Please help me to understand my bitterness towards Judaism.

I have a business doing home repairs , like all home owners , all, they want it done asap. What i find amusing with my Jewish clientle is by no means can i work on a Saturday, thats their day of Sabbath, but they have no prob with me working on Sunday ............. my Sabbath day. I don,t btw.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


My reply to that would have to be that international law is pointless and moot. In the end, might will always be right.

Who gave the land to the Palestinians in the first place? Nobody

Who gives Israel the authority to live in that land? Nobody

The nature of state-existence is ridiculous. States spring up overnight and they can act like what they do or say is eternally binding; but in the end they are nothing but temporary polities.

The legality of Israel's existence then, is less important than the situation on the ground. Anyway, let's not detract from the topic by going into Israel-Palestine here... its been done to death.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


I was addressing a specific issue which sort of skewed the way I wrote. Overall I would say I'm fairly impartial and treat each person as they treat me.

However I also think that there are commonalities amongst groups. I believe that there are differences between groups as a whole. Statistics show it; I've experienced it etc.

I meant I can understand the mentality of a self-subscribing Jew since I know many of them. A person can be born Jewish, not follow the faith and I would know nothing about him. However when a person follows the religion, they become part of it... they follow its rules etc and thus by and large become homogeneous.

My dislike for other groups (as a whole) comes from my experience of a large number of people within that group; and from other sources. I wouldn't expand the behaviour of one person to the groups he belongs to, but when you meet hundreds of people from the group who behave in a certain way, you begin to take a stance for/against that entire group (based on your perceptions). Again I should stress that I treat each person impartially at first, but I refuse to blur out the truth when it comes to the group as a whole.

reply to post by Byrd


I can definitely see that. Even if some jewish moneylenders are corrupt, you can't blame all Jews.

But it is interesting that you bring Jewish moneylenders into the picture... because I would like to make a possible connection here. Is it possible that, over the years, a section of Judaism HAS become corrupt in it's teachings... because like Dashen said "chosen" to Jewish teachings means that they have been chosen to be responsible for suffering or mistakes of the entire world... but could that premise have not been perverted by certain groups within Judaism (mainly the groups which have gained power at various times throughout history and may be the reason for the tarnished attitude towards the whole lot) to come to mean "we're responsible, whereas gentiles are not, and therefore we are more fit to control things such as finance and media and decision-making"?

Could certain sects of Judaism be teaching a perverted version of Judaism which sees gentiles as unfit to be in control?

Certainly, this hatred over millenia did not just appear because one person a long long time ago had a Jewish friend that slept with his wife, so he decided to spread viscious rumors....

It had to have started because a certain group within Judaism (not the whole enchilada) decided that they should be in control of (EDIT: i accidentally typed non-gentiles) gentiles. Somebody doesn't just decide to be a money lender out of the goodness of their heart. They either want power or wealth or both. This is universally human, but for some reason, has been associated with Jewish groups for a long time now. Just like legend and mythology and such.... there has to be a basis in truth there.

Now.... racism against ethnicities such as Africans is based on fear and major culture shock... but "Jewish" culture is not shockingly different from the culture that has surrounded it's conception for millenia... so this prejudice and/or hatred has to have originated from something more than just fear or some guy feeling cheated once.

Does anybody have an idea of whether there may be some sort of historical reference for the idea that people should be suspicious or even downright hateful of popular Jewish practices such as money lending and such? I'm not so sure it's as simple as the tall tale of the man who caught a catfish but through the years the story turned into him battling Nessie, if ya know what I'm saying.... this is widespread... and I don't think it's really too offensive to ask. I'm genuinely curious.

If I knew the background of this whole scenario, I could more easily understand... a whole lotta things.

I should prolly get to bed for now. I work nightshift.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by dunwichwitch]

I'm soooo tired of this crap. The Masons control the world, under the auspices of the Bilderberg Group based out of Geneva. JEWS are not allowed to be 33rd Degree Masons, as you must accept jesus as your savior to be inducted. Jews are the go-to guys when you want to blame someone for monetary scammery. I will crush you all with my wallet.

Originally posted by dashen
JEWS are not allowed to be 33rd Degree Masons, as you must accept jesus as your savior to be inducted.

Really?
I thought it was believing in the 'architect of the Universe'.

well OP let me tell you my belief. and i am a jew. well...born in usa to israeli parents. ...uh oh did i just give away my identity?!?!

ok so i believe that a lack of tolerance and understanding for ANYTHING is a lack of tolerance and understanding for ones self. that and the fact that you may label people as jews rather than judge them based on their character. for instance i constantly hear how blacks are the cause to theft and low class yadda yadda. well thats wrong to generalize like that. i will agree with statistics but i will NEVER judge a specific human being based off of such a generalization.

now when you say "bitterness toward judaism" as in the the religion? well i would say its the same thing. judaism, islam, all of it. it has good intentions. but for who? the jews. same as all religions. except buddhism n such. religion says "my way is right and yours is wrong. my beliefs are rigth and i am serving the ultimate purpose and i pity you because you are headed to eternal damnation yadda yadda. we are the chosen ones, special ones, etc."

and this my friend is why i believe religion itself is the conspiracy created to cause separation. i mean come on bud, 3 of the worlds largest religions fighting over the SAME piece of land!!?? WTF!!!

one love...uugh

reply to post by 44soulslayer


I can accept what you are saying and I can honestly see where you are coming from even though we both know that it is not true.

It feels true and we accept it as true but it does not take a lot of scientific observation to see the holes.

Look at your community. You will admit that there are a lot of common characteristics and behaviors that you share with other members of your community. But I am willing to bet that you see yourself as different and set apart from your community as a whole. I bet you would find it offensive if someone judged you solely on the fact that you were born or raised in a particular community and you would have to prove to them that you were different to be considered acceptable.

Now look at all the characteristics that you think you share with all the other members of your community that you think makes your community unique and tell me that no other community on this planet shares those same characteristics or behavior.

I know the lies that we have told ourselves and I am just as guilty as the next person. We judge people whether it is right or wrong on our past experiences and our perceptions.

Maybe it is basic survival the way a rabbit knows to run from a fox. It is just that our world has changed so much and has gotten so much smaller that a lot of the perceptions are no longer valid.

You noticed I made all my analogies based on communities and not race because are behaviors are taught. We develop who we are, what we believe and how we act from those that are around us.

A Japanese child raised in a mid western family will sound, act and have the same beliefs as any other child raised in that community. Japan, the language, behavior and beliefs would be as foreign to that child as palm trees to an Aleutian.

It is going to be hard and it is going to take time but we are going to have to stop pigeoning people into little cubbyholes based on contaminated perceptions. I know that I will probably not live long enough to see this happen but it will still be one of my hopes for our future.

reply to post by dunwichwitch

Wether you agree with the Jewish mindset or their apparant lack of belief that Jesus is the messiah, the bible is clear. In the last days the Jews will be visited by two witnesses who will show them if you will the error of their thinking. This is God's mercy being shown to his wayward people before his return. Now jehovas witnesses that come to my door like to tell me that Israel gave up their right to be God's chosen people because of their disbelief, and like to claim that they are the 144,000 mentioned in Revelations, they couldn't be more wrong of course. There are 12 tribes of Israel and 12x12 is 144,000. I trump the jehovas witnesses by telling them that out of 7 million members of their cult, I mean religion, how are they going to determine which members are these chosen few? I have not recieved an answer yet. The return of Christ is near for all who read this. The signs of his comming are evident. He who has an ear let him hear. Judgment day is coming for all of us regardless of what you believe or don't believe. Prepare your hearts and your minds for what is to come very soon. I will say the easiest tenant to follow is to treat others as you would like to be treated, be kind, compassionate, be like a little child. We all of us know what is good or evil, we inherited that a long long time ago. Each must choose and live or die by that choice. Guard your yourselves from temptation and let the good that resides in us all take the lead each day, you can't go wrong with that unless you are truly evil. "I didn't know" will not cut it on that day, we all know inherently the difference.

Go with God
A Guardian

I've been reading this site for a few months now and this is my first reply. I feel that I can hopefully set some of you all straight on some things. I'm not religious really... I"M SPIRITUAL! We are ALL here from the same source of all being! (IMO) I was adopted into a Jewish family at birth. I was raised learning about the religion, learned Hebrew, and had my Bar Mitzvah. (Jewish coming of age ceremony) The reason the Jews are considered the "Chosen People" is they are the group "God" chose to give the Torah (Old Testament) to. The stories and history of Judaism is actually very intriguing, and some ATS'ers may find some of these facts interesting.

1. "God" gave Moses the Torah (Old Testament) on Mt. Sinai. The way it was described is definitely a possible UFO interaction.

2. Sir Issac Newton actually spent more time studying the Jewish Torah then all other things he was known for COMBINED!!! He was completely OBSESSED with it! He once said he believes "Everything that ever is, was, or will be is in the Torah." (or something very close to that)

3. Jews and gentiles are all studying what they believe to be a code in the Torah. The Torah did not come in "story form" but as one continuous strand of letters "from God" Look up "The Bible Code" by Michael Dresden (spelling???) a non Jew journalist.

Before I get too far off track, I want to relay my feelings about the original thread. The reason you might "hate" Jews is because you don't understand them. People have a tendency to be scared of what is unknown to them. Beyond that, like I said before, is that WE ARE ALL HERE FROM THE EXACT SAME THING!!! No matter what religion, race, ethnicity, etc you are, the exact same "thing" made us all! PERIOD!

I feel once people remember that, we will be on the way to a much better state of affairs globally.

In closing, TRY NOT TO BE CLOSE MINDED! A person from ANY background could be your best friend. Don't cut them off before you gave them a chance. I love this site and look forward to posting more! Any questions, just ask!!!

PEACE!

What is interesting is that this dislike of the Jewish people seems to be quite universal throughout history. Take the last 1,000 years for example. Between 1012AD and 1891AD Jews had been banished from 47 locations in Europe and Russia alone, long before WW2

Noted Jewish Author Bernard Lazare noted the following:

In his book, (Anti-semitism, its history and causes), published in 1894, noted Jewish author, Bernard Lazare, stated the following with regard to these expulsions of Jews,
"If this hostility, even aversion, had only been shown towards the Jews at one period and in one country, it would be easy to unravel the limited causes of this anger, but this race has been on the contrary an object of hatred to all the peoples among whom it has established itself. It must be therefore, since the enemies of the Jews belonged to the most diverse races, since they lived in countries very distant from each other; since they were ruled by very different laws, governed by opposite principles, since they had neither the same morals, nor the same customs, since they were animated by unlike dispositions which did not permit them to judge of anything in the same way, it must be therefore that the general cause of anti-Semitism has always resided in Israel itself and not in those who have fought against Israel."

Professor Jesse H. Holmes, writing in, "The American Hebrew," expressed the following similar sentiments,
"It can hardly be an accident that antagonism directed against the Jews is to be found pretty much everywhere in the world where Jews and non-Jews are associated. And as the Jews are the common element of the situation it would seem probable, on the face of it, that the cause will be found in them rather than in the widely varying groups which feel this antagonism."

Given that this problem has a long historical nature, it is clear that you can not place blame on the media or any particular source that is intentionally trying to make Jews look bad. It has to be something about Jewish culture that bothers people. When jews assimilate into the surrounding society, they seem to do OK, such as in most of the US. When they stand apart and differentiate themselves, seems to be when the trouble arises in My opinion. While I don't necessarily agree, perhaps we can get an idea by looking at what Henry Ford said about the Jewish people.

"The genius of the Jews is to live off people, not off the land, nor off the production of commodities from raw materials, but off people. Let other people till the soil; the Jew, if he can, will live off the tiller. Let other people toil at trades and manufacture; the Jew will exploit the fruits of their work. That is his particular genius. If this genius be described as parasitic, the term would seem to be justified."

Seems a bit stereotypical, but perhaps there is a a small bit of truth to that, or at least in peoples perceptions. Many people say that the Jews are now living off of the American taxpayer whom fund the state of Israel, without which, Israel would not survive. The roots of prejudice can be difficult to understand sometimes, but they are always worth looking into.

I''d just like to end with my objection to the term Anti-Semite. It is an inaccurate label designed to demean the individual it is directed towards. Semites include BOTH Arabs and Jews. Prejudiced, or religious bigot might be more accurate. It always strikes me as both arrogant and ignorant, when a Jew calls an Arab an anti-semite.

reply to post by just_another_yourself

and this my friend is why i believe religion itself is the conspiracy created to cause separation. i mean come on bud, 3 of the worlds largest religions fighting over the SAME piece of land!!?? WTF!!!

I think that you have earned yourself a cigar.

I honestly believe that if you believe in Hell and you are looking for a way to get there; religion would be your best taxi.

I know a lot of people don't want to hear that because they think that if you criticize religion you are criticizing God; which is not true.

God is absent in most religions. They are more about rules and control then God. The God I recognize only has one rule and if you follow that one rule everything else falls right in to place. Naturally, the way he meant for it to be.

Funny thing is that it is not that complicated and everybody knows the one rule. It is just easier to muddy the water and pretend there is no bottom then to risk going in the river and finding out you can't swim.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


You are basing your experiences based on the bad few who do make the news. The same "news" coverage occurs over all races and faiths. Many of the anti-Muslim people I know only have knowledge of Islam based on what they "learn" from the news. Since the media is inclined to show bad news over good news, they tend to only see a negative aspect of Muslims.

The same is occurring with Judaism. The minority that does something bad makes the news.

Racism, bigotry, ethnic prejudice are a psychological self defense mechanisms employed by people who have low self esteem. They are the last exit of a loser from a sense of responsibilty for themselves.

Some people need a designated whipping boy to save themselves from complete self loathing.

It could be the blacks, the Jews, the Polish, in Canada the Newfoundlanders, in Holland the people from Friesland. Pick your whipping boy, the person who is going to elevate you one rung from the bottom.

You can be any kind of a s**t-heel in your personal life and you always have a go to designated person to despise as being even lower than yourself.

You can be a disgrace to the human race and still feel superior to a highly educated Jewish doctor, a superb black musician, an outstanding naval architect from Newfoundland or a top flight Friesian military officer.

The scum of the earth need it. Bigotry is here to stay.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
reply to post by dunwichwitch

 

You are basing your experiences based on the bad few who do make the news. The same "news" coverage occurs over all races and faiths. Many of the anti-Muslim people I know only have knowledge of Islam based on what they "learn" from the news. Since the media is inclined to show bad news over good news, they tend to only see a negative aspect of Muslims.

The same is occurring with Judaism. The minority that does something bad makes the news.

Are the only enlightened ones the ones that happen to show up here?

The MSM knows exactly how to push our buttons and manipulate the average viewer. They have set us up and programmed us like a video game.

I can almost see them sitting in their opulent penthouses entertaining their friends and playing the game of stimulate the masses.


We think the way they want us to think. We do what they want us to do. React the way they want us to react. We are so perfectly programmed that you would think they would be bored with us by now. So right now they want us to be racist bigots and depending on the day they will change the people we should hate.

We are always too happy to oblige.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by dunwichwitch

 

Edit to add : Btw you were not Hitler. They way reincarnation works is to balance your soul's experience. Hitler is undoubtedly reincarnated as a Jew... it will help his soul understand better the actions of his previous life, and cease the anger towards Jews.

[edit on 10-2-2009 by 44soulslayer]

I heard once that Hitler reincarnated as Michael Jackson, what do you all think? He got beaten a lot as a kid....

I may add something about Judaism, since my mother was Jewish (my dad was a Catholic but that's another story).

I read the first Post and I thought I may be able to at least address a couple of your points..

Chosen: well, the definitions given above by Dashen work for me.. the ones who Chose to follow the commandments etc.

Growing up in the east end of London in the 60's, to me Judaism was about these warm, friendly people who ate a lot of delicious food, Bagels, Chicken Soup, Lockshen Pudding etc. I grew fat. Every weekend we went to these places where the men and women sat apart and chatted with each other where these other men all wandered around with these books and scrolled and muttered their prayers at a fast mumble while bowing their heads like the glass Drinking Birds. The three groups had little attention between each other, the women talked to the women, the men to the other men and the priests muttered and "dovenned" (bowed) away.

Later we went to a different kind of "Shul" (Synagogue). The service was orderly, man and women sat together and everyone engaged in the procession of the service. And still the food was good.

When I was fifteen I felt that I was able to stand on my own spiritually and stopped going to synagogue with my parents, and interestingly started playing the guitar at the same time....

I remember my cousins and friends from the synagogue would all enthuse about israel and how I should go, but I've never had the inclination. Still don't.

I am not happy with what is going on there. I don't support oppression. I felt oppressed personally by my religion (hey and my dad was a catholic too). it's claustrophobic.

But there was the humour too, and the music - the melodies they played at the synagogues were truly uplifting - and in a way, thats really what it's supposed to be about. and this is what we should be getting to, something that we can all have, not just those who Chose...

To have a gathering of people who every week, relax and unload to their personal connection with spirit, while listening to beautiful soaring melodies. a small amount of fruit juice and bread, flowers or Incense and some kind of flame, to connect with the elements of nature.

To gather your inner resources and through the ensuing week bestow the blessings on your environment, as an out-breathing of the gathering.

From such a simple intention the whole process of community empowerment has been distorted and lost beneath its own complexity.

thats all we need. I believe we really do need this as humans. I ran a little Jam session for 9 years and that is what it became. Sometimes it was a drunken "Rammie", but other times it was sublime. We had a firepit outside where the smokers sat. Every Friday evening for 9 years. It has recently ended but the feeling and spirit lives on.

Humans need to gather with those of like heart and mind. to exchange energies, information, music, jokes. To sit around a fire and connect. That was the essence of the lesson I learned over that time..

So although that was a long-winded and rather self-centred story, the essence is, jews are you, as I am you, as we are all people. we all need to gether, we all need to jam together, and we all need to sit around a fire from each other.

wow I don't know if this is just me rambling, I hope it makes sense.

I too grew up thinking there was something wrong with the Jews.
Ridiculous!
How can you not?
The propaganda is everywhere -

My parents would comment on how "they" were with money -
that "they" were too important in the film industry -
and that gentiles and Jews shouldn't mix.
Rubbish!
.
Frankly - the Jews I have known - have been wonderful to know.
They have been generous and loving.
Intelligent and kind.
You have heard the crap for so long - you believe it.
But - it's crap.

Remember that there is no race, religion or country that has not caused destruction at one time or another. We are all the same.
The propaganda is just different.
Be someone who refuses to fall for it.

As I read this thread, all I keep hearing is - "Beware of those who call themselves Jews, but are not".

Revelation 2

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


Revelation 3

9Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


This also applies to Christians who call themselves Christian but are not, because back in that time you weren't called a Christian, you were a Jew.

So pretty much you are blaming a bunch of people who aren't even remotely involved with what you see going on in the world, from those who call themselves Jews but really aren't.

You might want to study up on WW2, and see how these people who call themselves Jews, but really aren't actually setup the holocaust as a blood sacrifice as a means to getting the state of Israel.




[edit on 10-2-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS



I understand your spiritual connection because I can relate.

I have no choice but to be spiritually connected because I am blessed with a earthly connection with almost every culture that is commonly known.

Grandfather Mother’s side Gross; Father’s side Wilkerson. Grandmother Mother's side Native American (reservation born and raised); Grandmother Father's side (Heinz 57). I can directly connect by a little more than five generations to almost every group on this planet. I consider myself blessed because I was never forced to have to deny or reject any member of my family. My siblings and my nieces and nephews have been accused of having a crisis of identity because they too refuse to allow others to define them.

I would love to have everyone on this earth be able to experience the joy and the magic that comes from being able to connect with another living entity just because you happen to be close enough to feel the other’s energy.

I have seen people shocked because a squirrel would come and sit on my foot and move to my shoulder because I gave it permission to connect with me. They have stopped their cars and taken pictures because they think it is some kind of trick.

The trick is letting go and reaching out. The trick is loving unconditionally. The trick is accepting that we are all connected. We are all one and that there is no life and death there is only new beginnings.


The

Reading the original post I think you can plug in any religion and be able to say the same things.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


Interesting in that I've known many Jewish people in my life and my current business partner is a Jew, but I've never heard of any of them or their families being "Money Lenders" or Bankers of any type? That would seem to be a cliche that is probably not very true.

One thing I've admired them for is their tight knit families and their commitment to getting a great education. The Jews I know have all done well due to their motivation and education. They are not dishonest, nor do they ever show animosity towards my being a Christian.

When I socialize with them, they are ordinary people but perhaps a little more outgoing and friendly than others. Most honor the Jewish Holidays but beyond that they have never shown me any rabid orthodoxy in their behavior.

My partner and his family are all from France originally and none of them like Israel, nor do they ever visit there. My partner tells me he hates it there because "they are all nuts".

He did have to pull his Son out of a school in Southern France out of fear for his life. He was in a private school that he could not afford out of fear of a Muslim Gang that was harassing him. He ended up having to bring him to the US anyway because the private school had a Radical Islamic Gang of rich Muslim children who were even more dangerous than in the public schools. Perhaps this has something to do with how Jewish People act. How could all that fear not change them?

None of the Jewish People I've known have been violent. I've never seen one of them get even remotely threatening towards anyone.

Perhaps your solution is to actually get to know some Jewish Folks and get all the myths and cliches out of your head.

I'm of full blooded German descent, so I assure you it is not hereditary other than by the usual brainwashing means used by bad parents who teach their children hate. I think often hatred is almost unknowingly passed on by example from parents. Sometimes parents are just plain bad people and their children can't accept it so they pass it along to their children. Obviously my Parents hated no one and taught me to not hate. I'm White and my first Wife was Black and my Family had no issue with that even though they were Mormon. I was lucky to have them for Parents and I'm reminded of that every day.

My Father would be over 100 today, so it is quite something that he was colorblind and tolerant of everyone. He did hate Politicians, people who hit children and women and those who cheated on their Wives however.

He told me to never trust a man who does not trust you and to never trust somebody who cheats on their Wife. He used to say "If they will cheat on their Wife, imagine what they will do to you". Had he lived to find out his hero President Kennedy cheated, he would have been emotionally destroyed for a while. To this day when I find out a friend has cheated on a Spouse, I never talk to them again. These values we get from our Parents stick to us.

Sorry about rambling on so much on your thread. Good luck figuring this out for yourself.