Entire Building on Fire Does Not Collapse-Beijing

Originally posted by jfj123

When were the posts cut? What is the time frame for this photo?

They were witnessed by Kevin McPadden, who was there on 9/11.

McPadden reveals how he witnessed up close steel beams from the twin towers that had been symmetrically cut at perfect angles, a clear sign that cutter charges were used. McPadden said officials were acting very suspiciously and subsequently prevented people from getting near the beams.

Source

Wait, are you implying they set up thermate charges after it collapsed? You can't be serious. Weren't the believers of the official story claiming there was no evidence of thermate? There is your evidence and now, you seem to be implying it was applied after it fell down? I really hope not.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by adam_zapple

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by tide88
Well this building didnt collapse so 911 was obviously a conspiracy. Look at all the stars and flags. It is quite funny that people are comparing this building and WTC7 like they are the same thing yet no one even knows how the manderin hotel was constucted.

This thread is just trying to show people what usually happens when steel skyscrapers catch fire.

Except that the building in question was a reinforced concrete structure, not a steel-framed building like WTC7.

Doesn't change the fact that nothing like those three building collapses has ever been witnessed on any other day in history.

Is that supposed to mean that it couldn't happen?

Originally posted by Kratos1220
Source

Wait, are you implying they set up thermate charges after it collapsed? You can't be serious. Weren't the believers of the official story claiming there was no evidence of thermate? There is your evidence and now, you seem to be implying it was applied after it fell down? I really hope not.

The beams you're referring to were cut by rescue workers after the collapses...and they were cut by torches, not by thermite.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
Or we could point out the fact that it was 34 stories tall and was not complete.

As if it would have collapsed if it were actually fully constructed, as opposed to being only partially constructed.

How many stories a building is has nothing to do with how it would collapse. The taller a building is, the more redundancy is built into it to accommodate the extra loading.

Originally posted by Kratos1220

Wait, are you implying they set up thermate charges after it collapsed? You can't be serious.

Based on that photo, I have no idea when they were cut. They could have been cut as part of final demo long after 9/11.

site with good pics of blaze

www.sacbee.com...

Originally posted by adam_zapple

Originally posted by Kratos1220
Source

Wait, are you implying they set up thermate charges after it collapsed? You can't be serious. Weren't the believers of the official story claiming there was no evidence of thermate? There is your evidence and now, you seem to be implying it was applied after it fell down? I really hope not.

The beams you're referring to were cut by rescue workers after the collapses...and they were cut by torches, not by thermite.

Exactly !
Good post !
This is typical of the "truthers". They don't look into anything but only use their very limited knowledge of how things should be and we get false and/or misleading statements.

Thanks for correcting kratos1220's mistake.

Originally posted by jfj123
OK so far in the video, all I'm hearing about secondary explosions. Is that so surprising in a burning building? Doesn't it seem likely that there are a lot of flammable items in a building that size that when heated, might explode?

Wow, you're in MASSIVE denial to delude yourself into thinking that these secondary explosions (from the WTC sub-levels -- some of which were heard BEFORE the planes hit) can be explained as exploding flammable items. That's absolutely ridiculous. Why are the sub-levels exploding when the fire is 80 stories away and NOTHING has been heated?



It's amazing what you're able to justify. Like I said, there's no amount of evidence -- even a direct mass confession by the PNAC neocons -- that would convince you.

Whatever helps you sleep better...

Originally posted by adam_zapple
The beams you're referring to were cut by rescue workers after the collapses...and they were cut by torches, not by thermite.

That's quite the convincing evidence!

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by adam_zapple
The beams you're referring to were cut by rescue workers after the collapses...and they were cut by torches, not by thermite.

That's quite the convincing evidence!

Indeed. The burden of proof is now on you, if you're going to claim that it was cut by something other than the worker/torch shown in the photo.

Originally posted by adam_zapple

The beams you're referring to were cut by rescue workers after the collapses...and they were cut by torches, not by thermite.

There are some problems with that. There are no eyewitnesses who saw steel workers cutting steel beams after the collapse nor were there (that I've seen) any evidence of workers getting the order to cut down steel beams. The cut is exactly how they would do it in a controlled demolition to relieve the strength of the supporting columns. It shows the classic "dripping" from thermate melting. There are also piles of rubble everywhere, so why would metal smiths be hacking at undamaged beams to rescue people? What purpose would they have of doing that at this time?

Also to my knowledge, slag from a blow torch does not drip like shown in that image and shouldn't leave slag on the outside of the cut like shown in the picture. If a torch was used, it shouldn't look like that. Combine this with evidence in other threads I've read about there being molten steel in the rubble for weeks after 9/11 and it points to thermate yet again.

Originally posted byjfj123

Exactly !
Good post !
This is typical of the "truthers". They don't look into anything but only use their very limited knowledge of how things should be and we get false and/or misleading statements.

Thanks for correcting kratos1220's mistake.

Funny how you accuse me of that, yet you believe the first thing someone says that goes with your opinion without looking into anything. You almost sound relieved that someone offered up an explanation since you apparently couldn't.

[edit on 11-2-2009 by Kratos1220]

reply to post by Griff


Different structure, Griff. I thought that you were some sort of structural engineer and would understand the difference.

reply to post by adam_zapple

How much proof do you need? How much truth can a professional pseudoskeptic handle? Wouldn't this be like exposing a vampire to daylight?

Aren't you the one who keeps claiming that FDNY firefighters support the official story?

Transcribed Verbatim of The Oral Histories of September 11, 2001, Reveals Sequenced WTC Explosions
Sep 27, 2007

Firemen Describe Pre-Collapse WTC Explosions

Eyewitness accounts....in the voices of 503, firefighters, paramedics, office workers, proffesional reporters, emergency medical technicians recorded at the end of 2001, were made public on August 12, 2005 after a lengthly court battle.

"It was like a professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear 'pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.' " - NYFD Paramedic Daniel Rivera

"I was taking firefighters up in the elevator to the 24th floor to get in position to evacuate workers. On the last trip up a bomb went off. We think there were bombs set in the building." - NYFD Firefighter Louie Cacchioli

"There was just an explosion in the south tower. It seemed like on television when they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all this explosions." - NYFD Firefighter Richard Banaciski

"It actually gave at a lower, not the floor where the plane hit.... We originally had thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down." - NYFD Firefighter Edward Cachia

Sue Keane, an officer in the New Jersey Fire Department who was previously a sergeant in the U.S. Army, said in her account of the onset of the collapse of the south tower: "It sounded like bombs going off. That's when the explosions happened... I knew something was going to happen... It started to get dark, then all of a sudden there was this massive explosion. "Then, discussing her experiences during the collapse of the north tower, she said: "There was another explosion. That sent me and the two firefighters down the stairs... I can't tell you how many times I got banged around. Each one of this explosions picked me up and threw me... There was another explosion, and I got thrown with two firefighters out onto the street."

Engineer Mike Pecoraro, who was working in the sixth sub-basebent of the towers, said that after an explosion he and a co-worker went up to the C level, where there was a small machine shop. "There was nothing but rubble," said Pecoraro. " We're talking about a 50 ton hyraulic press-- gone!" then on B level. they found that a steel-and concrete fire door, which weighed about 300 pounds, was wrinkle up "like a piece of aluminum foil." having seen similar things after the terrorist attack in 1993, Pecoraro was convinced that a bomb had gone off.

Wall Street Journal reporter John Bussey, describing his observation of the collapse of the south tower from the ninth floor of the WSJ office building, said: "I... looked up out of the office window to see what seemed like perfectly synchronized explosions coming from each floor... one after the other, from top to buttom, with a fraction of a second between, the floors blew to pieces."

Another wall Street Journal reporter said that after seeing what appeared to be "individual floors, one after the other exploding outward," he thought: "My God, they're going to bring the building down." And they, whoever they are. HAD SET CHARGES... I saw the explosions." - Suzanne Huffman author of Woman Journalist at Ground Zero (page 19)

A similar perception was reported by Beth Fertig of WNYC Radio, who said: "It just descended like a timed explosion -- like when they are deliberately bringing a building down... It was coming down so perfectly that in one part of my brain I was thinking, "They got everyone out, and they're bringing the building down because they have to."

Multiple explosions were also reported by Tereza Veliz. who worked for a software development company in the north tower. She was on the 47th floor, she reported, when suddenly " the whole building shook... [Shortly thereafter] the building shook again, this time even more violently." While Veliz was making her way downstairs and outside: "there were explosions going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing buttons... there was another explosion, and another. I didn't know where to run."

reply to post by Kratos1220

Kratos,
You said: "The cut is exactly how they would do it in a controlled demolition to relieve the strength of the supporting columns. It shows the classic "dripping" from thermate melting. There are also piles of rubble everywhere, so why would metal smiths be hacking at undamaged beams to rescue people? What purpose would they have of doing that at this time?"
Thermite is a really poor way to demolish a building. It cannot be timed and collapse cannot be controlled. The cut you speak of was NOT done with thermite. Thermite is really not meant for verticals as it would have to be held in place while it melted the steel. The steel would have been melted over a much larger area and the cut would not have been as defined. "Classic dripping," an imaginative phrase, is from a torch, not thermite. There also would have been large, shapeless masses of bulk metal had thermite been used.
In this case they were not necessarily trying to rescue people but more likely trying to remove debris.
There is no evidence of thermite.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
Originally posted by jfj123
OK so far in the video, all I'm hearing about secondary explosions. Is that so surprising in a burning building? Doesn't it seem likely that there are a lot of flammable items in a building that size that when heated, might explode?

Wow, you're in MASSIVE denial to delude yourself into thinking that these secondary explosions (from the WTC sub-levels -- some of which were heard BEFORE the planes hit)
From this video, how can you tell exactly where the explosions are coming from?
Please show me in this video, the explosions that came before the planes hit.

It's amazing what you're able to justify. Like I said, there's no amount of evidence -- even a direct mass confession by the PNAC neocons -- that would convince you.

Whatever helps you sleep better...

What amazes me is that you're able to just make up facts and then get mad at others who won't go along with your imagined facts

I guess whatever helps you sleep better at night

reply to post by GoldenFleece

Fleece,
What things sounded like to people in a panic and what they actually were are two different things. This is heresay and not evidence of anything.

Evidence of demolition would be explosive residue, expended caps, timers, blasting machines, etc.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by adam_zapple

 

How much proof do you need? How much truth can a professional pseudoskeptic handle? Wouldn't this be like exposing a vampire to daylight?

Aren't you the one who keeps claiming that FDNY firefighters support the official story?

You posted a lot of quotes from people who said:

"it seemed like" or
"it sounded like" or
"we thought it was"

Can you name one FDNY firefighter who believes that ANY of the 3 buildings were CD?

Originally posted by Kratos1220

Originally posted by adam_zapple

The beams you're referring to were cut by rescue workers after the collapses...and they were cut by torches, not by thermite.

There are some problems with that. There are no eyewitnesses who saw steel workers cutting steel beams after the collapse

1. There were no eye witnesses that saw the people supposedly rig the buildings before the collapse.
2. Of course steel beams were cut after the collapse as part of demolition cleanup. Come on are you saying they didn't cut any steel for hauling?

The cut is exactly how they would do it in a controlled demolition to relieve the strength of the supporting columns.

Please do show an example.

Thanks for correcting kratos1220's mistake.

Funny how you accuse me of that, yet you believe the first thing someone says that goes with your opinion without looking into anything. You almost sound relieved that someone offered up an explanation since you apparently couldn't.

Actually I was looking for the pic and info to post myself as I remember discussing this in another thread but he was faster on the draw.

Again, when was that picture taken with the cut beam? Do you know?

Originally posted by adam_zapple
Can you name one FDNY firefighter who believes that ANY of the 3 buildings were CD?

Are you kidding? There are many. I'll bet they're in the majority, but most are afraid to speak out because of a federal gag order and fear of losing their jobs.

Here's the experience of one firefighter who tried to relate his experiences to the 9/11 Commission (NO firefighter testimony appeared in the final report!)

Firefighter Louie Cacchioli was called to testify privately [before the 9/11 Commission], but walked out on several members of the committee before they finished, feeling like he was being interrogated and cross-examined rather than simply allowed to tell the truth about what occurred in the north tower on 9/11. "My story was never mentioned in the final report and I felt like I was being put on trial in a court room," said Cacchioli. "I finally walked out. They were trying to twist my words and make the story fit only what they wanted to hear. All I wanted to do was tell the truth and when they wouldn't let me do that, I walked out. ... It was a disgrace to everyone, the victims and the family members who lost loved ones. I don't agree with the 9/11 Commission. The whole experience was terrible."

Before beginning this article, I met Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman and former Auxiliary Police Officer, Paul Isaac Jr. at the World Trade Center Memorial. Paul, along with many other firemen, is very upset about the obvious cover-up and he is on a crusade for answers and justice. He was stationed at Engine 10, across the street from the World Trade Center in 1998 and 99; Engine 10 was entirely wiped out in the destruction of the towers. He explained to me that, "many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they're afraid for their jobs to admit it because the 'higher-ups' forbid discussion of this fact." Paul further elaborated that former CIA director Robert Woolsey, as the Fire Department's Anti-terrorism Consultant, is sending a gag order down the ranks. "There were definitely bombs in those buildings," he told me. He explained to me that, if the building had "pancaked" as it's been called, the falling floors would have met great resistance from the steel support columns, which would have sent debris flying outward into the surrounding blocks. I asked him about the trusses, and quoted the history channel's "don't trust a truss" explanation for the collapses. He responded in disbelief, and told me, "You could never build a truss building that high. A slight wind would knock it over! Those buildings were supported by reinforced steel. Building don't just implode like that; this was a demolition."

Just after the disaster, Firefighter Louie Cacchioli said, "We think there were bombs set in the building." Notice he said "we". At 9:04, just after flight 175 collided with the South Tower, a huge explosion shot 550 feet into the air from the U.S. Customs House known as WTC 6. A huge crater scars the ground where this building once stood. Something blew up WTC 6 - it wasn't a plane; it must have been a bomb of some sort.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by adam_zapple
Can you name one FDNY firefighter who believes that ANY of the 3 buildings were CD?

Are you kidding? There are many. I'll bet they're in the majority,

There isn't a single quote on that page from any firefighter who believes that any of those 3 buildings were brought down by controlled demolition.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
but most are afraid to speak out because of a federal gag order and fear of losing their jobs.

Are you being serious? Hundreds of firefighters were killed that day, and you think that other firefighters are knowingly participating in the cover up of the murder of their brothers & friends because they're afraid to lose their jobs?