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U.S. vs. China

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posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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I would like to educate you on the current affairs in China. Here's the first one:

THERE IS NO COMMUNISM IN CHINA. Yup. The party is called the "Communist Party", and they spread propaganda about it al the time, but no one actually believes it. Now with that out of the way, you should probably realize a statement like "your country's people probably wont like sideing with a country that rejected comunism, most likely your gov will think: " They must be taught the ways of comunsim (COUGH BS COUGH)" " is at the height of ignorance.

Secondly, your argument of "attitudes can change quickly" actually serves to strengthen my argument of "past disputes b/w Russia and China do not matter". Sure they've fought before, but like you said "attitudes can change quickly", and now with a common foe in the U.S., they HAVE changed quickly.

Oh, and to say Russia doesn't have to worry about the U.S. is just ludicrous. With the advancement of NATO toward the Russian border, and the U.S. squeezing Russian influence in the Balkans, the U.S. have and will continue make inroads toward Russia. It is of the U.S. interest to see every nation much much weaker than themselves.




posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by dingyibvs
I would like to educate you on the current affairs in China. Here's the first one:

THERE IS NO COMMUNISM IN CHINA. Yup. The party is called the "Communist Party", and they spread propaganda about it al the time, but no one actually believes it. Now with that out of the way, you should probably realize a statement like "your country's people probably wont like sideing with a country that rejected comunism, most likely your gov will think: " They must be taught the ways of comunsim (COUGH BS COUGH)" " is at the height of ignorance.

At last! Some one that agrees with me!
I know there is no comunism in china its called it but its really just a police state!


Secondly, your argument of "attitudes can change quickly" actually serves to strengthen my argument of "past disputes b/w Russia and China do not matter". Sure they've fought before, but like you said "attitudes can change quickly", and now with a common foe in the U.S., they HAVE changed quickly.

Its harder to make friends out of enemies than to make enemies out of friends.


Oh, and to say Russia doesn't have to worry about the U.S. is just ludicrous. With the advancement of NATO toward the Russian border, and the U.S. squeezing Russian influence in the Balkans, the U.S. have and will continue make inroads toward Russia. It is of the U.S. interest to see every nation much much weaker than themselves.

Omg now you think that NATO is pushing russian words huh?
Want to know what forces are in bosnia now?
The RAF operate merlins out of a civie airbase, thats it helicopters.
No jet fighters just infantry and choppers.
The recent NATO hype is gone, take our decreaseing in military spending?
In the cold war we had 4 carriers, now we have 3 ageing going out of service ships!



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:27 PM
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BTW, my posts sometimes contain some pretty heated messages, just so you guys know, I don't mean to offend anyone with some of my harsh words.

With that said, I'd like to point out that a LOT of arguments between Chinese and Americans on this forum is more due to cultural differences than many realize. One thing that may seem automatic to an American may see ludicrous to a Chinese.

I think many posters here perceive a conflict between China and the U.S. due to their history and such. I have to say that this is NOT the case. China has been around for millenia, and has had wars against every single neighbor(kinda unavoidable given 2000+ years), Russia is just like any other neighbor with China. There's no special hatred or love for them, they're not much different from other neighbors. Since all of your assumptions hinge on China being the aggressor, then let me lend you some insight into the Chinese psyche: They're MUCH more anti-U.S. than they are anti-Russia. I cannot speak for Russians, but since you believe China will be the one to initiate the conflict, if China doesn't initiate it with Russia, then it won't happen.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:33 PM
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The fact of the matter is: U.S. is the strongest country in the world, and weaker countries who wish to become the strongest one some day unite against the stronger countries THROUGHOUT history. It is just the smarter thing to do. By virtue of being the world's only true superpower, the U.S. is wearing a target on its back.

I repeat, everyone on this board knows that if China were to fight Russia, it is equivalent to suicide. I'm sure the Chinese officials realize that too, so they will try anything to solve their energy problems BUT fight against the Russians. Unless you can somehow justify suicide, I consider this case closed.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:37 PM
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I dont think Russia will fight china but i dont believe they will be allying up if the US goes on another little war.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:49 PM
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The US is able to invade China, but it would have to be very well orchestrated and hidden from public view. US forces couldn't really launch beach head strikes because the Chinese seaboard is pretty well-fortified. US forces would have to enter through the Asian countries, which is not very feasible without force. Forgive the pun, but the Chinese have lots of experience keeping barbarians out over the thousands of years..

Of course it would need to be hidden and well orchestrated, thats a given when fighting an equal or larger enemy and china is not very experienced at naval warfare or coastal defense so your wrong here about a coastal invasion, their seaboard isnt very fortified like you think because really a sea invasion is unlikely to occur by anyone, its like during their war with japan where the japanese dominated the coasts of china, our navy is more advanced and larger, i'd say the naval situation today is slightly more advantageous for china than it was against japan in the 30's and 40's, they have barely any experience against anyone on their coast.

Yes, in the short term. But lets not forget that China's military isn't just people with bows and arrows; they have a pretty modern military, as well. Also, the Chinese would be more motivated to fight because they are on the defensive. In the long term, the technological superiority may be rendered useless, because not only do the Chinese forces have many technological applications that are designed to specifically counterattack US tech, but they also have the superior culturual upbringing that will eventually assure them victory.


youre wrong, the firepower and tech will be helpful long term, on an offensive war it would make chinese try to concentrate forces which would be a big mistake and masses of soldiers would be bombed and if they tried to spread forces out our troops would have a number and firepower advantage and organised guerilla warfare is just not going to work in a military structure, i'd highly doubt the ability of their guerilla tactics untill their military becomes less controlling of guerilla force structure and culture is not going to effect war, japan fought much harder than china would and used similar tactics china claims it'll use and we defeated japan.

Not very effective, because both Russia and China have been watching the US throw its military around. They both have been working around the clock to improve their air defenses, and they both know the heavy reliance the US places upon its forces in the sky. This would have to be a war won by land and sea, and not by Shekinaw/Shock-and-awe tactics.

uh you suggest abandoning our strongest asset because china observes how we use air assets? i think you are crazy to suggest this, in war you use your strongest assets you dont revert to your weaker assets, you change tactics yes but you dont abandon force structure if its your best asset in war.

Most likely yes, because the government could easily impose a universal draft, though I doubt that they would need to. They already have the largest army in the world.

i agree most would fight especially if they felt they had a chance to win or create a stalemate.

No. They are barely holding onto Iraq which is defended by 1980's style guerrilla warfare.

i addressed this in my second response.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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The fact of the matter is: U.S. is the strongest country in the world, and weaker countries who wish to become the strongest one some day unite against the stronger countries THROUGHOUT history. It is just the smarter thing to do. By virtue of being the world's only true superpower, the U.S. is wearing a target on its back.


! You think the Russians are fools? They know the next to rise to at least U.S. level power will be china. china is also on the Russian boarder. You put 2 and 2 together... You conflict yourself in your post.

None the less, if the Russians where to be so easily fooled then the whole of S.E. Asia, as well as the NATO countries that would certainly be invaded would fiercely fight back.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 06:11 PM
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The Russians might be concerned of the rise of the chicops (chinese policestate, not COMMUNISM
) but I think the chinese leaders will continually try to ease the tensions with economical carrots while at the same time they could point at the usa stick policy that awaits them if both countries are devestated by a china russian war.

My personal guess is that the carrots wins from the stick in this case....

But I could be wrong, things get critical between 2015-2020 because
- china would start developing internal market, less depencancy on US
- chinses would seriously start closing the technological millitary gaps on russia/us with homemade stuff
- oilwars in Africa would start. coups in south amercia etc...



[edit on 27-12-2004 by Countermeasures]

[edit on 27-12-2004 by Countermeasures]



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 06:15 PM
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Maybe... In the end Russians havent proven to be that desperate or foolish in the past. Any after china is devastated all the cheap labor will pour into Russia... Russia isnt stupid.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 06:49 PM
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A little history lessons to all you posters. China has a history of 5000 years, the Xia dynasty was when the first ever recorded document of government formed in central China ruling villages and has a capital city and a money system. The first time China has ever united as a whole was 2000 years ago (the time period of the movie HERO). Countless times before each smaller nation tried to beat out neighboring nation and rule central China but Qin Shi Huang (the emporer of Qin dynasty) was the first one who was able to do it.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 07:09 PM
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Of course Russia realizes that China will be their greatest threat sooner or later. After all, a superpower right next to your border is more threatening than a superpower across an ocean. However, UNTIL China has achieved that status, the U.S. will be the main threat. It's of Russian interest to keep BOTH China AND United States as weak as possible, so in the case of war between the U.S. and China, Russia will help whichever side that has an advantage, thereby preventing the war from being decisive and maximize the damage to BOTH China AND the U.S.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 07:59 PM
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wow....i gave up on about 5 pages, but this has to be the most interesting half an hour of reading ive ever had. Anyway i registered so i can post my opinions, and im gonna make it short and simple.

First of all, i'd like to say im Chinese, but lives in Australia

1) War betwee USA and China is bad for all

War between USA and China with nukes is REALLY bad for all


2) In a fair fight - ie fighter vs fighter, marine vs marine, China gets whooped. But the gap is closing.

3) USA will not be able to conquer China, and China will not be able to conquer USA, in a war for conquering, it will be a big stalemate.


4) USA can significantly weaken China's millitary power, infastracture, economy etc, but will the gain ouweigh the political and social consquences? Probably not.

5) Ive been living here for a while now (Australia), and I think Australia and China gets alone quite well. And in a case of a US - China war, im pretty sure Australia will stay out of it, well at least thats what the people want (look at the war on terror for example).


I dont know if its been mentioned in some of the later posts, but what if the US, with their FBI, CIA or whateva creates a little sceneario to frame China, and put them in bad light, and therefore have an excuse to attack. Im not as smart as these special agency people, but say:

Just in a period where China - taiwan tension is high, some special agents organises a little bmbing on some goverment agencies in Taiwan, kills alot of people. Everyone will ofcourse think it was the Chinese who launched the attack, and ofcourse, the big brother US of A will step in and save the day.

I am not as informed as some of the people in this forums, but i gather that the Gap between US and China is closing, and sometimes in the future, CHina willl overtake US...will they not? ANd if so, what will the US reaction be, if they are not the #1 nation in the world.

Well i have to go somewhere now, interesting to see what you guys think. Like i said, im nto a whiz at this kinda stuff, its just what i think.

The most important thing i reckon is, I HOPE THERE WILL BE NO WAR BETWEEN US - CHINA, or any other nations. I like my life, it could be better, but it could be alot worse if nukes start dropping, and i have babies with 2 heads :S

Hope what ever people say here will never have any importance


Chensta



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 08:25 PM
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Oh dear god!!! You summed it all up! Great job...



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by chensta
wow....i gave up on about 5 pages, but this has to be the most interesting half an hour of reading ive ever had. Anyway i registered so i can post my opinions, and im gonna make it short and simple.

First of all, i'd like to say im Chinese, but lives in Australia

1) War betwee USA and China is bad for all

War between USA and China with nukes is REALLY bad for all


2) In a fair fight - ie fighter vs fighter, marine vs marine, China gets whooped. But the gap is closing.

3) USA will not be able to conquer China, and China will not be able to conquer USA, in a war for conquering, it will be a big stalemate.


4) USA can significantly weaken China's millitary power, infastracture, economy etc, but will the gain ouweigh the political and social consquences? Probably not.

5) Ive been living here for a while now (Australia), and I think Australia and China gets alone quite well. And in a case of a US - China war, im pretty sure Australia will stay out of it, well at least thats what the people want (look at the war on terror for example).


I dont know if its been mentioned in some of the later posts, but what if the US, with their FBI, CIA or whateva creates a little sceneario to frame China, and put them in bad light, and therefore have an excuse to attack. Im not as smart as these special agency people, but say:

Just in a period where China - taiwan tension is high, some special agents organises a little bmbing on some goverment agencies in Taiwan, kills alot of people. Everyone will ofcourse think it was the Chinese who launched the attack, and ofcourse, the big brother US of A will step in and save the day.

I am not as informed as some of the people in this forums, but i gather that the Gap between US and China is closing, and sometimes in the future, CHina willl overtake US...will they not? ANd if so, what will the US reaction be, if they are not the #1 nation in the world.

Well i have to go somewhere now, interesting to see what you guys think. Like i said, im nto a whiz at this kinda stuff, its just what i think.

The most important thing i reckon is, I HOPE THERE WILL BE NO WAR BETWEEN US - CHINA, or any other nations. I like my life, it could be better, but it could be alot worse if nukes start dropping, and i have babies with 2 heads :S

Hope what ever people say here will never have any importance


Chensta


I agree with all of that, except the notion that "China will overtake the U.S." I think more appropriate would be, "China will close the gap eventually." There's lots they'd have to do first, like establish bases around the world, learn how to operate their air force and anvy ,learn how to operate subs in warfighting, and carriers, etc.....



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 09:42 PM
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I didnt see the part about china overtaking the USA but given enough time they could have the power of the USA. Whether the world will trust them or not, I dont know... Who knows, we might all be working together in the 60-100 years it takes.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 09:51 PM
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How did we get into the Russia stuff anyway. Simply put, there won't be a direct confrontation between any 2 of the 3 powers, because either way it'll end in nuclear war and will be bad for everyone on the planet.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 12:31 AM
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If there were a war, no one would use nukes because it would be self-defeating. The whole theory of MAD doesn't prevent war, just the use of nukes.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 01:21 AM
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If you are losing a war badly,who will just stay put and watch? China will nuke the USA if China was decimated in the war,same goes the other way round. MAD is to prevent all that in the early stages of war.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 01:21 AM
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I think its a point grab when your topic is "US vs. China", because everyone wants to put in there 2 cents.

The United States wont go to war with China, nor would China go to war with the US. Enough said.



posted on Dec, 28 2004 @ 02:51 AM
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Losing a war, and having your people wiped off the face of the Earth are not the same. No one is going to fire nukes at another nuclear country.



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