It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NewsWeek: We Are All Socialists Now!

page: 2
14
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 10:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by 5thElement

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


I also have a hard time seeing what is going on as "socialism." It looks a lot more like fascism to me as well.



I understand what you are saying however the way things are interpreted at large is often the reality of the meaning. Its a semantically thing. We can talk textbook definitions to keep things in focus however the way ideas fold out on the street leave is another definition.




posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 10:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by 5thElement

Fully agree here. This is far, far away from socialism. People are really confused here.

Labeling Obama (and democrats) as socialist here is similar to the Reagan style labeling from the cold war era: call your opponents communists and plant this trough heavy use of media in people minds in order to create fear


Yeah, like labelling the USSR as communist................hang on a sec



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 10:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by infinite
These bailout packages are symbolic of the idealism that Oswald Mosley proclaimed during the Great Depression. I know some members are fastidious and will always be very zealous to name everything as "socialism", but this is far from Das Kapital territory.



Well the old Marxist are the New Left socialists. They came around to the understanding that socialism, the Marks stepchild, to operate had to have a host for the parasite to live off. Cant kill that golden gooses or the parasites dies as well.

Pure Marxist idealism had to morph, had to redefine the serf lord and the serf, capital and industry.

The Fascist comes riding in on the back of the socialist beast spouting off about the rights of the people with a chain in his hand. Socialism is fascism and attracts the dammedist personalities. Hitler, Stalin ect.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:01 AM
link   

Originally posted by Logarock
I understand what you are saying however the way things are interpreted at large is often the reality of the meaning. Its a semantically thing. We can talk textbook definitions to keep things in focus however the way ideas fold out on the street leave is another definition.


ummm that barely even makes any sense
no offense man
but.....

what??????

reality is how your oppressor depicts it?

okay there
oh oh.... damn... twilizght zone again!



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:04 AM
link   
Newsweek is just as stupid as Time, who actually selected Bush as their man of the year once. How stupid.

Magazines are just MSM misinfo-disinfo diarrhea machines. What an insult to us for them to be printing this junk.

The conditions that Americans are living under today are not Socialist, but Fascist.

Americans are living in a Fascist system where the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

Socialism? More like for the rich because the poor have no choice in these 'tough times' but to lose their worker's rights.

The wealthy are very happy with these times. Socialism doesn't apply to them!

edit: oops not newsworld but newsweek


[edit on 9-2-2009 by star in a jar]



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:04 AM
link   
we are more a mix of everything than just one type of system.

you can still get super rich in America by your self

that is a capitalistic approach

for instance, I own a Healh Care company I bank about 600k a year.

I couldn't do that in China....or probably France.

I picked a good industry though, Healthcare and government = partners.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Logarock
I understand what you are saying however the way things are interpreted at large is often the reality of the meaning. Its a semantically thing. We can talk textbook definitions to keep things in focus however the way ideas fold out on the street leave is another definition.


ummm that barely even makes any sense
no offense man
but.....



I an just saying that ideas and definitions of things are often better defined where they pan out, not how they sound on podiums and in the ivory towers.

Like the old saying "Go west young man! There is gold in them thar hills!"

Now go and ask a prospector and he will tell you about Indians, skyrocketing inflation, claim ripoffs, ect.

The guy in the trench has a totality different understanding of the war far removed from platitudes and theories.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:44 AM
link   
I tell you what the new brainwashing motor is in full effect right now. Everywhere I seem to look these past few weeks it seems I see the word or hear the word on the news....SOCIALIST! It is being crammed down our throats right now to try and better prepare the public for what they are planning. They know that many of us will resist this with all of our will.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 11:50 AM
link   
reply to post by blueorder
 


Not because of our "Socialist" model, if you can even call it that. American idea's of what is Socialism and what is actually the model in Europe are so off the mark, I hate using the term in their presence, no offence.

We are badly hit because ALL of our major Banks, which operate in both a retail and commercial environment side by side, invested heavily in the derivatives market coming out of the USA.

When that went south it took our Banks with you, despite the UK being rather economically sound. With the dry up of credit, cause by the excesses in America, came the big crunch that took alot of British business's with it despite them being commercially viable, because they couldn't raise the capital needed to operate on a day to day basis until normal revenue streams (such as Christmas for the retailers) kicked in.

This feeds back into the wider economy, as layoffs spark fear. Otherwise sound companies lay off staff to protect the bottom line, causing more fear. Most of this "crisis" is psychological in nature, spawned by the fear and financial mess coming from the USA.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 12:04 PM
link   
What is wrong with socialism? Why have US citizens been brainwashed into thinking socialism is bad?

Is it because the corrupt politicians are on the corporate payroll?

I think the citizens of USA should worry about fascism more than socialism.

Just look at Denmark, Norway and Sweden, the most socialist countries in the western world and you see they are doing just fine and even better than fine.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 12:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Waldy
 


Exactly. The Scandinavians have a very Social model. They also have the highest standards of living, the best education and low crime. Their Parliamentary systems are less adversarial than say the US or UK systems, in so much that Governments are often coalitions of several parties, so they are forced to compromise and listen to what the people want.

The only drawback they have is high taxation, but when you get free healthcard, free childcare, free education up to Uni and have fantastically low crime and social disorder, it's atrade off I'd happily make. If only I could speak their language....



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 12:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by ImaNutter
 


I agree the Bush bailout was nothing more than Socialism for the big fat corporations at the top.
Now with Obama we have Socialism for the masses which starts at the bottom.
One uses a top down approach, the other will use a bottom up approach.
This is a NWO pincer move.


Sorry , but I'm having a hard time seeing how you think Obama works from the bottom up???

Did we see that with the Bail-Out Mania? I think not. Show me and I will give you some cred.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 12:48 PM
link   
Socialism, according to Marx, is when the state owns the means of production. To the extent that a few banks may be nationalized in order to stabilize the economy, and to the extent that Americans collectively have to pay for the losses of banks and corporations (while the profits remain private, unlike socialism) that might be called socialist influence, but we're a far cry from becoming a socialist country.

Roosevelt's new deal was decried as a "socialist" when he helped to implement it. The CCC and the WPA, for example--large government projects to finance infrastructure projects and hire millions of people and put them to work during the Great Depression--were called socialist.

Social Security was also called "socialist" by some when it was first introduced, but there are few people today who want it dismantled. I don't know of anybody who has returned their Social Security check to the government on principle.

While the government of the U.S, will never own all the means of production in the U.S. (I'd argue that multi-national corporations do, mostly) socializing some things may just be the best solution in the short term.

Americans are the only people who get hysterical at the very word. A calm and rational approach to some of our economic problems may reveal that some "socialization" might be the best way out. We will still be a capitalist country and probably always will be.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by Sestias]



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:01 PM
link   
It is here.

We heard & saw it coming from a distance for generations.

Only problem: it came so blinking fast we didn't have time to get our affairs together. We didn't want to believe in such things.

It is not "this political party nor that party." People fail to zoom out for a wider field of view. It is the Grand Scheme that has been orchestrated for years. The illusion has succeeded. Now it is being perpetuated, "ad infinitum."

Puppets. Muppets. Illusionists. Spending. Greed. Lies & mirrors. Ad nauseum.

Living with it is called change. Humanity 404. Get accustomed to it fast.

Welcome my friends. Welcome To the Machine.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Karlhungis
I also have a hard time seeing what is going on as "socialism." It looks a lot more like fascism to me as well.


That's quite understandable as the general populous and main stream media often misuse the terms, interchanging them when their definitions do not warrant it.


Socialism is a system which attempts to bring everyone to an equal playing field, everyone gets the same pay, rights, etc.
Unfortunately, it's a system that can easily be taken advantage of... as we have seen in the past.

Fascism is when the government pushes a unifying ideal, and everyone is expected to support that ideal. This is typically done through propaganda, and once the majority holds to that ideal, everyone else is punished in some way for not supporting it. The only means of enforcing the ideal is to spy on it's own citizens and hold the ability to imprison them or eliminate them based on suspicion.


The reason I see these terms often being confused is because the terms Capitalism and Democracy are often misused as well.

Capitalism is intended to be the system by which each person is worth what they make themselves to be worth. Socialism is it's opposite.

Democracy is intended to be a system where everyone has a say, and nobody's say is invalid.
Fascism is it's opposite.


I often find people in the western world have been brought up to understand everything in black and white. Right or wrong.
Those who have woken up to reality know that most things don't fit neatly into any category... and certainly can't be easily declared right or wrong.

However the western world persists in attempting to do so... anything they already do, they classify as right.
Everything else is classified as wrong.
Hence, the systems of other countries are often logged in our minds under "Wrong", and from there are confused with each other.

These people who mix up the terms are attempting to find a word for; "That countries beliefs we don't like".

They don't know the definitions themselves, so they just start pulling words out of their backsides in an attempt to sound smarter than they really are.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:26 PM
link   
reply to post by johnsky
 




That's quite understandable as the general populous and main stream media often misuse the terms, interchanging them when their definitions do not warrant it.


It really doesn't matter what it is. The government and media are trying to convince America there is something wrong with capitalism. The very thing our enemies have been doing for years. It doesn't matter what socialism is to you, if its steering away from our roots and what made us great.

Sticking with our principles may be more painful, but business will bounce back stronger. People will learn from their mistakes and do even better after they rise from the ashes. Nationalizing business to secure jobs is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:38 PM
link   
Bush paved the way and got the ball rolling. Obama jumped on it ... added to it ... and sped it up. The two of them are kissing cousins. This is no longer a republic with democratic institutions and free market principles.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 01:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by blueorder
 


We are badly hit because ALL of our major Banks, which operate in both a retail and commercial environment side by side, invested heavily in the derivatives market coming out of the USA.

When that went south it took our Banks with you, despite the UK being rather economically sound. With the dry up of credit, cause by the excesses in America......
Most of this "crisis" is psychological in nature, spawned by the fear and financial mess coming from the USA.


I looked into the UK problems doing some research a while back. Their banks were doing the same thing, passing out bad loans and selling them off. And then the government bailed out the banks.

Its clear to see you have been brainwashed into blaming America alone.



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 02:05 PM
link   
Newsweek needs to learn what socialism is...

The workers control/ownership of the means of production.

Anything else is NOT socialism.

When the government own the means of production it's nationalism.

There has never been a true socialist country. European countries, just like the US, are capitalist with some nationalised systems.

Social programs are not socialism. They are a necessity under capitalism as capitalism creates, and requires, unemployment. Without the fear of unemployment workers would have the power to dictate to their employees. Employers would have to pay ever increasing wages to keep good workers. This leads to companies going out of business, due to the inability to keep up with wage demands. Thus it leads right back to unemployment as companies fail. This is why capitalism is not an advantage to the working class in the long run.

So social programs/welfare are a by-product of capitalism not socialism.
Socialists just recognise the reality of the capitalist system, and know that under capitalism the idea that all can be wealthy is a myth, as the unemployment catch 22 proves. Pure capitalism, without safety nets, is impossible.

If we had always been socialist (workers controlling their own lives) then we wouldn't have needed 'welfare' for the poor. We would be working for the good of our communities, not our personal bank accounts, which would benefit ALL of us, not just the lucky few.

So please don't blame socialism for something that capitalism created.

[edit on 2/9/2009 by ANOK]



posted on Feb, 9 2009 @ 02:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by ergoli


The nanny state however has proven resilient to the crisis, unlike the american-style boundless capitalism system... food for thought ?

Many here don't understand economics but spew hatred at a word "socialism". Why is that so ? The answer is: because the american fascist warmonger media have hammered this into your heads, and now you are regurgitating it.

This is the time of the capitalist crisis, it's a time to turn away from capitalism.. not from socialism.



Nothing is wrong with capitalism. American capitalism is what inspired "The American Dream." There is no other place on earth where you can experience the kind of success you can in America. You can literally go from rags to riches, people who have never ventured out of the states do not know how lucky we truly are.

Socialism = Big Government. Now, whats so wrong with that? Well, quite a few things actually. First of all, you have the government breathing down your neck to comply with their rules of taxation. Now to some, this seems like a great idea, but to others who actually have to work for a living, this is 21st century slavery. You essentially extinguish "the land of opportunity," and if you think otherwise, tell me where else in the world can you go from a nobody to a somebody? Only in the good ol' US Of A my friend. Bigger government is aching for more and more of your freedoms to be taken away. Do you wish to live in a nanny state like the UK and much like most of western europe?

100% pure capitalism means that you are in the drivers seat. You control your own destiny, not the government. Pure capitalism is what will rescue us from this extreme mess.



new topics

top topics



 
14
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in

join