:

The Borden Institute appears to be the branch of the army that publishes books on military medicine. The link is to a list of available books, including:

War Surgery in Afghanistan and Iraq which I think is the book that I had heard about. It's available there in pdf format apparently, for anyone who's into case studies of battlefield surgery


[edit on 2/17/09 by americandingbat]



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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Thanks for the replies americandingbat and jackflap, I forgot about this thread lol.

I have a bit of reading to do now, thanks







posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by da pickles
reply to post by Chadwickus
 


not sure about technology but in the rnli we use what is known as isreali dressings . these are not yet available to civvy st . which is a shame as theyre a great bit of kit even an idiot could stop a bleed with one


There are a few products available to anyone now that work just the same, but I'm sure they originated from the Isreali dressing's blood clotting propeties though. They're good to have around, we have them at work, you just have to be careful when using them. QuikClot seems to be the leader of otc products in America.




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