I'd like to know what Christians think of my lifestyle, debate NOT idiocy!

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch



Point....It does not mater what I or any other human things. What matters is what God thinks. He is strongly against paganisim, sorcery, "dark arts", etc, etc, etc.....

Personally, I would advise you to repent, seek God, do his commandments, keep his sabbaths and holydays.

There are so many who "think" they worship God, call themselves christian, but are standing beside you in reality. On the outside looking in......

try this..

Matthew 10:28 (King James Version)

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Only God can actually "kill" your soul. It is you who gives up the right to it through "sin"......

Originally posted by Masisoar
So you and Christians are both the same? You both believe a bunch of made up stuff? lol

explain what you question? I dont understand

Originally posted by heliosprime
reply to post by Yummy Freelunch

 

Point....It does not mater what I or any other human things. What matters is what God thinks. He is strongly against paganisim, sorcery, "dark arts", etc, etc, etc.....

Personally, I would advise you to repent, seek God, do his commandments, keep his sabbaths and holydays.

There are so many who "think" they worship God, call themselves christian, but are standing beside you in reality. On the outside looking in......

try this..

Matthew 10:28 (King James Version)

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Only God can actually "kill" your soul. It is you who gives up the right to it through "sin"......


Why would I want to KILL my soul? What lunacy is that!!! And who says I am into dark arts? These are the questions I ask of you!

[edit on 10-2-2009 by Yummy Freelunch]

With all due respect, I don't understand why you would care what one set of spiritual believers think about your set of spiritual beliefs. What does it matter? I mean, this same question can be asked in reverse, or asked by a Muslim, or for that matter a protestant asking of a Catholic. What's the point?

I'm a Christian (even though some want to accuse me of not being because I have a view of the Trinity different than theirs - hence the reason I don't ask what they think of my beliefs, I don't particular care what they think. I'll just say I feel "I stand on the right side of scripture" and leave it at that), and I can say to you that you and I believe differently. That's really all that can be said when you ask a believer of one set of spiritual beliefs what they think of your set of spiritual beliefs...right?

There you go - I don't believe like you. Short of that, why would you care what I think? My opinion or thoughts on your spiritual beliefs should have ZERO value to you.

Hope that helps! lol

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch
reply to post by justamomma

 

You are very knowledgeable about the Bible. I have a question for you. I have read it, myself, and I'd like to know..in the old testament, why does G.D speak to someone else when he talks about Adam and Eve in the garden and the tree of life. Who is he talking to?

What most do not understand about the Tanakh is that it is an allegory. It is meant for one people... for their blood line and no one else. It is not meant to exclude others, but rather to include who is a part of their "clan" or whatever you wish to call it. It is very much spiritual, and it is very real.. just not in the way that it has, unfortunately been pushed upon mankind... it is to teach our people of G.d's character to test our obedience as opposed to following after idols and images.

Unfortunately, most of our people have failed this. Adam and Eve was allegorical (as with the whole story of Noah), of our birth, enlightenment, and the following processes. The creation process, in all reality is ongoing... we are creating it even now. Just like we will never be able to perceive our spirits in this life, so will we never perceive the fullness of G.d's spirt... but what we do know is that as long as we are here, we are creating. The physical is merely the manifestation of the spiritual.

The truly fascinating part of the Tanakh, and the part that drew me in was that in Isaiah, He clearly states that it will only take one person's acknowlegment of the creation process now to activate the prophecies and that it would be confirmed in that they would see that the ancient things spoken of in there.. are happening now. And they are.

Even down to the declaration of our being sold into slavery here in America.. that is spoken of in Job. Job.. that mystery... that is us... America is Egypt. You perceive you are free and you are anything but.. yet, we have chosen this. Our prints on the Birth Certificates is mentioned in there... there is so much in there that it is no wonder in Daniel when it declares that you understand, you have understood the matter of the kings... and in that, you KNOW G.d. It is all quite fascintating and very real. And when you know, this life becomes less scary and thus, you feel no need to condemn any except those who have perverted G.d's ways.. which is to say, they have thrown out false guilt, shame, and fear to others. That is the sad part.

if god was against magic then he is a hipocrite because he gave his son the power to heal his son was human yet he had godly powers.........in turn is a bad way to lead an example of what he doesnt want dont you think?

Originally posted by Valhall
With all due respect, I don't understand why you would care what one set of spiritual believers think about your set of spiritual beliefs. What does it matter? I mean, this same question can be asked in reverse, or asked by a Muslim, or for that matter a protestant asking of a Catholic. What's the point?

I'm a Christian (even though some want to accuse me of not being because I have a view of the Trinity different than theirs - hence the reason I don't ask what they think of my beliefs, I don't particular care what they think. I'll just say I feel "I stand on the right side of scripture" and leave it at that), and I can say to you that you and I believe differently. That's really all that can be said when you ask a believer of one set of spiritual beliefs what they think of your set of spiritual beliefs...right?

There you go - I don't believe like you. Short of that, why would you care what I think? My opinion or thoughts on your spiritual beliefs should have ZERO value to you.

Hope that helps! lol

I suppose I ask this question, because for one thing, in the past, we were burned at the stake for these beliefs. Today..we dont get burned at the stake, we just get shunned from society, and people dont want their children playing with OUR children. So Yes, I ask..

Intersting thread, i find it interesting that Christians can't see hate towards pagan's which is so obviously very real in large areas of the world, it doesn't take long on scanning the AM dial to find a lot of people hating on 'satan worship', etc and i hardly need to mention that historically those who chose not to follow abraham were treated rather badly.

I'm not a christian or a pagan, i have studied both however and find them both.... i #interesting# for many reasons.

The pagan belief system is based loosely, VERY loosely of celtic polytheistic nature worship, anthropologicly in the west it has often been stated that when man first came to question himself that he invented a god for everything he didn't understand then as things like Rain and Fire got understood the old gods got died out as no one worshiped the god of fertility to get pregnant they had sex during the right cycle and vola. Then the more greek style gods were the main ones, WAR and LOVE were too complex for simple science so until the language of geopolitics, romance and psychology was developed they acted as a handy stop gap. Then only a few issues remained and one all powerful god was the only one left, modern athiests would say that that one god has died, we now have enough data to comprehend the chaotic determinism of the world.

Of course certain events got became important, there is a time in winter when the days in the northern hemisphere stop getting shorter, the sun settles for a while at it's most southerly point on the horizon and for three days seemingly stays frozen in one spot (setting location) before starting it's long swing back north for longer, hotter days. This happens and it marks the mid point of the year, the rebirth of summer and start of a new cycle - of course people who knew nothing but the sun and the soil thought this to be an important day, i still think its an important day and my heart fills with gladness whenever it happens, i have a large meal (nutloaf) and give gifts to my loved ones. The celtic people worshiped this day as a holy and had great feasts, the christians then when coming to germanic europe (celtic and germanic traditions are the same because they're sort of the same people by the time christianity got involved) they usurped the day as a holy festival and called it 'the Mass of Christ' which celebrates his birth
(despite is saying in the bible he was born during a jewish summer holiday) and remembers his (the SUN of god) eventual death on the cross (which almost always represents the sun, heh even the nazi cross or swastika represents the sun) and three days before rebirth (hehe remind you of anything....)

So in that most of Christianity is based rather obviously on pagan belief systems it stands to reason that they wouldn't want someone standing around saying
but thats what i believe, only mine is like this and it's older...' hehe it makes the actual reason for religion all too obvious

Now the reason that you can't possibly know much about real pagan practices and belief systems is the catholic church destroyed all knowledge of them, most monuments and texts and certainly any living person who knew the secrets - they did this precisely so that the old religion which they had plundered would be forgotten and their doctrine would be the only answer to lifes questions, thus they would gain much power and wealth (by henry the eigth the roman catholic church was the richest and probably most powerful organization in the known world, it was also violent and corrupt)

To do this they added subtle prompts in their texts and stories, it was strictly forbidden to even come in contact with those evil, evil satan worshippers. All sprites, elves, nymphs, etc are sent by the devil to temp you to sin and sin leads to eternal damnation.

All of this [non] subtle incitement to hate is still in the bible, it still echos from the pulpit and the AM dial - these people are still fighting the propaghanda wars of the middle ages. Your worship of gaia, of chaos and nature are offensive to the fear installed in the religion to protect it from and allow it to eradicate the pagan, infidel, heretic, satanic threat.

hehe now i've attacked the monotheists i should say in the interest of full disclosure that it could well because your religion is a bunch of psudohistorical nonsence based on a desire to believe something other than christianity, a vague longing for a connection with the natural world long since lost. sorry. In that christian believe what they believe to get away from the (historically probably very barbaric) old religions so too is modern paganism a reaction to the old christian doctrine.

Right and Wrong are not christian concepts, GOOD and EVIL however are, that things can be done for god or because of the devil is a very polarizing concept and is at odds with a true connection to nature as the original 'pagan' people had. Take for example the works of Homer, morality is certainly not a clear cut black and white issue for those gods or mortals. However in modern post-christian paganism the concept is very firmly ingrained, take for instance the many people who consider themselves a witch -almost all are either satan worshiping black magic types or they're a 'white witch' with mother nature, earth stones, etc (i know A LOT of both camp) which is a distinction certainly not made in nature. Which is evil, the Lion or the Zebra? Which is most moral, Eating or pooing? growth or decay? daytime or night time?

Nature is about balance, about chaos and order. Oh sorry i got off track, er, yeah they might laugh at you because they know your belief set is as screwed up as theirs.

Oh and no offence meant to anyone, the question was asked and i wanted to give a honest answer - i love you all, however crazy your belief system!

reply to post by justamomma

If every Christian thought the way you do, the world would be a better place.

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch

I suppose I ask this question, because for one thing, in the past, we were burned at the stake for these beliefs. Today..we dont get burned at the stake, we just get shunned from society, and people dont want their children playing with OUR children. So Yes, I ask..

Well, then you live in the wrong neighborhood. Just move...but don't try to validate something by throwing your fears out for debate with those you THINK want to persecute you or shun you. I'm not going to shun you. Just because I reject your belief system for myself, does not mean I reject you.

Putting your belief system out for debate with those you know don't believe like you is like reducing it to "does this dress make me look fat?" At some point, some one is going to say yes...just enjoy the dress and dance like it's 1999.

reply to post by NatureBoy


I have to say, that is the best interpretation of religion, in a paraphrase, that I've read! Kudos to you! Absolutely truthful! And a round about paraphrase that all men have ever believed.

here's what i think-

if your religion does not incite hated for others or religious views, start wars, and just generally be a thorn in man's side i think you have one up on every other religion out there. so what you believe is your business to be honest with you i wouldn't care if people thought pink rocks were god. as you can probably tell im not christian but i come from a christian background so i thought i would give you my 2 cents

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch

I suppose I ask this question, because for one thing, in the past, we were burned at the stake for these beliefs. Today..we dont get burned at the stake, we just get shunned from society, and people dont want their children playing with OUR children. So Yes, I ask..

Well, then you live in the wrong neighborhood. Just move...but don't try to validate something by throwing your fears out for debate with those you THINK want to persecute you or shun you. I'm not going to shun you. Just because I reject your belief system for myself, does not mean I reject you.

Putting your belief system out for debate with those you know don't believe like you is like reducing it to "does this dress make me look fat?" At some point, some one is going to say yes...just enjoy the dress and dance like it's 1999.

Sorry, I have to quote because I have a very short memory. I've moved a hundred times..ok, maybe not that many..but alot. I wont find solace, because the U.S is not as FREE thinking as people think.
Look..if the dress makes me look fat..then I'm fat, but I can change that, I cant change my beliefs. Or, I should say, I wont. I put this out there, because Im curious as to WHY! Not because I like that extra slice of pizza

reply to post by paradox headache


Well, we try not to incite hatred..but I dont know many who have asked the questions I am asking here, either. Maybe its a no-no..but IM a very curious person

Originally posted by Yummy Freelunch

Sorry, I have to quote because I have a very short memory. I've moved a hundred times..ok, maybe not that many..but alot. I wont find solace, because the U.S is not as FREE thinking as people think.
Look..if the dress makes me look fat..then I'm fat, but I can change that, I cant change my beliefs. Or, I should say, I wont. I put this out there, because Im curious as to WHY! Not because I like that extra slice of pizza

Yeah, the "just move" comment was meant figuratively. I just mean avoid those who cannot accept you as a fellow human being (in my belief system, a fellow child of God)....they lose more than you do.

And that was my point on the dress analogy. If you are firm in your belief system, then it should not be offered up as a "what do you think" to a group that you know has an inherent contradiction. Christianity and Paganism cannot be brought into agreement. See my point? What eventually comes out is that inherent to Christian belief is the requirement of the belief in salvation through the gift given by the Saviour, Christ. At that point, you have an argument. But the argument was there all along. And bringing the argument out doesn't do any one any good or change anything. Because the required belief in Jesus Christ as our Savior is integral to the Christian belief. PLEASE JUST ACCEPT THAT. Just as I accept that your belief system involves the spiritualization of nature.

It's a difference in belief systems. What I fear is that you want to take the Christian requirement of belief in Christ and use it to say Christians are intolerant. That's not true...they just believe different than you.

In other words, yes, they think that dress makes you look fat...now are you going to change one thing about your outfit because of that? When it comes to belief systems, I hope to pete we're not making decisions based on just each other's opinions of our selections.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Valhall]

reply to post by Valhall


No, I can accept the dress makes me look fat. That is satisfactory to you.

I'm off to bed, Ty for all your replies

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Im not a Christian (though I do believe that Christ was an incarnation).

I just wanted to share a couple of my favourite quotes:

"As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee."

"Whosoever comes to Me, through whatsoever form, I reach him; all men are struggling through paths which in the end lead to me."

Thanks

All roads lead to Rome

Very true



OP, I think that the reason that many will be angry with you is due to the fact that you follow nature. A lot of christians believe you must worship god or be punished almost.

Sounds like a very Catholic area you live in.

Christianity itself has many forms.

Im not going to point out my views on your thread though.



[edit on 10-2-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


It is interesting you mentioned Gerald Gardener. Gatlinberg, Tennessee used to have a museum of his collection. according to the guidebook from the museum, Gardener described himself as King of the Witches not as King of the Wiccans.

reply to post by Yummy Freelunch


Well here's my $0.02,

Let's be honest first, tell me of the persecution that you have suffered, did someone say your beliefs are wrong? Well honey, that's not persecution, because saying someones beliefs are wrong is starting to become a crime (Christians are an exception to this, they spit in our God's face and make millions off it, yet to draw a cartoon or attack another religion will land your butt in jail), I would like to know if you truly have been persecuted and what the heck they did to ya, did they try to see if you would float (lol, little Monty Python humor there)?

Now with that outta the way, What do I think of Wiccans? Well, I have had several friends that were wiccans, so I'll go off of what they told me, they told me that it's a silly religion, many beliefs are taken from the Bible and some Pagan beliefs, twisted around to fit whatever world view they have at the time, well, I don't disagree with them, that's what I've seen personally from wiccans, one told me he doesn't know what he believes, lol, how ignorant, that guy was a d-bag anyways. Most of the Wiccans I know are goth/emo kids that think it's cool, they dress in black, were there makeup and practice a religion that there parents despise simply because there parents despise it and it is celebrated on tv.

Do I believe Wiccan is Witchcraft? Well, Only if those wiccans call upon a some supernatural being other than God to help them do something, or if they are in communion with some other supernatural being. That's pretty much what the Bible means by witchcraft, sorcery, well that's pretty much altering the mind, either by drugs or mental manipulation, heck even microchips, drugs for the brain to fix a problem are never good, never turn out good either (side effects), there are natural non harmful ways to get over depression, through psychology and changing your diet to a raw vegan diet, clears that depression right up (mostly cause your become slim, trim, toned and look young when you get on that diet, btw, I think eating meat is actually rooted in Paganism, not "Christianity").

So what do I think of your religion, well, I'm not going to stop you, but I will tell you that it's wrong, so quit worshiping the earth and start worshiping the Creator of the earth, honestly which one is greater? God gave you the earth, least you could do is thank Him, do whatever you want, but I'm just saying, I'd much rather believe that the Creator of the universe came to earth in the form of a human, spent time with us and paid a sacrificial price for all my wrong doings, so in return I would show love to my fellow man and to all His creatures. You see, I do love all of Gods creatures, I'm not your average "Christian", but I don't believe that animals or the planet are more important that myself, because I am created in the image of God, as well as you.

-Lahara