Octuplet Grandma Calls Daughter 'Unconscionable'

Originally posted by Mynaeris
$100 000 plus has gone to the IVF.

The balance I think went to reconstructing an already pretty face. Here are the before and after pictures. Notice the change in the face especially lips and nose. In fact there is a plastic surgeon who should be sued for that nose.





[edit on 10-2-2009 by Mynaeris]

Ah. Ok. Wow. I didnt know this.

I dont think I can come back to this thread or the topic. The more I find out the more peeved I get. LOL And im with you skeptic....who knows what else will come out by tomorrow. As the World of MsBabyMaker Turns.

reply to post by Aeons


NO David Solomon (if he really exists) is not her boyfriend. She doesn't have a boyfriend but she claims he was a friend who helped her with having these children. And even while she was married to Gutierrez she used "David Solomon's" sperm to create these embryos that she had frozen for special "I need a baby" cravings.

Regarding David Somon and her children - she claims that he is the father of all 14 children, but that he has never had contact with any of the 14.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo

Ah. Ok. Wow. I didnt know this.

I dont think I can come back to this thread or the topic. The more I find out the more peeved I get. LOL And im with you skeptic....who knows what else will come out by tomorrow. As the World of MsBabyMaker Turns.

You make a very valid point she should quit the movie of the month idea and rather go for a long running soapie on TV. I am betting my back teeth she is already thinking that Angelina Jolie will play her in the movie.

This woman makes me sick.

I am single with 2 kids, by 1 pregnancy, and going to college to get a better life for them and me.

I am not even dating right now. I can't even fathom having a 3rd child in this situation, let alone 14!

Nadya has a wake up call coming. She will never be respected as a councelor or a child-care specialist now. I hope any university she applies to has the good sense to turn her down on grounds of mental instability.

I really feel for the grandma.

reply to post by asmeone2


I'm not even sure I feel for Nadya's mother any longer. She's been enabling her daughter and probably will continue to do so.

I know she (the mother) has said some not-too-kind things about her daughter, but it's not like she has done anything to distance herself from the situation and just be "Grandma".

reply to post by skeptic1


I think prior to this her fear was for the 6 kids. Hopefully she will take herself out of the situation now that there is so much publicity.

And her mother says that he is her boyfriend, father of her children, and wanted to marry her really really badly. And that Nadya won't marry him.

Originally posted by Mynaeris
reply to post by Aeons

 

NO David Solomon (if he really exists) is not her boyfriend. She doesn't have a boyfriend but she claims he was a friend who helped her with having these children. And even while she was married to Gutierrez she used "David Solomon's" sperm to create these embryos that she had frozen for special "I need a baby" cravings.

Regarding David Somon and her children - she claims that he is the father of all 14 children, but that he has never had contact with any of the 14.

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by asmeone2

 

I'm not even sure I feel for Nadya's mother any longer. She's been enabling her daughter and probably will continue to do so.

I know she (the mother) has said some not-too-kind things about her daughter, but it's not like she has done anything to distance herself from the situation and just be "Grandma".

Or she is realisinthat her daughter can't raise children and doesn't want her grandkids dying in the street like a bunch of rats. Mabe she is making a sacrifice, not enabling her daughter. Maybe she actually cares for these kids in a way their mother never will cause she views them as toys.

Maybe you should stop blaming the grandmother for at least tryign to give the kids a normal life.

reply to post by Finn1916



Maybe I didn't blame the grandmother. Maybe I speculated....

Just like you. Just like all of us. Because, none of us know exactly what is going on in that house with that family.

reply to post by skeptic1


Sorry it wasn't meant as a jab at you per se, but mor of an observation thatlots of people are ready to jump on the grandmother and blame her.

Take this for example. I have an aunt who is an evil selfish egotistical whore. When she was in her thirties and till living at home it was because she did not wan to spend her own money to clothe feed and house her daughter. As much as a parent can get close to greatly disliking their child my grandfather felt that way with my aunt.

The ONLY reason she was living there is bcause my grandfather knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that my cousin would probably not even get the bare minimum of care not living in his house. Was he enabling my aunt in her selfish ways? Pobably, but he was doing it for a good reason, just like i speculate this grandmother is doing. If she dislik what her daughte ris doin that much, and yet is still spending all her timne and savings taking care of these children then it is because she knows the kids woud probably be dead without her.

Whoever posted that before and after pic of her, thanks. I swear I've seen her before. Maybe on Jerry Springer? Her old face looks familiar.

Originally posted by phushion
It's a prime example of what people do here in the UK, it's almost a profession for young women to open there legs, get nocked up then suck of the nipple of the state for the rest of their lives, sadly tho here its usualy 3 to 4 children, not erm how many has she got, 12? or more?

Now lets not be sexist. It takes two to make a baby. Even with IVF. One of my personal pet peeves is all the bashing on women for welfare children with seemingly no recognition whatsoever that there is a penis involved in the making of those children.

While I absolutely do not support breeding as a career, I also do not support slinging your sperm around irresponsibly.

From www.chron.com...

The suit said Kamrava required patients to pay their bills in cash, which was then put in an envelope and given to Kamrava’s wife, who “never entered the payment into the computer and never deposited the payment in the bank” so that Kamrava could avoid paying income tax on the money. The clinic kept two sets of books, one for insurance payments and one for cash payments, the lawsuit alleged.

Afshar also claimed that Kamrava’s office defrauded insurance companies by double billing for procedures and by billing companies for unnecessary medication that Kamrava kept and then re-sold to other patients. In addition, the suit claims that Kamrava’s office billed insurance companies for one procedure and then performed another.

The suit appeared to have settled in 1999, shortly before it went to trial.

In another case, Shantal Rajah, an embryologist from England, was awarded more than $300,000 in back pay, attorneys fees and damages after working for Kamrava for less than a month. Court papers show that Rajah and Kamrava did not get along and at one point got

I think it is safe to say that there may be a lot more fraudulent activity around this than just Ms. Suleman.

The truth of the matter is that no matter how she came about having these children, she should be investigated by how they are living.

I will say one thing in regard to the grandmother. Our society worships the "bioparent / biochild bond" to the point of idiocy. I worked a short time in law enforcement surrounding child abuse and most of the time everyone knew that the idea of "reunification" was idiotic and harmful to the child. It, is, however enshrined in US law that that bond is the priority over all others.

Grandparents routinely fail to be able to get grandchildren from their drug abusing or mentally disturbed children. The main reason I cannot do foster care is that I will end up in trouble with the law because I would hunt down whoever hurt a child I know and they would not be happy when I found them. This would do neither the child or I any good.

It takes a very special person to do foster care in this legal environment - even if that person is a relative. The grandparents are probably doing the best they can in a legal environment where the courts won't disallow this woman from keeping her children.

Her story is really a failure of CPS - not IVF. The doctor's story is a failure of IVF as well as medical ethics. Every reputable clinic considers triplets or more a FAILURE. This is not a reputable clinic.

With this being said, I cannot, in good conscience, support any interference between doctors and patients seeking care. (I consider medicine over regulated as it is. I know about hospice care and pain management doctors being harassed for properly treating their patients.) Whenever Congress gets involved with science bad things happen.

Just when you thought you had read everything about this travesty of procreation...

According to the Medical Board of California, Kamrava is indeed an M.D. with a valid license.


We checked one of our favorite Web sites, that of the American Board of Medical Specialties, to see if Dr. Kamrava is board-certified. A surprising number of doctors practice without being boarded, 15% or more. Many others are certified as generalists but claim to be specialists when they have received no special training. This is a particular problem in fields that are cash-based, like fertility treatments or plastic surgery.


We used the ABMS's doctor search button and Kamrava did not come up as boarded in anything. Typically a fertility specialist will be boarded in Obstetrics and Gynecology. Another way that fertility specialists get boarded is through the Society for Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility, which certifies fellowship training in the field. Again, a search revealed no board certification on Kamrava's part, even on his Web site he claims to have done a residency and fellowship. Perhaps in a different field?


Suleman's doctor has already been the subject of intense criticism for his patient's behavior. Might part of the problem be that Kamrava isn't even a specialist in his proclaimed field?

Forbes

Originally posted by Finn1916

Or she is realisinthat her daughter can't raise children and doesn't want her grandkids dying in the street like a bunch of rats.

I calculate the chance those children will die like rats in the street at approaching zero in America. Especially since grandma does seem to care about them and could easily call the authorities long before that happened.

Originally posted by Finn1916
Mabe she is making a sacrifice, not enabling her daughter.

And maybe all parents who enable their children in destructive behaviors feel that "its the right thing to do." Including the parents of drug addicted children. You support or make a sacrifice for a child or a person who has somehow hit a bad patch. Maybe even more than once. But lets not forget this is the sixth pregnancy. When you see that your "help" is allowing the bad behavior to continue, and is in fact permitting the bad behavior to continue, you move from "helping" to "enabling."

www.thefreedictionary.com...

en·a·ble (-nbl)
tr.v. en·a·bled, en·a·bling, en·a·bles
1.
a. To supply with the means, knowledge, or opportunity; make able: a hole in the fence that enabled us to watch; techniques that enable surgeons to open and repair the heart.
b. To make feasible or possible: funds that will enable construction of new schools.
2. To give legal power, capacity, or sanction to: a law enabling the new federal agency.
3. To make operational; activate: enabled the computer's modem; enable a nuclear warhead.

Originally posted by Finn1916
Maybe you should stop blaming the grandmother for at least tryign to give the kids a normal life.

Most children consider "a good life" one that includes attention. When a mother has 14 (or 18) children, how much attention can she give each child per day? Especially when one (or more) has autism? Say she gets a job, (8 hours min not counting travel time) and needs to sleep, (6 hours, we wont give her a full 8 to be fair) and has to shop, cook, and clean (3 hours min) for a total of 17 hours, that gives her 7 hours to divide between 14 children and herself. Or if she doesnt leave herself any personal time, 30 minutes a day per child. Now you know the handicapped children are going to use more than 30 minutes of her time. So that means that some of her children are going to get next to none of her time.

And, it means that some of her older children are going to spend their childhood playing parent to the younger children in the family because they have to.

If Grandma had made her be responsible for all her own expenses, from the start, she would not have been able to save the kind of money she did for those treatments. (as she claimed in her interview.)

I will flat out say, without apology, that Grandma and Grandpa are enabling her bad behavior and cannot be considered victims in the true sense. I feel for them, I am sure they did what they did because they love her, but it was misguided and damaging to not only her but their grandchildren in the long run.

Nadya somehow learned in life that what she wanted should be hers no matter what the cost to any other involved party. Where I come from we call that "spoiled." She got that somewhere. My guess is it is from Grandma and Grandpa. They spoiled her then, and continue to spoil her, and so she is acting like......wait for it............a spoiled and selfish child.

A good parent doesnt spoil a child. They raise them to be independent adults. This doesnt mean "no help" it means very selective help.

A mental disorder is not necessarily initiated by bad parenting.

reply to post by Aeons


Being a spoiled brat is not necessarily a mental disorder.

As far as I know, no one has diagnosed her with anything.

Who said she has no job and no means of supporting herself? She does in fact have a job. She's a call girl. A so-called "high-class" call girl, meaning she charges high fees, not that she has class. She had all these babies as a publicity stunt to get her (plastic) face in the media so she can earn more money as a call girl. I don't understand how people can be so naive as not to realize this. Being from L.A., I know how to recognize a call girl when I see her, and this gal definitely is one. There are so many women like this in L.A. If you're from there, you can recognize them from a mile off.