It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

U.S. vs. China

page: 28
1
<< 25  26  27    29  30  31 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 12:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by Nox

Originally posted by theguyver
Yes, thanks to the help of Taiwan who transfered Industrial machinery, technology, and know-how. In fact a recent study shows that about 40% of China's exports are the result of Taiwanese companies, and Thank Taiwan China has... by pointing over 600 missles at their "compatriots." Thanks guys!


Sorry for being a master of the obvious, but...

the economic relationship between Taiwan and China is symbiotic. You're trying to make it sound like it is parasitic, which it is not.


It is symbiotic only in the sense that both benefit from it. However, in the case of a severance of relationship between the two countries, China's economy would be hurt very little because most of the Taiwanese companies are already operating in China to take advantage of the cheap labor, thus the owners of the Taiwanese companies, who are definitely mostly more capitalist than patriotic, could and would easily move their companies to the Mainland. Also, since many of those Taiwanese industrialists already have residences established on the Mainland, it wouldn't even be much of a transition for them either.


The "freedom" and "human rights" things is severely overblown by the Americans also. Most Chinese people could care less about those essentially useless ideals as long as they make money. This is one of the major cultural differences between the West and China. They've lived for over 2 millenia under dictators, they can't miss what they've never had right?

Besides, it's not like they can't criticize their government. It's true that they cannot do it at government buildings or tourist attractions(like the Tiananmen square), but most people criticize the government loudly every day. In fact, it's become almost a pasttime in China, people sometimes get bored and just start trashing the Communist Party and its corrupt officials. However, that does not mean they don't love their country. This is demonstrated by Chinese who are in the U.S. are actually MORE patriotic than Chinese in China. They don't love their country any more than their compatriots in China, their national pride is simply invoked by all the Westerners surrounding them who are against China. The same thing would happen if there were to be a conflict between the U.S. and China. So don't expect there to be lackluster support for the government due to not having "freedom" or "human rights", patriotism will come before them.




posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 12:44 AM
link   
This discussion has been done far too many times in far too many threads.

A war between china and USA would probably not happen as it isnt in either of our interests. We for one are too economically tied.


Anyhow, the USAF is by far superior to the PLA AF, their subs would be slaughtered by US, JSDF, and the Royal Navies fleets and ASW aircraft,
One must also remember how easy it is to step on ant hills or throw M-80s on them; this is how the attacking aircraft with air dominance would see the chinese troop movements and supply lines.
Sure, there is strength in numbers but this strength is also a great weakness.
That isnt to say that some allied units wouldnt get bogged down now and then, even with allied superior firepower one still has to expose himself to fire the weapon.

With the majority of the inaccurate chinese ICBM force pointed at Russia and a great deal of Russian ICBMs pointed at china we will see a chinese-Russian conflict. They are going at it all the time they can. These arms sales are because china has the money and Russia has the weapons. When china can no longer sufficiently get resources-oil it will try to bully Russia for its. This will no doubt be a deadly mistake and Russia will glass them. I see the U.S. intervening with Russian aid as we dont like their growing threat nor do our allies in S.E. Asia.
When china goes after Russia it will se the whole world crashing down at them.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:05 AM
link   
A war between the two won't happen, however, if it were to happen, the Chinese will not be able to go on the offensive. The U.S., however, also will not be able to conquer China. There are simply too many people to connquer, people who will not like being conquered. Also, Russia WILL assist China because it is in their interest to make the war as even as possible and thus weaken both the U.S. and China as much as possible. With that said, no side will be able to achieve complete victory, it'll probably end as a stalemate with the U.S. claiming they've checked the Chinese aggression while China claiming they've defeated the U.S. invaders.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:07 AM
link   
^ Not likely. Russia and china go at it all the time. When Russia forces the immigrants out or and when china trys to grab some resources Russia will destroy them.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:25 AM
link   
I meant assist as in military assistance, not assistance to refugees. There are no enemies or friends in international politics, there are only common interests and conflict of interests. In a war between China and the U.S., the U.S. clearly has the upper hand, so it is a common interest between China and Russia to hurt the U.S. as much as possible.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:41 AM
link   
Oh, I mean china and Russia going at it against each other. If you want to put best interest into things then its in the best interest of most, if not all of Asia, as well as India to off china. More then Russia and china could handle, however, something will set china and Russia off in the near future. Whether it be china going at their resources, china actually planting more of their troops on the Russian boarder, Russia ticking china off by forcing the 'refugees' out of Russia, or china pissing of Russia by 'obtaining' some of its more sensitive equipment or and duplicating their systems after only buying one sample. There is far more that can and most likely will go wrong between Russia and china.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:41 AM
link   
Wonder what India's stand would be on this one...Neutral or pro-US..?

Im sure the Indians wouldn't allow the US to operate from its territory but other covert assistance may be provided...Whta do you think guys?
IMHO Idnia should remain neutral



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:47 AM
link   
They would problably be pro-US/Asia just to get china off the map. Why not help take care of youre problem while you got a big group to back you up?

Also, why not let U.S. opperate from India, not that it would put a dent in our opperations or anything.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 01:19 PM
link   
Russians and the Chinese have a long history of troubles, but this is not the time. Those two are temporarily united against a common and bigger threat--the United States. China and Russia do not have as big of a conflict of interest as each country with the U.S. Russia competed with China some 40 years ago because they were one of the superpowers then, in which case everyone was a competitor. However, the U.S. is now the only superpower in the world, and the U.S. and its allies will be Russia AND China's biggest competitor, which is the unifying force between the two. If the U.S. crumbles somehow, the two will go at it again, but not before.

It would be foolish for Russia to compete against China right now because the U.S. will easily finish off the winner of the two after the two finished fighting. It would also be foolish for Russia to be neutral or to help the U.S. if the U.S. and China were ever to fight, because after the U.S. wins, the U.S. can easily move on to Russia and finish them off. However, if the Russians were to help China, and help them fight to a stalemate(note a stalemate, it would not be of their interest to help China win decisively), then both the U.S. and China would be greatly weakened and Russia will be in a better position to claim the seat of the lone superpower of the world.


There are also absolutely no basis of any of the claims that there are friction between the two countries. The ultimate indication is that competitors don't sell each other weapons, which the Russians and the Chinese conduct regularly.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 02:18 PM
link   
According to the latest reports, there are aproximately 16000 Russian military hardware designer, scientists and engineers working in China as China could provide them with better work, more challenges, better resources and more Moolah in their pockets.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 02:20 PM
link   
WHAT?
Ok now you are makeing it sound like they view the US as an enemy.
China? okey i understand.
Russia? WHA?
Russia doesnt have any real money in their military, the shape they are in is quite good considering the lack of funds but its no where near what would be needed for a US fight.
China and Russia hate each other and always have.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 02:32 PM
link   
I have great tendency to agree devilwasp, but with Russia and China, despite their inward hate of each other, business is business. Russia's lacking for funds has driven them to selling anything and everything to the Chinese, among others...




seekerof



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 02:35 PM
link   
Exactly, neither country is of any reasonable match to the U.S., that's why the U.S. is their biggest threat right now.

Also, that "this country hates that country" thing simply doesn't exist between complex governments. Like I've said before, there are only conflict of interests and comon interests. For example, China and Vietnam were friends for a long time and China even assisted Vietnam greatly in the Vietnam War, but the two countries quickly turned against each other and waged a war that resulted in over 40,000 soldiers dead when a conflict of interest arose merely 4 years after the conclusion of the Vietnam war.

Also, what basis do you have to say the Chinese hate the Russians or vice versa? I have lived in China for over a decade and know many Chinese people, not one of them hate the Russians, many actually like them for their military assistance. The only hatred Chinese people have for anyone is the Japanese. So if there is no ethnic hatred and their common interest outweight their conflict of interest, why would they fight each other?



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 03:04 PM
link   


Also, what basis do you have to say the Chinese hate the Russians or vice versa? I have lived in China for over a decade and know many Chinese people, not one of them hate the Russians, many actually like them for their military assistance. The only hatred Chinese people have for anyone is the Japanese. So if there is no ethnic hatred and their common interest outweight their conflict of interest, why would they fight each other?


The chinese dont hate the Russians they are just 'going after their best interest'. That is their land, resources, and technology. Russia sees this and has commented on it. They have boarder disputes all the time. Is they werent worry about the chinese they wouldnt have a large % of their usable nuclear arsenal pointed towards china.
And like I pointed out before, the Russians sell the chinese weapons because they have the money and Russia has the weapons, nothing more. You'd think that they would be buying allot more if they felt neutral about each other, no?

Anyway, look for an Asia, Russia, USA against china alliance in the near future. It's inevitable and in everyones best interest to keep them in check, especially the rest of Asia.

You ot-to read deeper into this



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 03:31 PM
link   
It's quite an absurd assertion, it would be much easier for China to obtain their resources elsewhere than to risk a conflict with Russia. In fact, China is doing exactly that. They're exploring ways to secure the South China Sea and its rich oil fields. It's quite ignorant to state that it would be of China's interest to fight against the Russians for resources. The U.S. also needs resources don't they? Why don't they fight the Russians for it. Oh yea, there are better alternatives for them than a nuclear war. So what makes you think that China is so dumb as not to realize that? The Germans had the weapons, and the U.S. had the money, why didn't I see massive weapons trade between them during or immediately preceding WWII?

It's absolute stupidity to even attempt to rationalize weapons trade against a what you claim to be the greatest threat. This'll be the last time I'll respond to such thoughtless garbage, I have better things to waste my time on.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 04:15 PM
link   
If you where in the situation such as Russia any country would do the same. They are saving the best for themselves.

china can obtain some resources form other places but put 2 and 2 together. They have a massive population that is only growing and industrializing. They are requiring resources multiple times more per every few years.

The proof is in the seeing. People I know from Russia have said exactly the same thing. Im fortunate enough to know people from both Russia and china but the Chinese people know little about the matter.

Anyhow, your failure to be informed doesnt make the situation absurd... No skin off my back.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 04:31 PM
link   

They're exploring ways to secure the South China Sea and its rich oil fields


Yea, they're also pissing off the Japanese at the same time. I wouldn't call those oil fields rich, either. They're drops in a pan.

And China is desperate for material. There's a reason they're allowing Brazil to rip them off for a small amount of oil.

They have to cut power at times because they don't have enough energy to keep their growht up.


The U.S. also needs resources don't they?


America has secured itself all the oil in the Middle East. We have friendly goverments throughout the region, plus a powerful military presence.

China does not have that luxury. They have an ever growing demand, and a very limited number of resources.


It's absolute stupidity to even attempt to rationalize weapons trade against a what you claim to be the greatest threat. This'll be the last time I'll respond to such thoughtless garbage, I have better things to waste my time on.


To an economy like Russia, it's a big deal. It's a huge part of their economy.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 04:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by dingyibvs
Exactly, neither country is of any reasonable match to the U.S., that's why the U.S. is their biggest threat right now.

China needs to up its navy and airforce then it will be on par with the US.



Also, that "this country hates that country" thing simply doesn't exist between complex governments. Like I've said before, there are only conflict of interests and comon interests. For example, China and Vietnam were friends for a long time and China even assisted Vietnam greatly in the Vietnam War, but the two countries quickly turned against each other and waged a war that resulted in over 40,000 soldiers dead when a conflict of interest arose merely 4 years after the conclusion of the Vietnam war.

Attitudes can change quickly and deadly, i see the world as a big playground of kids. These countries act like kids and have similar ideas on treaties and allies. A common enemy will bring enemies together.
That being said , the russians have nothing to fear. What have they done to piss off the americans? Nothing, they are sorted.


Also, what basis do you have to say the Chinese hate the Russians or vice versa? I have lived in China for over a decade and know many Chinese people, not one of them hate the Russians, many actually like them for their military assistance. The only hatred Chinese people have for anyone is the Japanese. So if there is no ethnic hatred and their common interest outweight their conflict of interest, why would they fight each other?

You have had border clashes for years, your country's people probably wont like sideing with a country that rejected comunism, most likely your gov will think: " They must be taught the ways of comunsim (COUGH BS COUGH)"



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:00 PM
link   
I guess I cannot resist the urge to correct some of your mistakes, now let's see the obvious one:

China CANNOT defeat Russia in a nuclear war, that is simply an impossibility. So why would they choose the SURER way to death(nuke war with Russia and/or the U.S.) over less sure way(exploring other methods)? Please enlighten me on this one.

The Bottom line is this: Fighting with Russia = Suicide. So please, PLEASSSSEEEE tell me how you're going to justify suicide.

Also, ChrisRT, I don't have nearly as many Russian contacts as Chinese ones, however, since your prediction is based on the premise of the Chinese being the aggressor, and I know of no Chinese who even fathoms it, it will not happen.



posted on Dec, 27 2004 @ 05:01 PM
link   
Estimated 120 million cars would be drinking gasoline by 2020 in China, that means worldwide friction about resources will keep rising....

Despite new large discoveries of oil in December in China Western provences, it can hardly keep up with demand...

The Chinese president paid visits to Venezuela and to Gabon to talk about oil.

Especially Africa is bound to become a scene where China, America and europe will do a lot of armwrestling. Historically Africa has been walking around with a huge KICK ME and ROB ME sign. After the cold war ended africa was temporarily forgotten, but new oildiscoveries in a heated market shift back the attention of the world...

We gonna see bananarepublics and dirty war scenes of the cold-war era all over again in Africa, only this time not 2 but at least 3 large factions will be fighting over the loot...

Also Iran is becoming as vital to china as saoudi-arabia is to the usa, I wouldn't be surprised if china already supplied some nukes to iran and silently communicated this to Washington to deter a full scale American ground invasion.



[edit on 27-12-2004 by Countermeasures]




top topics



 
1
<< 25  26  27    29  30  31 >>

log in

join