U.S. vs. China

One thing I would like to point out is that China has been a market economy since 1978. China is not without its own problems. They have banking problems that could derail their economy. They will most likely let their currency float. When an economy lets its currency float that means it is possible to %uck with it. And one of the biggest points is that China is a communist nation that not to long ago killed its own citizens. The government could change and in the process plunge their economy into chaos. A few people that I know with investments in China are ready to pull the plug at any time. If something happens a serious amount of capital could flee china and leave them in a bad way. Capital has a way of coming and going.

So what I am saying is that there are alot of things that can happen so do not count your chickens before they hatch.

Hey dBates, just wondering, but how did you add those comic-words to that pic of the Chinese military vehicle with the two guys driving it??

The U.S. is not trying to conquer the world, it is trying to make sure no one else has the power to conquer it or cause trouble, OR threaten the U.S.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
One thing I would like to point out is that China has been a market economy since 1978. China is not without its own problems. They have banking problems that could derail their economy. They will most likely let their currency float. When an economy lets its currency float that means it is possible to %uck with it. And one of the biggest points is that China is a communist nation that not to long ago killed its own citizens. The government could change and in the process plunge their economy into chaos. A few people that I know with investments in China are ready to pull the plug at any time. If something happens a serious amount of capital could flee china and leave them in a bad way. Capital has a way of coming and going.

So what I am saying is that there are alot of things that can happen so do not count your chickens before they hatch.

China government killed its own citizens not long ago, you mean??

So, you think it is better for American goverment sent poor southern kids to the battlefield for the CEOs benifit from defense companies or oil companies in the name of "honor" or "freedom" or even "Jesus"?

What I mean is everygovernment has a way to "control", if it is necessary, send you to heaven anyway, just matter of what ways. I dont like communist government, but American government does not make me feel it is more respectful, and I suggest you dont hvae to try to make it so.

A few people that I know with investments in China are ready to pull the plug at any time. If something happens a serious amount of capital could flee china and leave them in a bad way.

I have no idea what you want to express here.

Are you trying to say that Capital will still stay in America if something bad happened in America? they will do so because........ the name is 'America' and they just love it? Everymarket is risky. China is risky, however, I'd say, if USA continue let its dollars become trash, the economy of America is much more risky in next 10 years.

just my two cents

Oil is crucial to a country's power and ability; yes, I am sure the CEO's who bribe the gov't to secure oil do it over $$$ reasons, but it ALSO must be done so that the oil is secure for the nation, so it can remain powerful.

When the U.S. went into Iraq earlier, there was a big risk that the Iraqis would start possibly the biggest oil fire in history, as the oil fields weren't secured. Luckily, the U.S. Marines got in there and secured it; had it been started, there'd be a huge oil fire sitll burning and the Bush administration probably would've sealed its own fate.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Oil is crucial to a country's power and ability; yes, I am sure the CEO's who bribe the gov't to secure oil do it over $$$ reasons, but it ALSO must be done so that the oil is secure for the nation, so it can remain powerful.

There are lots better ways to secure the nations:

Real decomcracy; More R&D on basic science to find alternative energy resource; Respect other nations...etc. But, no way. That means risky for them.

200 Billion dollars, can you image if US government put that money into basic research for alternative energy resoures? Can you image that they use that money to promote cars with batteries? Can you image that they use that money to train umemployeed person get better education for high level jobs instead of let them get limited for $5/hour jobs?

No, that is too risky for oil company and for walmart and for weapons manufacturers.

They need to make sure they can control the energy resources before new energy resources developed, they need to make sure enough wars shall happen so they can keep selling the weapons, they need to make sure most people only know becoming a garment wok still is an "ideal" job so they can say: "Look, Chinese is dangerous cause they will grab your job". And they need to make sure enough people need to go Church instead of school so they can say: "Look, Jesus is naming our government to help you........and God almighty will name GWB as the third term president".

So, you see, the CEOs choose a way to exaggerate their benefits and make their interest believed as the "interest" for the nation. THAT IS WHAT REAL AMERICA IS.

Free American and America with Freedom died a long long time ago. Since when? I dont know! I just know that at this moment it is replicate or mutant of communists.





[edit on 28-1-2005 by proteinx]

No, real America is still plenty around. You can still start with nothing and end up at the top, something you could never do in communist Russia. And you can still speak what you want in this country and such.

True, they could pour more money into finding alternate energy resources, but oil corporations have a lot of lobbying power in the gov't. Also, OIL IS NOT ONLY USED FOR ENERGY. Virtually every product out there is made with oil in it, from toys to computers to wires to cars, etc.....oil isn't only used for fuel.

Of course it would be better to find an alternate energy source, as it would be cheaper for the United States and safer too. But like I said, oil tycoons.

However, I would be for using military action to keep countries like China from controlling the oil in those areas and thus getting too powerful (no offense).

Originally posted by proteinx


Now, every one who claim American is fighting for freedom, please eat dog sh*t

[edit on 27-1-2005 by proteinx]

hmmm.. the koreans just eat plain dogs....

Why doesn,t anyone respond to my suggested use of Red Mercury weapons against China?KentMc,csm.

Neo conservatives get this in your brain...

ITS NOT THE SIZE OF THE DOG IN A FIGHT THATS IMPORTANT BUT THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG.

Advance weapon system is useless if there is no comitment, people defending a country are desperate and will bit back hard.

The same goes if in future US gets attacked they will fight hard.


And if US invades it will be against world opinion... it will have to fight alone
and i doubt if people in their right mind in the US itself would support such move.


Europe will not support , i doubt even the Brits will support. germans and french out of question. Russia no chance. India will not risk a US presence in its vicinity. (even think it might help China).

The rest of asia will support China. Malaysia, Indonesia are already upset over Iraq.
AND THERE IS ALWAYS THE OLD LOGIC

NEVER FIGHT A LAND WAR IN ASIA AND NEVER GET INVOLVED IN EUROPEAN WARS.


Also the Americans will be a shocked lot 10 years down the line .
Its the magic of compound interest 9% growth if maintained for 10 years will change the play.
It will be the other way round Americans dependent on China for trade.

As for tech I will say the same 10 years down the line just watch.

I will give u an example as how quickly things change. Till 1980 the soviet had a better tanks and NATO tanks were a generation behind . But the ABrams changed the equation.So just in a short time the gap was closed.

IT can happen again Tech advantages and not always permanent.

If the usa invaded china, it would only be for a massive problem, like hitler type thing-and would only go with support from allies..we couldnt handle china alone, like china couldnt handle the usa alone... anyway

it would not be intrenched jungle fighting like vietnam. most of chinas population exists on the east coast, it would most likely be urban fighting in cities and towns.. in a war of that magnitude, jungles and such would be leveled with MOABs and such...

what about Canada vs China! dont forget about the Canucks! we own everyone.....cept the rest of the world...damn

Tahlen

there is some things that you all must get right

1. China is larger than US period, not just continental US

China land: 9,326,410 sq km
US land: 9,161,923 sq km
canada land: 9,093,507 sq km

(Source: www.cia.gov...)

China is even larger than canada. china only lacks Russia. This makes China is THE largest NON-ARCTIC state on earth.

2. China has about 400 nukes

(Source: www.ceip.org...)

But as an military analyst, I can tell you that China has more, probably around 1200. Hald of which are mount on ICBMs. The other half, standard delivery.

3. Russia and China can be good friends now, since China remains communitist and Russia is democratic. No more conflict of interest. The reason why Mao broke relations with Soviet was because he want to be the top dog in the World of Communism.

4. India and China has never had problem in history expect for a small war 50 years ago. Both India and China have a STRONG interest in not living in a white dominated world.

5. More seriosuly, you all lack serious understanding of geopolitics.
Check this...

Non of you mentioned anything about The European Union. The goal of EU or as I called it "Old Europe" is to regain its pre-eminence. The reason they have united is to muscle against US, who have taken all their glory.

Plus, EU has a strong interest in protecting China since China will help them balance of Russia, who is their primary competitor.

I can go on forever but you get the point.

6. One last thing, China is the only large non-white state in the world. If China falls, all asian, muslim, hindi, whatever, will be white man's pets FOREVER!!!!

"If you behave, little doggy, we'll throw you a bone..."

7. ALL NON WHITE PEOPLE, LET"S UNITE AGAINST A COMMON ENEMY, IF YOU DON'T WE ALL WILL FALL!

Originally posted by evilwun

7. ALL NON WHITE PEOPLE, LET"S UNITE AGAINST A COMMON ENEMY, IF YOU DON'T WE ALL WILL FALL!

World aint monkeys planet, you make it sound like such.

If US - China war ever occured it wouldnt really be occupation warfare, what is basically means other try to bombard others infrastucture to dust and by so make the country obsolete. So US main targets would be all Chinas main infrastuctures, like the Three gorges dam would be blown into oblivian. It would just mean that US bombs China all it got and other countrys drop aid afterwards, unless China has something to stop US under its sleeve, meaning to break US air superiority and i doubt it at the current settings.

Not to forget as people tend to say US is strechted too much currently, how has this over stretching effected its public? No they live like they always do, so it has no effect, imagine situation when US mobilize its forces, i bet with current arsenal and industry it would outplay easily China, to not forget its already on superior position. Not to forget if other countrys interfere directly it might cause nuclear strike. But in the end i doubt such scenario happens before someone can make nukes obsolete, i fear WMD's are to stay and get much get worse, like Russia shows high intrest upgrading those to stay on power.

I agree about US air dominance however, on the long run it won't work. China invest heavily on military technology for self-defense. Because we realize we are chicken # to the US militarily, presently. You think we would allow US batterships/carriers to stand for long??? We are sepcifically aligned to remove such threats.

In order to leverage successful longterm air offensives, US would like only find support in Japan. I cannot imagine any other neighboring state would be so stupid as to lend ground space to US for the invasion on China.

Don't forget, we annexed Tibet because we need the Himalaya to separate us from India. Also, will Japan really help US??? I recalled they got nuked twice before. I don't think they have forgotten yet or will ever forget. They are just playing along now, until they have a chance to rise again, that is. If US and China go MAD, Japan will have a lot to gain in world standing.

If you wanted to kill all Chinese, you had your chance. MacAucther was right during the Korean War. Your weakness will spell out your DOOM. Now you have no choice but to co-exist with US in this small ass world. China is catching up and will do so in the next 100 years. When that day come, WE WILL KILL YOU ALL. Not leave on fu^king sole in the USA.

We have been around from 5 millinium, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK WE ARE GOING AWAY like the romans, the greeks, etc.

One day you will discover that our advantage is not that we are the smartest, strongest, what not. It is that we are bounddc by a common thread to survive, and expand, and defend against those that want to conquer us. One day, when we touch down on US home soil. When that day comes, it your children's ass.

JADESTONE, the us spends over 400 billion per year in defense compared to Chinas 50 billion. Do you think China will get a military advantage over the US by underspending the US on military hardware?

China has been invaded before. Here is a website showing what happened when China was invaded by Japan. Here is another website showing the true nature of Japans war machine.

Anybody that can say Japan did not deserve to get nuked after reading about the Nanking massacre deserves a public flogging.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
JADESTONE, the us spends over 400 billion per year in defense compared to Chinas 50 billion. Do you think China will get a military advantage over the US by underspending the US on military hardware?

China has been invaded before. Here is a website showing what happened when China was invaded by Japan. Here is another website showing the true nature of Japans war machine.

Anybody that can say Japan did not deserve to get nuked after reading about the Nanking massacre deserves a public flogging.

very glad you know that Japan is a true monster of war machine. The deepest sorrow and anger in most Chinese people's hearts is that this country never officially apologize or admit their horrible behavour like what German government did many years ago. As matter of fact, most young Japanese (young generation) almost completely igorant of this part of their history. As the moment WWII the 60th memorial year, I truely wish everybody here can take look at "rape of Nanking".

Also, as I said many times, except energy resources, I donot see any potential conficts between China and US. However, Japan, is always trying to bring up issues between these two countries and hope they can fight each other, thus the monster can be released by cheating USA or making USA government convienced that they will help USA to fight China someday, so they can fufill their war will and monster insticnt. Yes, they will help USA, if the war between China and USA happen, but only in the begining. What most likely happen is we will see the war machine monster restart again and they will finally hit back to USA, donot forget they got two nukes from American and they can generate massive nukes in very short period of time once the policy allow them to do so. It is not just dream or imagination that Japs trying all their skills (including cheating and all these things) to get rid of the control of USA. They know their only chance is let USA to get involved in a massive conflict with China.

As a matter of fact, if you guys take detail look at taiwan issue (most sensitive issue between China and USA), all these matters and troubles all made by one guy called Li Deng Hui in Taiwan, who officially claim himself is Japanese and has strong back groud and backup from Japanese right wing people in government (in fact, everything about so called taiwan independece movement is plotted by Jap's government and this guy).

Also, again, it is Japan push further again and again request USA to fully "protect" Taiwan---------they are hoping the war between China and USA than anybody else in the world.

I hope USA government is not stupid as what they were before pearl harbor attack. When Japanese foreign minister still nicely chat with USA government, their air force was in the half way to pearl habor already....


just another comment about your comparison of the budget, you have to consider the cost are extremely different, for example, the salary of a captain in China is about only 300 dollars per month (maybe no more than that), maybe only 50 dollars for each normal soldeir each month.....

Check the book, "rape of Naking", the author, who is Chinese American, was found "suicide" in a car located in South San Francisco just month ago.

Japan STILL hasn't acknowledged their war crimes with what they did to China and so forth, the bastards. If you go to the Japanese war museum (I forget its name) in Tokyo I believe it's in, you will find lies, lies, lies about Japan during WWII. Germany, although they may still be jerks (or their gov't anyhow), at least acknowledges what they did in WWII. They don't try to manipulate history on anything.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
JADESTONE, the us spends over 400 billion per year in defense compared to Chinas 50 billion. Do you think China will get a military advantage over the US by underspending the US on military hardware?

China has been invaded before. Here is a website showing what happened when China was invaded by Japan. Here is another website showing the true nature of Japans war machine.

Anybody that can say Japan did not deserve to get nuked after reading about the Nanking massacre deserves a public flogging.

Get real. China got invade before b/c the country was run by the same pussssies that fleed to taiwan. We are under a new gov't now. PASSION OF MAO!!!!! We won the korean war defeating the UN, defeated india, vietnam. Who dares to invade us now?????

About Nanjing. That was another tragedy caused by Chiang Kaishek fleeing. I would fuc%ing behead him myself.

Dooes anyone know why Japan kisses US's azz so much? It is because they know they are ALL DEAD!!!

I hope when I die I get reincarnated into a Middle Kingdom general in charge of containing Tokyo in WWIII. You will think Nanjing is child's play.

Whether the Japanese say they 'didn't do it' or 'killed only 80000' or 'killed only 2' in Nanjing is irrelevant. Either way, the Japanese race will be erased in the next century.

On this note, I have been posting some harsh comments on the US, which is somewhat uncalled for. We have to thank the US for nuking Japan for us and saving our collective azzes. Yes, it is true, in many ways, US deserves its hemegeny today.

[edit on 5-2-2005 by evilwun]

Can i just point out how incredibly familiar the last post sounded like hitler, "we will crush the jews!".
Why do the chinese get so hung up on all the death and want to cause more!
Why cant we just forget the past sins and work towards makeing a better world, or is that too insane to consider.
Statements like...
"We cant work with him because he's a jap and he will betray us!" or "We cant trust her she's black!" or "She's a muslin she might be a terrorist!" are all born out of hypocrocy and fear, fear of the unkown....that unkown is peace.

We have been around from 5 millinium, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK WE ARE GOING AWAY like the romans, the greeks, etc.

One day you will discover that our advantage is not that we are the smartest, strongest, what not. It is that we are bounddc by a common thread to survive, and expand, and defend against those that want to conquer us. One day, when we touch down on US home soil. When that day comes, it your children's .

You have been invaded and conquered a number of times in your history by very small nations. You've neither survived, or fought harder than anyone else in history. You've spent a lot of your history divided. You've really survived no better then the Greeks or Romans. Their blood is probably still as strong in Europe as the original Chinese blood actually is in China. Your claims of being the longest lasting civillization are barely half-true.