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Mummies found in Pyramids

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posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by CoolBlackHole
 




I see your 59,000 and raise you 154,000.

just because you get a lot of results on Google doesn't mean you'll get what you're looking for.




posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 04:31 AM
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reply to post by haika
 


Really? That I didn't know.

I think what I was trying to say was pyramids are not tombs, and this is why none have been found...but now 2 people on this thread have said they have found 2 cases of mummies/corpses in specifically pyramids.

I did research myself and couldn't find any...until now... so apparently I am mistaken. sorry about that chief.

*are these sources good I put to you? (to climb outta that hole I was digging)


wZn



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow
 

Hiya WZN, I think the idea that no bodies have ever been found in a Pyramid has been told so many times it's become real. Until your post, I was unsure too. You're right about about not finding anything through Google. It took a lot of variations and keywords to find those links to Egyptian pyramids. Tombs=plenty of remains: Pyramids=very little.

It seems that the Pyramids have at least one mystery for every discovery



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
Nassim Hashim is correct and has not been proven wrong in his claim no mummy OR dead body has ever been found in a PYRAMID on EARTH EVER.

btw the title of this thread is very misleading.

wZn


Not so the remains of Neferu-ptah were found in her pyramid

www.abovetopsecret.com...


One of the most common fringe claims is that.

"no pyramid has been found with a body in it"

Obviously that is not correct, as their are commonly known pyramids in mesoamerica that have them, and they have been found in situ and in recent times.

So the claim changed

"No Egyptian pyramid has been found with a body in it"

That one is false too, but before I show the evidence for that let me briefly explore the history of that phase, "No........pyramid has been found with a body in it"

I first came across it in early UFO materials, when Neferu-ptah was found it switched from

"No pyramid has been found with a body in it" to the more sexist, No pyramid has been found with a pharaoh in it"

Later when the Meso pyramids were found with bodies of kings it changed again

to "No Egyptian pyramids have been found with a Pharaoh inside" and the ultimate, "No Giza pyramid has been found with a Pharaoh inside".

Now the original phase has been coming back as fringe people, data mine the old UFO materials for materials.

So now to Neferu-ptah

Neferu-Ptah was a daughter of the Egyptian king Amenemhat III (c. 1860 BC to 1814 BC). She was unusual as she may have been planning to be one of the female pharaohs, but she died young.

Her intact pyramid tomb with mummy were found at Hawara she was the daughter of Amenemhet III.

The discovery is covered here in this book.

Bob Brier, Ancient Egyptian Magic, William morrow & Company, inc NY 1981, ppg 32, 33 117-118 ISBN ISBN-13: 978-0688007966 (for the 1998 paperback edition)


That is for Egyptian pyramids there have been burials found in Meso American ones too

[edit on 10/2/09 by Hanslune]



posted on Feb, 10 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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Historic discrepancies? An example, please.

Sorry, not EVERYONE has a story about a great flood. Some cultures have stories about local floods for that is all they would have known. Besides, you're probably referring to the biblical flood, a myth, since researchers have proven local floods as being responsible for tales of a global flood, something no one in any other part of the world would have known about. Locality, that's all they knew.

Modern day man has made up a global flood 'cause they believe the biblical crap, mostly borrowed from others.

Hey, you forgot about Atlantis!


Originally posted by DJones
How do you explain all the historic discrepancies then?

I for one have to put a little weight behind all ancient civilizations all saying there was something from the heavens that taught them their #. The same way as how everyone has a story about a great flood. Did they all just make that up?



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by Learhoag
Historic discrepancies? An example, please.

Sorry, not EVERYONE has a story about a great flood. Some cultures have stories about local floods for that is all they would have known. Besides, you're probably referring to the biblical flood, a myth, since researchers have proven local floods as being responsible for tales of a global flood, something no one in any other part of the world would have known about. Locality, that's all they knew.


How are you so sure about "locality, that's all they knew"?

All that the researches do is theorize about something with the help of some evidence, that doesn't prove anything for a fact. Especially when you take into consideration all the will that some have to disprove something based pretty much on thin air without even considering everything that is know.

How about the "discrepancies" regarding coca traces being found in hair analysis of Egyptian mummies?

As far as I know coca doesn't grow in that region and it's a typical plant of the South/Central America. So with that in mind, if they were smart enough to cross the Atlantic Ocean to get in contact with each other, probably others would be too.

This is enough to make you question this whole argument that ancient civilization lived isolated from others without being aware of anything global, to be honest it's pretty much stupid to think such thing.



posted on Feb, 11 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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What I meant by historical discrepancies:
(note I'm terrible with names ask about a specific one and I'll try to reference it)

Above mentioned Japanese pyramid with 10000 years of coral on it

Some map that has been untouched since the 1500's that was based on much older maps that have both South America and Antarctica coastlines. The Antarctica map showed the coastline without ice. Only when we had satellites could we even confirm it was correct.

Apparent man made objects found in coal deposits

The Nazca lines appeal to me personally because they are the first thing that stood out in my mind and got me thinking.

Sumerian and other ancient writings that not only tell of all of our planets in our system but also they're color and distance

Neolithic ruins in africa that correctly depict the distance of stars from us as well as the shape of the milky way.

The Dogon tribe's ancient myths, that eerily depict what we have only recently known about quantum physics.

The deformed human skulls (yes I know we can deform our own skulls but why might I ask) that are found in religious areas in south America that are shown to be their sun gods and have twice the cranium capacity of a normal human.

Neolithic ruins, from France and Great Britain dated back to when we apparently could hardly survive.

The one pyramid that's fifty feet lower than it should be. No they did not dig 50 into the desert and start the pyramid there

A bunch of stuff from the Hindu Epic, not sure of name

Apparently intelligently designed Grooved spheres found in the middle of ancient rocks

Ica Stones ( I know, could be fake)

The Antikythera Mechanism, we have no idea what even the romans were capable of

The Baghdad Battery, same thing as above

I can usually think of more but that's an idea of what I'm talking about

All I can say is that we don't even have tangible evidence of ships 3000 years ago, why are we saying its absolutely impossible for there to have been civilized and intelligent people 10000 years ago.

What if we blew up the world tomorrow (nuclear holocaust), what evidence would their be from us in 10000 years. Probably some, but only because we produce plastics and other non biodegradable substances.

But would they think we were capable of the internet, would the Large Hadron Collider be around? I think they would believe we were as savage as most people think about our ancestors.

Side question: I have always wondered what great historical evidence was destroyed when the library in Alexandria was burnt down. IMHO one of the worst things ever to happen from an archeological point of view.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by DJones]



posted on Feb, 13 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by DJones
 


DJ

You might want to come over to the Ancient and lost civilization forum where we can go thru those questions you have



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 04:14 AM
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reply to post by DJones
 

I used to be well-versed in the ‘discrepancies of history, I pretty much grew up reading books about the weird and the wonderful. Why not? A lot of them are attractive books with compelling illustrations and beautiful photographs. Charles Berlitz’ The Bermuda Triangle was read many times. There came a day when I noticed ‘discrepancies’ in the books. Sometimes it was the words of a conversation between two people. How could the author know? This image of what Berlitz suggested was an airplane fuelled many a daydream…




It wasn’t long before the whole house of cards fell down. Check the sources and check opposing views to gain a more balanced perspective. Importantly, always check what the academics say about things. Many believers are convinced that science and scientists are scared or simply ignore ‘the Truth.’ Anyone with a basic knowledge of science knows that this is untrue. Archaeology and anthropology are always uncovering new findings. The knowledge of older civilizations is forever being extended and expanded.

The Japanese Pyramid is presented as definitely being a pyramid but there is still a certain amount of debate about the site. There’s a pdf you might find interesting here. National Geographic did an article also. If you read around the subject Masaaki Kimura seems to be the main advocate of the site being a man made pyramid.


Some map that has been untouched since the 1500's that was based on much older maps that have both South America and Antarctica coastlines. The Antarctica map showed the coastline without ice. Only when we had satellites could we even confirm it was correct.


This map is the Piri reis. It was created in 1513 from several earlier and existing maps by an Ottoman Admiral. Charles Hapgood was the first to state that it proved a lost ancient civilization from 10, 000 years ago.

Man-made objects found in coal depostits are usually supported by illustrations rather than photographs. Walls of heiroglyphics discovered in coal seams from the Cambrian period would be swarmed over by archaeologists. What happened to them? Creationists have used these stories to generate alleged anomalies in the Theory in Evolution. A great many of these 'ooparts' have been promoted by the esteemed Carl Baugh

Nazca lines still fascinate and there is still some debate over their purpose. The argument that they are somehow alien spaceports seems stretched as there isn't any evidence that the Nazcans were visited by aliens or that they had a mythology involving alien visitors. An opposing investigation is found here.


Sumerian and other ancient writings that not only tell of all of our planets in our system but also they're color and distance


The Sumerians were indeed committed early astronomers. They recorded their observations on clay tablets including eclipses. There isn't any evidence that they understood the physics behind planetary movements. The only evidence is that they recorded the movements.


Neolithic ruins in africa that correctly depict the distance of stars from us as well as the shape of the milky way.


There isn't really any evidence for this contention but it doesn't make African archaeology any less interesting. Anyone who's been to Africa and looked at the night sky will attest to the magic of the Milky Way. It's little wonder that African mythology and history is influenced by it.


In 1997 McKim Malville identified some very suggestive alignments at a megalithic complex in the southern Egyptian desert at Nabta, a site of seasonal habitation for nomadic pastoralists between 11,000 and 4,800 years ago (Malville et al. 1998). One stone circle exhibits a line-of-sight 'window' at an azimuth of 62 degrees; the rising mid-summer sun would have been visible in that direction circa 6,000 years BP. This is quite fittingly the oldest astronomically aligned structure yet discovered anywhere on the planet.
Center for Archaeoastronomy.


The Dogon tribe's ancient myths, that eerily depict what we have only recently known about quantum physics.


The Dogon Tribe caught my attention too. How could they know about Sirius? Who or what were the Nommon? Griule's expedition is the only one that evinced details of Sirius. Subsequent studies haven't supported his findings regarding Sirius. A popular debate questions if he or Temple mentioned Sirius to the Dogon.


The deformed human skulls (yes I know we can deform our own skulls but why might I ask) that are found in religious areas in south America that are shown to be their sun gods and have twice the cranium capacity of a normal human.


These deformed skulls have been found across the world and date back 10, 000 years. Rather than being the skulls of aliens (with human mitochondrial DNA!) there is a more prosaic explanation...


Cranial modification is caused during infancy through the shaping of a baby’s head whilst it is still malleable. Such shaping can be caused by both intentional and unintentional means, using objects such as bandages or textiles, wooden boards, or even simply massaging the head, causing either a flattening or elongation of the human skull
Artificial cranial modification in Ancient Iran

Edited to add the images and tidy it up.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Kandinsky]

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Kandinsky]



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 04:26 AM
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I also thought that none had been found actually in pyramids.

There was actually a news item on the BBC last week (9th Feb 09) that showed more than 20 mummies discovered, near the stepped pyramid, dating back more than 2600 years.

One limestone sarcophagus sealed with plaster is thought to be more than 4,000 years old.

The BBC camera crew were allowed to be there to film and you can watch it on the BBC website.

Link to News Item



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 05:39 AM
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Neolithic ruins, from France and Great Britain dated back to when we apparently could hardly survive.

Neolithic ruins have been widely studied for centuries and there is no serious question about them being built by anything other than human agency. It doesn't make them any less mysterious or intriguing. Artifacts and burial sites near these megaliths have been carbon dated and also dated by the technology and cultural references. Stonehenge has been extensively studied...




Stonehenge has been found to have a wooden precursor to the stone henge that shows the evolution of the monument and the culture of the people that built it. Instead of help from aliens or Atlantean technology, it shows the development of ideas and is testament to Man's ingenuity.




The one pyramid that's fifty feet lower than it should be. No they did not dig 50 into the desert and start the pyramid there

Not completely sure what the mystery is about a pyramid being buried beneath the sand. The majority of ancient Egyptian toms are buried beneath sand. Whilst the sand acts as an excellent preserver of ruins and remains, it is harder to excavate than earth. Sand is constantly mobile under the Saharan winds and can easily bury signs of human civilization over the centuries. I think the pyramid you describe is thought to be Menkauhor's. It was visible in the 18th century but was lost again beneath the sands.




A bunch of stuff from the Hindu Epic, not sure of name

This is the legendary nuclear war and flying machines found in the Rig Vedas and Mahabharata. Berlitz, Von Daniken and others have made a lot of money on the back of these claims. The fact that they are Sanskrit and unlikely to be researched by their readership has helped to keep this idea going for decades. I've avoided using wikipedia so far, but this Vimana wiki clearly shows the deceit that can occur in translation when a researcher fits the evidence to his theory.


"Dark the descent: the birds are golden-coloured; up to the heaven they fly robed in the waters. Again descend they from the seat of Order, and all the earth is moistened with their fatness." "Twelve are the fellies, and the wheel is single; three are the naves. What man hath understood it? Therein are set together spokes three hundred and sixty, which in nowise can be loosened." (trans. Griffith)

In Dayananda Saraswati's "translation", these verses become: "jumping into space speedily with a craft using fire and water ... containing twelve stamghas (pillars), one wheel, three machines, 300 pivots, and 60 instruments."


An accurate translation of the Rig Vedas can be read here. All the prayers and characters are there. A cursory look through some of the prayers reveals mentions of 'cars' that are used by the Gods. Rather than concluding they must be airplanes from a lost civilization or alien technology, they are more akin to Greek ideas of the Sun being a chariot.




Apparently intelligently designed Grooved spheres found in the middle of ancient rocks Ica Stones ( I know, could be fake)

The grooved spheres are fascinating to look at and |I'd certainly like to own one




They are known as Klerksdorp Spheres and have a geological explanation. The Ica Stones are still being touted as mysterious on websites and in 'mystery' books. The authors are in no hurry to offer opposing explanations. As we can see, if all these mysteries were removed from the literature, there would be very little left to fill the shelves. The Ica Stones are generally accepted as being a hoax.




The Antikythera Mechanism, we have no idea what even the romans were capable of

Again the Berlitz's of this world have made a great deal of mystification and innuendo about this artifact. It's certainly a beautiful looking mechanism. This is a reconstruction from last year...





Though many of its functions remain mysterious, previous research found that the device tracked and displayed the date, a 19-year calendar, and the positions of the sun and moon. The mechanism even predicted eclipses—though with limited accuracy—using an 18-year eclipse cycle, called the Saros cycle, that was known to Babylonian astronomers centuries before the mechanism was built.
National Geographic It's no less remarkable for being the product of human invention.




The Baghdad Battery, same thing as above

Again, a very interesting and puzzling artifact. It's been hotly debated for decades and used by the usual authors and websites to imply that the Egyptians had electrical lighting
The lack of evidence for wiring, generators or lightbulbs is blithely ignored or dismissed as being 'lost' over time. The 'battery' has been demonstrated to be capable of producing electricity




However, there is debateof whether it was ever designed to be a battery in the first place. The asphalt plugs that sealed the containers did not have holes to enable wires to tap the current. Of all the mysteries that you refer to, the Baghdad Battery is the only one with real substance. There is still no accepted explanation for the purpose they were created.



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by DJones
 

The alternative ideas I linked above aren't intended as a criticism of you or your ideas. As I first mentioned, I shared the exact same ideas some years ago. They are to demonstrate that the evidence we are given in some books and websites isn't always verified by the authors. Indeed, much of the evidence has been deliberately shaped to support the author's conclusions or world view.

If there was a lost ancient civilization, the evidence would lead to the conclusion that one existed. We can't conclude that there *was* a civilization and then look for the evidence. Always try to double check the facts that are presented.

The examples from the above posts demonstrate the magic and wonder of Man's ingenuity. They are incredible leaps in technology and culture. Are they diminished in any way at all for not being provided by aliens or 'lost' civilizations? The only thing that is diminished is the respect for our ancestors abilities and the hard work scientists expend to discover them.

Thanks for giving me a good reason to return the mysteries I used to love



posted on Feb, 14 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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Thanks for the links, when I believe anything outside the norm I like to know the mainstream theory better than the people I'm arguing about.

Just a couple comments:

About the Dogon, I personally, always assumed the Sirius aspect of them was a hoax. I learned about their monuments in a book called Forbidden Science, but for some reason all I can find on the internet about them is the stuff about Sirius claims. Which I find weird because the monuments show much more knowledge along with proof of their knowledge.

I don't understand how the sumerians, no matter how good of observers they were could correctly identify all the planets with no evidence of telescopes. Little less correctly predicting their color.

The mystery of the buried pyramid is that according to geologists, the pyramid would have to be 10-12 thousand years old to be in that position. Same thing with the sphinx, why is there heavy water erosion evidence on a monument in the middle of the desert?

From the article that you posted on the underwater pyramid I can't say that convinced me in anyway that it is a natural occurrence. If anything I find that even more incredible now.

The man-made objects in coal seems to me don't discredit evolution in anyway, but rather just questions what we know about carbon dating and how coal is formed.

The others for the most part are opinion based. That;s the thing I find so frustrating about arguments like this is that almost everything can be explained by some 'miracle of probability' in nature. Everything that can't be is automatically labeled a hoax, misinterpretation, or outright historic story telling.

As an example, I'll throw out crop circles. Of course some of them are hoax's but some would require massive teams led by mathematicians and biologists. If you doubt that watch Nassim Haramein's long 4 hour video, when he gets to the crop circles I want to hear an explanation for them. It's long and slow to start but his reasoning makes sense. I personally have always thought the idea of dark matter was ridiculous so his theory fits with me a lot better.

And no offense taken at all, if I didn't want to get criticized I wouldn't post my thoughts. I will say though over the last week or so I've been watching Nassim Haramein's video's and he is very persuasive, and I've been looking but not finding much to discredit him. When I say discredit I mean his facts and not his speculations he is clear in distinguishing the two.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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reply to post by DJones
 
Thanks



About the Dogon, I personally, always assumed the Sirius aspect of them was a hoax. I learned about their monuments in a book called Forbidden Science, but for some reason all I can find on the internet about them is the stuff about Sirius claims. Which I find weird because the monuments show much more knowledge along with proof of their knowledge.


The Dogon account of Sirius and Sirius B wasn't a hoax as such; it was bad practice by Griaule. All indications are that he 'contaminated' his evidence by describing Sirius B to the Dogon. Check out this ATS Thread. Anthropologist, Walter Van Beek, studied the Dogon for over a decade. His studies found no mention of Sirius B in their culture, indeed the Dogon even said that they only heard of it through Griaule. Until Van Beek's evidence was published in the early 90s, the Dogon story was seen by many as the best evidence for alien visitation. Carl Sagan said that the Dogon couldn't have knowledge of Sirius B without contact with an advanced technological civilization. I wonder if he suspected Griaule?


...though they do speak about sigu tolo they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule'
BBC Link




Van Beek also found that the Dogon term for Sirius (the brightest star in the sky) wasn't called 'sigu tolo' but 'dana tolo. That the Dogon were aware of Sirius is nothing unusual, every culture has a some reference to to Sirius as this ATS thread discusses.

The wholesale mythology was created by Robert Temple's book The Sirius Mystery.

In 1965, Robert Temple was handed the Griaule and Dieterlen study by his mentor, Arthur M Young. A year later, Temple became the Secretary of Young's Foundation for the Study Of Consciousness. A year after that, Temple began work on the thesis that would become The Sirius Mystery - a thesis he would have to submit to Young for evaluation.

Arthur Young was a believer in a group of channelled entities called 'The Council of Nine'. These entities claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt, something that Young was well aware of having been present at the first 'meeting' of the council, an event made possible by Andrija Puharich.


You'll never guess where the 'The Council of Nine' came from
A certain bright star? Maybe? Temple's research has been noted for misinterpreting evidence. Also, for a man who's life work is based on the Dogon and Sirius, he's somehow overlooked Van Beek's field study report and makes no mention of it in recent books. There are well presented explanations at bad archaeology, a balanced account here at the BBC and from The Fortean Times.

It seems that Griaule's enthusiasm for astronomy (he carried star maps on his field studies) influenced the Dogon's accounts of their mythology and culture. Robert Temple used the results to fit his ideas and propagate them as the Sirius Mystery. As you noted above, most of the information about the Dogon repeats the ideas of Temple. His misinterpreted and unchanged interpretation has developed a sheen of validity. It has become 'true' by concensus




I don't understand how the sumerians, no matter how good of observers they were could correctly identify all the planets with no evidence of telescopes. Little less correctly predicting their color.


Five heavenly bodies are visible with the naked eye and they had the astronomer's wet dream of zero light pollution. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Other than the work of Sitchin, the Sumerian's have words for five planets and there isn't any evidence that they knew of any more.


Mercury: Ubu-idim-gud-ud,Gud-ud,Gu-ad,Gu-Utu, Nebo
Venus: Nindaranna,Ninsianna,Dibalt,Dilbad,Dilipat,Ishtar
Mars: Salbatai,Salbatana,Sanumma,Nergal
Jupiter: Udaltar,Mul-Babbar,Sagnae-gar,Nibiru-Marduk,Marduk
Saturn: Genna,Sagus,Uduidim,Ninib

Add the above FIVE "wanderers" to the sun and moon which also traced their own unique paths across the sky, and you get a total of SEVEN major heavenly objects. The ancients imagined that these SEVEN were special gods overseeing the flat earth below. For instance, the Babylonians referred to the "watchful eye" of Shamash, the sun, who notes all things. And a prayer to Mars (Nergal) states, "With Sin (the Moon) in Heaven thou perceivest all things." Compare the Hebrew notion that "these SEVEN [lights] are the eyes of the Lord which range to and fro throughout the earth" (Zechariah 4:10).
Source with references

A lot of people seem to avoid opposing analyses of Sumerian myth. Sitchin is a lone voice and has attracted unanimous criticism from academics for his misinterpretation of Sumerian tablets. Here's a general outline of some of his errors.




The Sumerians were as intelligent as we are now. They observed and studied their environment just like we do. They were dynamic and shaped that environment for their own benefit. Wheels, bricks, astronomy, commerce, they were typical humans. Their technological advances were achieved on their own terms and without help from anything more than the cultures preceding them. Evidence



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by Learhoag
C'mon, man, get your brain in gear! Alien genetic engineering? You gotta be kidding! First, provide evidence for aliens in the present since they are a modern phenomenom. No hearsay, please. Our past is explained by history and there is nothing in history that explains any of your fantastic yarn.

What underwater "pyramids"? I've heard of underwater "structures" that have ot yet been proven one way or another and disabuse yourself from believing in ley lines, they are constructed from mind stuff! Geez!


wooow pretty aggressive post for your first time posting on AST.

lil bit of an overreaction?

thou doth protest too much ... methinks....



-



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


It should be noted that the only klerksdorpt spheres you'll find pictures of... are the ones that fit the profile. They range in shape and size, from being flattened, to being joined. They are formed from iron pyrite.

As for the Bagdhad batteries, the copper cylinder was covered in bitumen. That would have caused it to be insulated, the ones used to create a charge had this removed from the redesign.



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Just because I have similar beliefs does not mean I have the exact same beliefs as Sitchin, he takes an idea and elaborates beyond what is reasonable. I simply believe that since it took 3 billion years to create animals, I think that us developing our cognitive capabilities over at most 2 million years is too fast and that we would of needed help in achieving what we have done.

Edit: Please if someone disputes me on this do not say anything as simple as our ancestors took mushrooms and that exponentially influenced our evolution.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by DJones]



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 05:41 AM
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The mystery of the buried pyramid is that according to geologists, the pyramid would have to be 10-12 thousand years old to be in that position. Same thing with the sphinx, why is there heavy water erosion evidence on a monument in the middle of the desert?


HansLune, Harte or Byrd(ATS guys) are the ones to address this but I'll have a go


To show why the buried pyramid can't be 10-12, 000 years old it's useful to know a little about the progression from early Egyptian tombs (mastaba) into pyramids. Again, like the Sumerians, it's about humans affecting change on the environment and demonstrating great ingenuity.


Egyptologist use the Arabic word 'mastaba', meaning 'bench', for the massive rectangular structures found above many tombs in Saqqara, Gizeh and other places. They often have rooms for offerings inside which are decorated with reliefs or paintings. The earliest mastabas are found at Tarkhan, Saqqara and Gizeh. They are structures decorated with a palace facade. They did not have any entrance.
University College London

These mastabas evolved in size and complexity until Imhotep designed the first known step pyramid complex, Djoser. Djoser was built circa 2800 BC.



A major source of Egyptian history are the 'King Lists'. These are chronologies of the rulers written at the time. The most famous is the Manetho List that charted 30 Dynasties of Egyptian rulers going back to around 3100BC. The names and dates on the King List are supported by several other Lists.

I'm trying to show that the Egyptians own recorded history doesn't allow for the possibility of a 10-12000 year old pyramid. The archaeological progression can be charted from the mastabas, through to Djoser and then Cheops/ Great Pyramid.

A 'buried' pyramid was uncovered last year and has been provisionally dated to 2400BC. Until further information is forthcoming, it's been attributed to the King Menkauhor.


Long since reduced to its foundations, the structure was previously known as Number 29 or the "Headless Pyramid." It was mentioned in the mid-19th century by German archaeologist Karl Richard Lepsius. Then it disappeared in the sands of Saqqara, a sprawling royal burial complex near current-day Cairo.
National Geographic

Another 'buried' pyramid is that of the Pharaoh Sekhemkhet. This has been dated to his reign of about 2649 until 2643 BC. Interestingly, there's some confusion as to whether he was Djoser (as mentioned above). Source

The subject of water erosion and the Sphinx is interesting. Robert Schoch originally introduced the idea that the Sphinx was much earlier due to water erosion on the limestone bedrock of the body. He suggested a possible date of 7-5000 BC. He's a decent guy and in no way a hoaxer. He uses evidence to come to his conclusions. However, there is widespread opposition to his theory on several levels.

Rather than *water* erosion, it's thought that weather erosion can account for the same characteristics found on the Sphynx. The Giza Plateau is subject to great heat during the day and then cold at night and Saharan winds. The limestone is also varied in hardness. The softer limestone is crumbly and flakes off under the vagaries of the weather. As condensation forms in fractures and freezes it causes flakes to fall off. Zahi Hawass explains it better than me here.




Archaeologists are largely in agreement regarding the age of the Sphinx and don't support Schoch's assertion. As I've tried to demonstrate, the age of Egyptian culture isn't arbitrary or based on a refusal to 'think out the box.' It's based on geological and archaeological evidence. The archaeological evidence is supported by primary historical sources like the 'King Lists' and hieroglyphs. Their own historical records are reflected in the accounts of neighboring civilizations.

A lack of evidence can also be used to support a theory. The assertion of pyramids or the Sphinx predating Egyptian culture isn't supported by any evidence at all. There's no literature, no pottery, no signs of an early civilization or burials to indicate a missing culture.

Egypt has fascinated people for centuries and will always give birth to mysteries both real and imaginary. As long as people speculate about the Ancient Egyptians there'll be controversy. Although the evidence I've posted is widely accepted, I've no doubt that it's all open to challenge


Some *alternative* ideas:
Aliens Built the Pyramids!!!
Egypt UFO connection
Hancock and Bauval's 'Egypt is linked to space' theory



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 06:01 AM
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Originally posted by DJones
reply to post by Kandinsky
 


Just because I have similar beliefs does not mean I have the exact same beliefs as Sitchin, he takes an idea and elaborates beyond what is reasonable. I simply believe that since it took 3 billion years to create animals, I think that us developing our cognitive capabilities over at most 2 million years is too fast and that we would of needed help in achieving what we have done.

Edit: Please if someone disputes me on this do not say anything as simple as our ancestors took mushrooms and that exponentially influenced our evolution.

[edit on 15-2-2009 by DJones]


I've got a similar interest. I'd recommend reading this article about the FOXP2 gene.


Neanderthals, an archaic human species that dominated Europe until the arrival of modern humans about 45,000 years ago, possessed a critical gene known to underlie speech, according to DNA evidence retrieved from two individuals excavated from El Sidron, a cave in northern Spain. The evidence stems from analysis of a gene called FOXP2 which is associated with language.

The human version of the gene differs at two critical points from the chimpanzee version, suggesting that these two changes have something to do with the fact that people can speak and chimps cannot.
Source

The article touches upon Man's development and the importance of speech in getting where we are now. Those crazy guys in white coats decided to add the FOXP2 gene to a mouse population
Didn't work out very well for the mice!



posted on Feb, 15 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Well you obviously ask very similar questions as myself, never seen someone even attempt to answer most of those questions, well done.

Not completely sold just because, science can be biased and especially in terms of history, the majority of people go in with preconceived notions of what to expect and that can make all the difference in the world.

I'm taking accounting so the gene thing is a bit over my head but from what I could gather I have some questions. The article really only explained our neurological evolution but seemed to completely disregard our physical evolution. Essentially if 350 000 years ago we mutated so that were vocal, were our vocal cords already fully capable of making all the frequencies that we are now but our minds were to limited to make sense of it. I'll assume no because that goes against what I know of evolution, why evolve your vocal cords if you don't know how to use them.

So that leaves that we mutated the understanding and over the next 300 000 years our bodies evolved to fully use this ability. With that reasoning, it puts into question how special consciousness really is. That is because with this reasoning it starts with a random mutation to a relatively unspectacular species and within 300 000 years they would be comparable to us.

Again I just don't like the timeline. This would however make the idea of aliens being million and millions of years more advanced than us much more likely. Just speculating about things I don't fully understand so who knows.

I just ordered Forbidden archaeology and Forbidden Religion so I'm hoping they touch on some of these topics.



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