Video - Israeli Defence Forces shoot at Palestinian farmers

Originally posted by stevegmu
Probably another Pallywood production. I'd bet anything they were hiding rockets for Hamas in the fields and launchers under the parsley in the cart.

You left your "smiley" face off your post. You were joking right....

Originally posted by MR1159

Originally posted by stevegmu
Probably another Pallywood production. I'd bet anything they were hiding rockets for Hamas in the fields and launchers under the parsley in the cart.

You left your "smiley" face off your post. You were joking right....

Have you ever seen Pallywood vids? They stage 'Israeli' attacks, film, edit, and post them as actual Israeli attacks.

Originally posted by masonwatcher

What of it, Gaza is under a blockade so everything is smuggled to bypass the zionist wall and trigger happy occupation forces. What is Hamas going to do with all that money if it meant for them? Sit on it. Common sense would dictate, if your allegation had some merit, that cash would be smuggled out and end up in Swiss and Israeli banks like New York Banking cleptocrats like Madoff. The money is for wages and labour.

"The Gazan people might wake up and realize their misery is jut cynically manipulated as a source of income by handful of politicos on the take from Iran, who conveniently live in comfortable homes in Damascus and elsewhere."

Spread the faults far and wide, eh? Actually the source of Palestinian misery is occupation, Israeli land theft, arbitrary killings, ghettoisation, disappearances, bombardments and slanderous demonisation.

The video shows everyone with their own eyes what the Israelis do to civilians.

There were no human shields, no Hamas rocket teams, no smuggling, no tunnels, no bringing up parsley to hate Israelis. There were just pathological Israelis shooting at farmers and peace monitors.

[edit on 042828p://pm2847 by masonwatcher]

You weren't there, you only know what is reported by the media, which when it suits your purpose you reject.

Israelis have done terrible things in reaction to the constant attempts by Arabs in the region to annihilate them. Arabs have done terrible things to Jews, and their fellow Muslims. People have unreasonable wars and battles in which atrocities happen. Some are exaggerated or reported incorrectly by the media, who don't know or care about the context.

You report everything and everything Israelis do without balance, dismissing transgressions on the other side that contribute to the situation.

You do this at a rate of 20 articulated posts a day on average.

I have a life and career, and lack the luxury time to show the other side of the picture of an Israel besieged by for no other reason other than hatred.

Because I don't transmit this message day and night does not mean it doesn't occur.

There's a British guy named Rowan Berkeley who in his own name or under various aliases does a similar day and night slanted reporting on Israel in public forums, employing nuanced euphemistic commentary to spread his hatred agenda.

Ever hear of him?


MF

you werent there either my freind , and had 1 of those bullets hit that girl in the head , you would say it was her fault for getting her head in the way of the bullet.

Originally posted by branty
you werent there either my freind , and had 1 of those bullets hit that girl in the head , you would say it was her fault for getting her head in the way of the bullet.

Did not claim I was there, and said I don't know how accurate reports are or their context. There have been staged or improperly reported killings before. You seem to know what is accurately reported and what is not, so asked if you were there.

And again, I see you response as an attempt to dramatize your concerned outrage while deflecting from issues.

I can do a mean histrionic anguished routine describing the suffering of some Israeli being blown up - but do not consider it appropriate in political discussion.

I asked a couple questions, that go unanswered. Just curious, why 150 posts a week, researched with up to the minute reporting, tremendously in depth knowledge of Israel - who you seem to dislike so intensely.

Everything written eloquently but consistently trying to portray Israel in a malign light. You're right to despise Israel, but if this is the case. why are you more knowledgeable of their activities than anyone I've ever seen posting on a board like this.

And again, as he has a similar knowledge base, style, approach, and incessance, I wondered if you have heard of the notorious Rowan Berkeley.


Mike F

reply to post by mmiichael


Taking on board what you have said i thought that i would present some statistics relating to both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

1. Homes demolished since 1967-
Israel = 0, Palestinian = 18,147

2. Number of children killed Sept. 2000 - 2008 approx.
Israel = 123, Palestinian = 2,000

3. Number of people killed Sept. 2000 - 2008 approx.
Israel = 1,000, Palestinian = 6,000

4. Number of people injured since Sept 2000 approx.
Israel = 9,000 Palestinian = 39,000

5. Number of Settlements on others land
Israel = 223 Palestinian = 0

Source of Information- www.ifamericansknew.org...

Unfortunately, the stats and facts often appear 1 sided. This is because they are 1 sided.

reply to post by mmiichael

There's a British guy named Rowan Berkeley who in his own name or under various aliases does a similar day and night slanted reporting on Israel in public forums, employing nuanced euphemistic commentary to spread his hatred agenda.

I just did a google search of Rowan Berkeley and he seems to be in no fear of publicising his identity. He appears to be “right-on” hippy type human rights activists. More interestingly, his commentary is accompanied by a deluge of allegation of being a nazi and white supremacist from the pro-Israeli brigade. Yet the oddest thing is that he vocalises the struggle of a dark skinned people in the face of murderous Zionist conflict.

Since his name seems to be common currency to the likes of pro-Israeli types, I surmise that he may be in danger of the more fanatical of your kind. Of course this does not mean that a Kidon hit squad would be dispatched but rather a carefully crafted slander campaign would mostly likely be orchestrated with a bit of vandalism and baiting. This is the popular method of local pro-Israeli types in silencing critics of Israel.

As for your association of this chap to me, thank you very much. I have no problems with being drawn in comparison to people of conscience. Then you go on to say that due to your commitment to life and career, you are unable to balance my commentary on these boards. You know what is most interesting about this, there are no Palestinian voices here but there is an abundance of pro-Israeli and quite possibly Israeli dual passport holders issuing their own anti-Palestinian and anti-Islam narrative. You see this kind of attitude and casual acceptance of your kind of discourse by an audience is the default and neutral position as far as you anti-Israeli types are concerned. Anything that runs against the grain of conventional thought and opinions as you see it, implies a conspiracy by racists and religious fanatics when the truth it is Zionism that is racist and fanatical as we recently saw with the siege of Gaza and the Palestinians struggling to breath the air they are entitled to.

Rowan Berkeley and a few others maintain non-stop online assaults at Israel, those they label ans Zionists, and Jews in general. Backed with an incredible knowledge of Israeli affairs and history, they isolate reported information, excluding contexts like reaction to previous transgressions, and push the view that Israel is totally at fault with no possible justification in any and all it's efforts to quell attacks and planning against their state and it's people.

The methodology is insidious. The presentation of supposed facts is blended in with speculation, distortions of data, misrepresentations, etc. What is cumulatively distressing is not that someone has a negative take on Israel, but how they seem to spend their entire waking hours in the cause of pushing their views online.

To the uninformed the impression given is that Israel is an national entity that functions solely to cause grief to other Middle East residents and the world by inference. Anyone knowledgeable of world affairs knows the situation is complex, and that Israel is not the sole transgressor.

Despite provocations I don't enter into political discussions with people whose cases are made by throwing anecdotal data around rather than examining complex issues. It is easy enough to find dozens of examples of Hamas, PLO, Hezbollah, and other Muslim perfidy and put a malign spin on it in an attempt to portray all Arabs as vicious killers. I don't hate Muslims and feel it would be sick to try to convince people that they are terrible people.

But there are people out there in the cyber world who feel driven to constantly portray Israel as evil, and I ask what drives them to make a virtual career of it.


Mike F

Mike F , you say their are dozens of examples of Hamas or Palestine readily available to show the Isreali pain. Please my freind , link the vids showing Isreali's being terrorized at gunpoint , or babies burned by phospheros bombs , or total destruction of entire neighorhood's. Look forward to my enlightenment.

reply to post by mmiichael

Despite provocations I don't enter into political discussions with people whose cases are made by throwing anecdotal data around rather than examining complex issues. It is easy enough to find dozens of examples of Hamas, PLO, Hezbollah, and other Muslim perfidy and put a malign spin on it in an attempt to portray all Arabs as vicious killers. I don't hate Muslims and feel it would be sick to try to convince people that they are terrible people.

But this is what zionists do all the time and at all levels in society from Megaphone coordinated school boy activists to enormous lobby groups like AIPAC and propaganda distribution orgs like MEMRI and the Site.org.

What about the Clarion Fund, the front for the zionist Aish Ha Torah, a Mossad sponsored yeshiva? They describe themselves as a charity that provides national security through education and their charitable status is as a 501(c)(3) organization.

clarionfund.org...

Well these lovely people produced a hate speech anti-Islam video and distributed it as newspaper inserts for over 20 million household in the Midwest only a few months ago.

www.nowpublic.com...

There are other activities your co-zionist comrades got involved in globally. You do remember Fleming Rose and those cartoons he was peddling in Canada and Denmark? There is more but I will not bore you with it; you can check the links at your leisure.

The reason I mention these things is that you zionists stir people's passions and xenophobia but when it blows back, you make obnoxious allegations. No one stirs the pot like Israel, you merely have to expose its activities to damn it such as the recent siege of Gaza. The Gaza attacks are still ongong but not reported any more when Israel unilaterally declared a doublespeak ceasefire. The blockade too is still ongoing.


[edit on 112828p://am2855 by masonwatcher]

Originally posted by masonwatcher

this is what zionists do all the time and at all levels in society from Megaphone coordinated school boy activists to enormous lobby groups like AIPAC and propaganda distribution orgs like MEMRI and the Site.org.

What about the Clarion Fund, the front for the zionist Aish Ha Torah, a Mossad sponsored yeshiva? They describe themselves as a charity that provides national security through education and their charitable status is as a 501(c)(3) organization.

Thanks for another cherry picked anecdote to further your stereotyping of what you label as zionists. You are an expert on this stuff. You obviously research day and night so for selected tid bits to post. Good luck.

I could characterize people like yourself, but would be going to a level of discussion I'd rather not visit.

your inevitable response is predictable, I hope you don't wear down the Z on your keyboard.


MF

reply to post by mmiichael

Thanks for another cherry picked anecdote to further your stereotyping of what you label as zionists. You are an expert on this stuff. You obviously research day and night so for selected tid bits to post. Good luck. I could characterize people like yourself, but would be going to a level of discussion I'd rather not visit. MF

People like me don't steal land, we don't believe in a God given right to rob a nation of the freedom, do not conduct genocidal policies or have 'demonstrations' in favour of the siege of walled cities.

Zionist has no acceptable virtues just like any extremist supremacist philosophy.

Oh, by the way I don't research material, I have an ability to remember just everything I read. Don't imagine that there are basement computer banks manned by volunteers campaigning to bad mouth Israel. Anti zionists don't operate like Hasbara, Megaphone, JDL and some of the colourful yeshivas we got in Golders Green in London.

What does MF stand for, I hope it's not rude?

Originally posted by masonwatcher

People like me don't steal land, we don't believe in a God given right to rob a nation of the freedom, do not conduct genocidal policies or have 'demonstrations' in favour of the siege of walled cities.

Zionist has no acceptable virtues just like any extremist supremacist philosophy.

Oh, by the way I don't research material, I have an ability to remember just everything I read. Don't imagine that there are basement computer banks manned by volunteers campaigning to bad mouth Israel. Anti zionists don't operate like Hasbara, Megaphone, JDL and some of the colourful yeshivas we got in Golders Green in London.

What does MF stand for, I hope it's not rude?

I sign Mike F or MF.

Someone using the name Nekama posted elsewhere in response to the accusations made against Israel.


MF

----

1. Are you aware that the Disputed Territories never belonged to the “Palestinians” and only came into Israeli possession as a result of the 1967 six day war in which Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all massed forces at Israel’s border in order to “push the Jews into the sea”. The Arabs lost and Israel took control of the land. Do you agree that if the Koran-imals don’t want to lose territory to Israel, then they shouldn’t start wars? Do you agree that there is justice that Israel, who as far back as 1948 has always sought peace with her far larger neighbors, should live in prosperity - making the desert bloom - while the residents of 19 adjacent Arab countries who are blessed with far more land as well as oil wealth live in their own feces?

2. Did you know that the “Palestinians” could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years before Mohammed ever had a wet dream about virgins? The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the infant Israeli nation. The Arabs lost and have been whining about it ever since. Do you agree this is like a murderer who kills his parents and asks for special treatment since he is now an orphan?

3. Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians? How about to other Arabs? Wouldn’t you just LOVE to be a citizen of Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, or Syria?

4. Since as many Jews (approximately 850,000) were kicked out of Arab countries as were Arabs who left present day Israel (despite being literally begged to stay), why should Arabs be permitted to return to Israel if Jews aren’t allowed to set foot in Arab countries? Can you explain why Arabs can worship freely in Israel but Jews would certainly be hung from street lamps after having their intestines devoured by an Arab mob if they so much as entered an Arab country?

5. Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah? How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth? Why aren’t these funds distributed for humanitarian use?

6. Did you know that the Arabs in the disputed territories (conquered by Israel in the 1967 war which was started by Arabs) and who are not Israelis already have two countries right now? And that they are called Egypt and Jordan?

7. If your complaint is about the security fence which Israel is finally building in the Disputed Territories, are you aware that it is built solely to keep the “brave” Arab terrorists out so that they can no longer self detonate on busses, in dining halls or pizzerias and kill Jewish grandmothers and schoolchildren? Why are the Arabs so brave when they target unarmed civilians but even when they outnumber their opponents they get their sandy asses kicked all the way to Mecca when they are faced with Jewish soldiers? Why do Arab soldiers make the French look like super heroes?

8. Please explain why you are so concerned about Arabs, who possess 99% of the land in this region and are in control of the world’s greatest natural resource, which literally flows out of the ground? Can’t their brother muslims offer some of the surplus land and nature’s riches to the “Palestinians”? Or is it true that Arabs are willing to die right down to the last “Palestinian”?

9. Why do you not exhibit the same level of concern for say, people in Saudi Arabia who are beheaded, subject to amputation, stoning, honor killing etc.? What about women who are denied any semblance of basic civil rights, including the right not to be treated as property for the entertainment and abuse of her father, brothers, or husbands? What about the Muslims in Sudan and Egypt who are still enslaved, or the women there whose genitalia are barbarically cut off? How about the oppression of Shiites by Sunnis, the gassing of the Kurds by Iraq, or the massacre of “Palestinians” by Jordan (Black September)? Why doesn’t this concern you?

10. Did you ever stop to wonder how much better off everyone in the region would be if Arabs stopped trying to kill Jews and destroy Israel? What would happen if the Israelis gave up their weapons and disarmed? Would they live to see the next day? But what would happen if the Arabs completely disarmed? You know the answer: They would all be AT PEACE! And if there is no war to rile them up, the Arabs would be forced to look at their own repressive, pre-medieval societies. Why would they want to do that when there are Jews to kill?

11. Have you heard “People who define themselves primarily by what they hate, rather than who they love, are doomed to failure and misery”? Can you see the parallels to the Arabs, who are blessed with land and oil, but still gladly train their children to kill themselves in order to kill Jews? Have you heard Golda Meir’s words to the effect of “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate ours”? Why do the Arabs hate so much?

reply to post by mmiichael


Wow! You just wrote out an essay. In a way I am flattered you have taken the trouble to go to such a length and it deserves a detailed and considered response. Unfortunately I am in the middle of an assignment and can only dip in and out for the next few days.

When I do respond, I will drop you a u2u. In the meantime I can assure you that I am not anti-Jewish. Had Jews been treated in the same way as Israelis treat Palestinians, I would probably be more angered than I am now based on my knowledge of what happened in the Holocaust.

What is happening in Gaza is too much and the suffering multi-layered starting with the loss of land, blockade and the recent siege. There are many other wrongs.

Regarding the Arabs you address in you comment, they are a race of people of many nationalities so I don't know why you are so eager in including them in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. It is a bit like someone pinching Greece and offsetting their homelessness on the rest of Europe because all the parties concerned are Europeans.

Funny you comment on the issue of hate. What do you consider more hateful, some geezer on the internet answering back at hideous anti-Arab, anti-Islam and anti-Palestinian posters or the killing of 1300 Palestinians?

Issues in Saudi Arabia, as you mention, are purely an internal matter up to the Saudis to resolve. This is similar to the feminist movement in the UK or the civil rights movement in the US, people from abroad didn't jump in and get involved. Israel, however, commits regular human rights abuses on another people it has excluded from their own land. By the nature of the abuse, it is an international matter particularly since the zionist movement incorporates US influence with all its power and the commitment of millions of non-Israelis across the world on the basis of their Jewishness. So in the end, it is Israel that has internationalised its activities in Palestine. On that basis alone, you shouldn't have any objections when non-Palestinians have a say in the matter especially when the Palestinians don't have a voice to match Israel and its associated zionist movement.

Thanks for reading the long post. You may have missed the mention that it is from elsewhere and I picked it up as a good summary argument.

I don't like the label Zionist. Myself, though I've lived on 3 continents, I've never been to Israel. I've probably worked with and known more Muslims tha Jews in the last decade.

It's easy to go through what is said and done by any selected group, say Christians, Jews, Muslims, Communists, etc - and attribute international problems to their activities.

The case for Christian societies causing most of the strife worldwide is overwhelming.

The Jews in Israel have been in a defensive stand since they started immigrating to the region over 100 years ago. Much of their response and reaction to their Arab neighbours comes from a self-preservation instinct more than a desire to expand their borders.

Strangely, when I discuss this type of thing with, say, Iranian and Lebanese friends here in Canada, I get a consensus reply. They say that conflict with neighbouring countries, rival religious sects, different regions, is endemic to the culture.

The vast majority of Arabs have to deal with the realities of day to day existence and maintaining families. The leaders of most Middle Eastern regimes have inherited or seized control of their land at some point in time. Without the advantages of a prolonged evolution through an Industrial Age, universal education, liberalization, etc - even with massive resource wealth and high technology available, the worldview still tends to be provincial and tribalistic.

This is not meant as a criticism as much as an observation. The notion of developing a strong manufacturing and service base, compulsory education for all, the creation of a viable middle class, the development of infrastructures to accomodate growth, are still new and not fully embraced.

War and fighting over territory, resources, control - are so much easier. There are 20 territory disputes in the Middle East right now. Millions have been displaced in the latter half of the 20th Century over various conflicts.

800,000 Jews were thrown out of Muslim countries in 1948 after the failed attempt to destroy the new state. Though many had lived in their native countries for centuries, they simply packed their bags and went to the one place they were welcomed. No protests to the UN, no sitting in camps for 60 years.


I work full-time and posting extensively is a bit of a stolen luxury.

Maybe more soon.


MF