16 Illegals Sue Arizona Rancher--Claim violation of "rights."

Originally posted by psyko45

 

He didnt know wether they were illeagal or not.(neither do you)
So somebody walks across your yard you have the right to hold them at gunpoint because somebody peed on your rosebush last week?

If I didn't invite you, you trespass. I'm going to pee on you; OK?

Want me to come by your place whenever I want, with my criminal friends?
Legal=invited

Illegal=not invited.

Question?

deny ignorants

jw

[edit on 9-2-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by psyko45


Even if this was a hunting party, though I'm still not sure exactly what is going on here, they were armed and trespassing... I would have payed them a visit as well...

Like I said in my above post though, I'm confused on the exact details in this...

Just saw your post Jam, thanks for the info...

So these guys were illegals... Is this guys land in a position where he could see these people illegally enter?

[edit on 9-2-2009 by XTexan]

Thats what he was saying in order to justify his actions. Basically there had been property damage in the past by illegals. But not this group. They were just basically walking.

reply to post by GTORick

the article did say they were committing property and personal crimes. Not to mention the environmental mess they cause.

The article seems to be one sided in my opinion.

I still don't believe he could shoot a trespasser unless the trespasser was intent on causing him bodily harm.

Originally posted by psyko45
Thats what he was saying in order to justify his actions. Basically there had been property damage in the past by illegals. But not this group. They were just basically walking.

Ya they were basically walking... illegally into another country, and illegally on a citizen of that countries property... They got busted, now they wanna get paid... thats ridiculous

reply to post by XTexan

illegally into another country,

True, but at the time he didn't know if they were illegal or not. He was basing it on the color of their skin.

reply to post by jdub297



He didnt know thier status and he is not qualified to determine this.

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Mod edit: Snipped large quote and used 'reply to' feature

[edit on 2/10/2009 by Badge01]

reply to post by jam321

BINGO!!! Somebody finally hat the "cajones" to say what Ive been eluding to. KUDOSKUDOSKUDOSKUDOS

reply to post by jam321


Yes but they were also on his property illegally, and as per his history he will stop anyone that is on his property illegally.

I question that someone cannot detain someone for trespassing, from my experience in the retail business a store can detain someone for shoplifting until the police arrive, why can a citizen not do the same to someone who is trespassing?

If someone was walking through your yard, killing your cats and dogs, throwing trash in the pool, your kids are upstairs asleep and this happened on a regular basis,,.. are you going to say no big deal? You hold up a gun and tell him to get out of your yard. Then you call the cops, and the
people that were just in your yard and killed your cat, are now suing you.



I sure would not. I am going to pull a gun too. Get of my yard, leave my family, my animals alone. These people are not just wandering through doing nothing, they are causing damage. Then there is the high likely hood this owner could get killed with all the drug wars going on there .

I live on the top of the amnesty trail, in a small town, and EVERY day there are break ins here while people are at home, or people that get assulted walking down the street in broad day light. They are getting more violent.
They find bodies around here every couple weeks. I have caught someone in my yard a couple times at night, and they tried to kick my door in one night.
They get in here, they are shot . Period. No one is touching me or my daughter. A lot of people are moving now to get away , but we can not afford that luxury . There is rite now an illegal alien that has been sexually assulting young kids in this town both boys and girls, and they have not yet caught him, though they know who he is now. Mexican gang symbols are being sprayed all over the walls and unbuilt homes.

I am just sick of it. Really really sick of it. I am sick of the open borders, I am sick that Obama passed a bill where they will now get free health care.
I am sick that the judge is hearing that case. I would like Obama to come stay at my house for a month. Live in this town where this stuff happens,
and then decide on his policies. This is an open invitation.
You want to stand for the people , then come see how people live and you you would hande dealing with all this crap. Not just him, any politician that votes for these policies.

Originally posted by psyko45
reply to post by jam321

 

BINGO!!! Somebody finally hat the "cajones" to say what Ive been eluding to. KUDOSKUDOSKUDOSKUDOS

1st, they're 'cojones'; next you're "alluding" to things you're your frighetned afraid to say. Grow some nuts, If you want Mexicans in your front yard, say so. If not, say that, too.

Speak up, or go away,

reply to post by XTexan


I am still looking for info on that lease he has and the terms to see if it really his property. In the interview I posted it said the Border Patrol or federal government leased it to him. Yes, they can detain people as long as it is done in a safe manner. They still can't abuse or mistreat them.

Originally posted by XTexan
reply to post by jam321

 

Yes but they were also on his property illegally, and as per his history he will stop anyone that is on his property illegally.

I question that someone cannot detain someone for trespassing, from my experience in the retail business a store can detain someone for shoplifting until the police arrive, why can a citizen not do the same to someone who is trespassing?

Because hes not law enforcement. As far as I know a shopkeeper cant hold someone at gunpoint for shoplifting if they retrieved the property. The key is the poor judgement in the use of a firearm.

If someone tries to rob a store with a gun and the clerk shoots and wounds them legally they still cant detain them. Though most judges wont persue this.

The judge is going to see that this guy has basically started a private crusade. Something that I would like to do myself. (against any number of types of criminals)But we dont, because we do have a system.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by amatrine
This is so true.

I have kids.
I have a home.

What is going on on ? You have picked up on so much of what is wrong or inexplicable. We don't need flying saucers or NWO; we are seeding our own destruction bit by bit with this kind of crap.

Thanl you for being one of the last to see the truth.

Deny Ignorance

jw

It's the damn lawyers who are the real "bad guys." It is unbelievable to me the lengths they will go for fame glory and money!

reply to post by jam321
To lease includes the"right of enjoyment and exclusivity," for the property conveyed. It is a property right.

Did you want to take my property from me without complaint?

If you're from Mexico, does that make it better?

reply to post by jam321

reply to post by psyko45


From what I've read, if a crime was witnessed... at least a misdemeanor, then you can make a citizens arrest. Once a citizens arrest has been made they can legally detain them.

Jam, I'll wait to hear form you on the lease as I don't know how to look into that...

How to make a citizens arrest

Wiki: Citizens arrest

Wiki says a felony must be witnessed to perform a citizens arrest but the case of State VS Chavez in Arizona says it can be used in a non-felony breach of peace also

Site with info on State VS Chavez

reply to post by XTexan

Detain. It says nothing about the use of a firearm and a dog. Maybe block with your vehicle or lock a door or something. IMO this is armed criminal action.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by XTexan

 

illegally into another country,

True, but at the time he didn't know if they were illegal or not. He was basing it on the color of their skin.

And that same man was right.

Do not judge a man for following his instincts either.

Hate to break it to you - but STEREOTYPES ARE SOMETIMES REAL! Especially in that part of the country, in that area.

It is your logic that really confuses me. You try to prove that the farmer has done wrong when he was spot on. Yet you still do not support him.

Skin color means A LOT - especially when determining illegal immigrants. Get that politically correct BS out of your head.