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U.S. vs. China

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posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 02:40 AM
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from what i have read:

: the chinese military is well out of date: 1 point u.s.a.

: china has the largest military in the world: 1 pt. china

: u.s.a. controls the seas: 1 pt. u.s.a.

: china is the one defending, tough to launch an assault on a country the size of china: 1 point china

: u.s.a. controls the skies: 1 point u.s.a.


Their is no question that the u.s.a would strike chinas military units first and communications and stuff of that nature second. i mean you have to put the clamps on what can really hurt you, and that would be sam bases, anit-aircraft units and most definately the submarines, oh and most definately their nuclear sites and silos. these would be the units that would downright put the hurtin on the u.s.a. so if we can sit here and look at numbers and statistics about how many land, air, and naval units each country has or at least has reported. then you know the military knows of these issues. they will undoubtadley launch their attacks on these units first, i mean from what you guys are saying you would have to. then, let the battleship and b-2 bombings begin. and then my friends it is all over. The u.s.a. could neutralize china for the most part without stepping one foot onto its soil. But we all know it is war and nothing in war goes as planned 100%, but you have to keep that number as high as possible to be successful and more important keep soldier casulties as low as possible. the u.s.a. will not go into a ground war with china. there is no possible way that they would do that. that would be committing suicide. And if war ever broke out with china it would be the single most biggest one on one war ever launched. It would be downright madness and confusion. it would put a hurting on both economies. and as far as people saying that china could put all of its money to military because they dont have to pay college tuition remimburstment and healthcare and all of that stuff. the u.s.a. would most likely put all of their money into war as well with the exception of the healthcare. they would have to keep that. all grants and stuff like that would be done with. no highway repairs, no new highways being built. etc., etc. so with all of that said, i am no expert on this stuff, but from what i have read and taken in, this would be my opinion. Bottom line. whoever launces a attack first with epic proportions will neutralize their apponent and nonetheless take total control of the war and go on to victory. but i will tell you this. the u.s.a. will not just bring an iraqi amount of troops and hardware. it would have to go all out. im talking the mother load. the farm, they would have to bring the bank. so whoever strikes first wins.




posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 03:40 AM
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Originally posted by Killak420

Originally posted by Laxpla

Originally posted by Killak420
Okay I have been reading this thread for a couple hours now and I am not going to finish it so I would just like to state a couple of things.

1.I read an article some where (I cant remember where) that said that China has developed laser weapons. Lasers that can be fitted on to a tanks or air planes that can shoot down incoming missiles and nukes. they said that these new weapons will be in service with in the next couple of years.
I also know that the US are working on similar weapons(thanks to the Discovery Channel)
2. Some one said that China imports most of its weapons from Russia.That use to be true but now since the last two gulfwars and the war in afganistan China has rapidly been developing there own weapons to match US made weapons.
3.When the worlds economy was in trouble a couple of years ago when SARS was around (im talking about the US and the European im not sure about Japans).China had the strongest in the world at that time
4.Taiwan has stated there statistics in a China invasion of there country and it was stated that they would only put up a five day fight before China will have total control of there country.
5. You people have forgotten that China also has submarines patroling there sea borders and the rest of the Pacific. Dont you think if the US attemts an invasion that there submarines and the rest of there navy would not destroy must of the American fleet after all the US does not have the Strongest Navy in the world I beleive that the Brits have that one.
6. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THE UNITED STATES WOULD EVER WIN A WAR WITH CHINA. Mainly because the US does not have the founding or the capability to wage a massive strike against the biggest military in the world(I did not say strongest).
7. The only way that the US will win is if they have allies. They cannot win 1 on 1 and even if they do have allies and its only China vs the allies it would be extremely hard to win. But if China has allies such as Russia,India, or North Korea then there would be no way the US led coalition would win.
8. Also watch out for a close tie between China and India cause if those 2 countrys decide to take over the world it will happen no matter what you think.


1. I read an article some where (I cant remember where) that said that China has developed laser weapons. Lasers that can be fitted on to a tanks or air planes that can shoot down incoming missiles and nukes. they said that these new weapons will be in service with in the next couple of years.

Really? Show me a proving article and I will believe.



4.Taiwan has stated there statistics in a China invasion of there country and it was stated that they would only put up a five day fight before China will have total control of there country.

Taiwan yah maby, Taiwan and USA. The opposite way around




5. You people have forgotten that China also has submarines patroling there sea borders and the rest of the Pacific. Dont you think if the US attemts an invasion that there submarines and the rest of there navy would not destroy must of the American fleet after all the US does not have the Strongest Navy in the world I beleive that the Brits have that one.

Okay, you think we havn't though about that? The British have gone though many wars with us, you think they wont take them out? USA and Britian have experience, China hasn't had a recent war.




6. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THE UNITED STATES WOULD EVER WIN A WAR WITH CHINA. Mainly because the US does not have the founding or the capability to wage a massive strike against the biggest military in the world(I did not say strongest).



In a non-nuke war, after out Anti ballistic missle systems are up? We were in the GREAT DEPRESSION and won WW2 with our allies. Both sides will be patriotic and start building and supporting the army.
It brings a point, Rods of god will take out communications to disrupt the people of TV's and radios.

7. The only way that the US will win is if they have allies. They cannot win 1 on 1 and even if they do have allies and its only China vs the allies it would be extremely hard to win. But if China has allies such as Russia,India, or North Korea then there would be no way the US led coalition would win.

The best military in the world, taking on a lower level military? are you crazy 1 on 1? We have the experience to fight wars, China's last war was....


Heh, think about this, USA, BRITIAN, TAIWAN, SOUTH KOREA, JAPAN, AUSTRALIA, ISREAL, SPAIN, MABY FRANCE and GERMANY, and many other nations.




8. Also watch out for a close tie between China and India cause if those 2 countrys decide to take over the world it will happen no matter what you think.

Your joking right? China and India? First, USA and Britians airforce with B-2, Eurofighter, F-22 will wipe out there air, british sas and seals will destroy there command centers. Man the list goes on..

[edit on 10-11-2004 by Laxpla]




1. wnd.com...


2. No. It would be impossible to take China in 5 days the US probably with enough people.

3. This war is between the US and China not Britain and China oh I forgot the US cant win a war unless it has allies.
4. Okay you won world war 2 because of Russia and thats it case close dont try to fight it. The Chinese will take out US servalance and Intercept all missile strikes towards them mean while anialating the US Navy with there subs at the same time they would also be invading Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Guam and Hawai for staging areas to counter attack the US on there own soil.
5. Examples of the best military in the world loosing to the weaker 3rd world military.........North Korea and the Vietnam war. Oh and I forgot to mention that the US won there Independance from the British who had the worlds greatest military at the time. So stop with the Ignorance.

6.HEH, Think about this China,India,Russia,North Korea half of the worlds population Rushing threw the boarders and stumping of the coastlines of these already devastated countrys after the first Nuclear,Biological and Chemical bombs are droped on there citys wiping out 3/4's of there population only to meet a weak resistance.

7.No im not with the first deployment of Nuclear weapons succesfully destroying the US, Britain and Pakistan the rest of the world shall fall to there knees and Except the New World as an Easton Dominated world.


The 21st century belongs to the Eastern nations the West has had its turn now its time for the East to reak havok on the World.


The Eastern nations? The Western European nations are still more powerful than the Eastern nations combined, other than maybe China. And that is just Europe. There is also the United States and Canada too even.

The 21st century belongs to no one really. It is a different world out there now.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by poirot
And YES, US Navy is the best nowadays. Britain ruling the seas? This was in the XIX century

we rule at ASW operations.
we ARE NATO's ASW unit. plain and simple.
US takes air control we handle any nasty little subs that come our way.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 08:05 AM
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Sorry if I am posting stuff here already said.


Anyway, Im with the people that reackon it will be a stalemate, no winners here. 2 superpowers clash and lock Horns, no-one wins. US Air Supermacy? Hmm, China is apparently buying some SU-30MK's, which, only happen to be the best fighters of Today. Hence, Air battle is *not* Conclusive. Seas? Yes, Britain still owns the Sea's, don't kid yourself, we have the best subs, as the Russian Typhoons are sadly underfunded and a bit dead now, so we are the Kings of undersea. Our floating fleet is a bit small now.
But, think of it, look at Britains political situation now. We want to Impeach Blair over Iraq, so there is NO way that the British public wouild ever condone a war with China. I think it would be enough to get anyone in charge here overthrown. Our Military is jsut to under-funded to do it now, and in *desperate* need of some updates to our equipment. Our comms system doesn't work, our rifles are #e, the Armoured bit works though. So I think it would be a one-on-one US -vs- China battle. Technology -vs- Sheer Might and Numbers. And don't put China down just yet, I think you may find getting your bombs and missiles actually TO the Silo's is the challenge. The Chinese air defence isn't as bad as it seems, Yeah, an old MiG-29 ain't great, but it is still the world best dogfighter. All it needs to do is get close enough, and dodging long range missiles is usually -relatively- easy for a good pilot, as opposed to a dogfight.

Remember also, that the Chinese don't fight by the rules, but the minute the US break them, the news papers go MAD! So tehy don't want a bad rep like in 'Nam, as this would cripple the war effort as the folks at home would have a Bad view of the Western Soldiers. This is a very limiting factor, bloody rules of engagement, if the enemy don't follow them, why do we have to?

And also, the US isn't likely to go to war with China, it knows it will be difficult. No offence or anything, but why are most countries on Bush's list weak and nearly defenceless against the US? CUBA? WTF? And If anything, lets solve the N. Korea problem, China -isn't- really a problem, is it? And some *pease* Explain the Cuba on the Axis of Evil thing? What are they doing? They make Cigars and thats about it. We don't want another Bay of Pigs incident.



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 08:24 AM
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I would only like to point out that a much smaller country, Japan was able to conquer a large portion of China with only moderate difficulty. They would probably have seized the entire mainland if it was not for a U.S. funded low level guerrilla war. (Anyone remember the Flying Tigers?).

The political situation at the time of the war would determine who wins. If China is fractured with say, another revolution, then the U.S. might win much more handily than you think.

If China is unified and somewhat politically stable then I think it would be fairly hard to attempt an invasion. However, Japan and Taiwan would be excellent allies. Even Mongolia, Russia and India have ugly border disputes that they would like to resolve.

Number of troops can actually be a hindrance in modern warfare. So large troop formations mean little. It takes time for a soldier to know how to operate a tank and even more time to be trained to operate a tank usefully and even MORE time to learn to operate a tank effectively in combat. Modern weapons pretty much render mass drafts ineffective.

Chinese peasants cannot take up arms because of the thousands of years their various governments have spent making sure they dont have access to weapons.

China has been conquered pretty regularly throughout its history by much smaller forces. Their sheer mass tends to help them throw the invaders out at a later date. It would take genocide to effectively occupy that land mass. I think Japan had come to that conclusion towards the middle of WWII, which you can see by their actions (bio-warfare, mass executions, I think they even decimated entire cities as well).



posted on Nov, 24 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Um, hate to point out hte obvious, but China is ALOT stronger now that back then. Nearly The whole world was conquered by Britain, but its a shame to say we couldn't do it now. If we went on who was best by past performances, Britain would have everyone quaking in their boots!


Politically, China is now strong, their economy is thriving, and people's general situation is getting better, so most chinese people are *probably* Happy. And Russian tech tanks are relatively simple to use yet effective as well when compared to high tech American ones. Although yes, plenty of training is needed to use a tank, but I daresay china has plenty of trained tank crews. And China could conscript large numbers of people is necessary, but so can any reasonably in control Government in the world. Hell, if the Americans invaded us, I would sign up and fight, it may be that I don't agree with the government, but I would fight for it rather than be conquered by someone else! I would, however, ditch the SA-80 for an M-16 first chance I got...



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 09:19 PM
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Everyone is talking about defeating China in a NK situation, why? If China did get involved they would not throw every soldier they have into battle. Mainly because its not logisticly possible. Second the U.S. is not that dumb, sorry. The efforts by the Chinese to support NK would most likely be logistical so a war between the two would seem unlikley.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 09:35 PM
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ROTC Guy,

That's what I keep telling everyone else. A war with China or North Korea is so unlikely. It's too much to lose, little to gain for both sides.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 09:56 PM
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Oh yah, the pictures of the chinese weapons shown mid-thread aren't for the most part Chinese. The ship is a Canadian Halifax class, the SU-30 is Russian, and the SAM has a russian in uniform standing in front of it. So pictures are worth 1000 words, they say your sources are BS.



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 10:01 PM
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as long as American donot let extreme right wing people stay in the power, basically there is NO fundermental conflict between China and USA.

while, if they stay in the government, those christian fundamentalism people are just same as mulism fundamentalism.........

most chinese donot believe Jesus (1/5 of human beings)---------for those christian fundamentalism, that can be very strong temptation for war.


[edit on 8-12-2004 by proteinx]



posted on Dec, 8 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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I believe in Jesus,and i am Chinese and Christian.

Want some real links to chinese military equipment?try out www.sinodefence.com


This topic was dead,but lets keep discussing anyway.

China:

Air:China has around 100 Su-27s,which is considered to be a rival to the F-15 by many.It also has 100+ Su-30s,the first 76 to be used for a fighter role,with the next 28 upgraded (Su-30 MKK2) for the Navy,as an anti-ship fighter-bomber.Its J-10 fighter is currently undergoing mass production.Its firepower is regarded to be the same as the F-16s,but with better manoverablility than the F-18 or the Typhoon


Its late now,will continue posting later.

[edit on 8/12/04 by W4rl0rD]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 02:57 AM
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Ok,time to continue.
China:

Sea:Fast attack craft,DDGs and Submarines will wreck the US Navy up.Both sides will have lots of casualties.

Land:In a conflict of this size,China would mobilize most of its forces to fight the enemy.What else can you expect from a huge army with good equipment using guerrila warfare but a war with huge losses?

USA:

Air:Aerial superiority,F-22s being used extensively.Stealth bombers to take out ground defenses and heavy bombers to be used extensively.Air defenses in China to be a problem.

Sea:Aircraft carriers and submarines to be used,heavy but prone to attack,frequent attacks from Chinese attack craft will keep them on their toes.

Land:A conventional attack is impossible.They sit and watch as the USAF pound the shores.When the shores are clear the US army moves in.Heavy losses to be expected too.



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by ROTC Guy
Oh yah, the pictures of the chinese weapons shown mid-thread aren't for the most part Chinese. The ship is a Canadian Halifax class, the SU-30 is Russian, and the SAM has a russian in uniform standing in front of it. So pictures are worth 1000 words, they say your sources are BS.



OMG....
What was that??More chinese misinformation??!!



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 08:27 AM
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Right now China's military is no match for the US or even the Russians for that matter. The US has the biggest airforce, most land vehicles and biggest navy, Russia is ranked second in all these categories but China does have the largest infantry force in the world. that said it's production compacity and not existing forces that would win a war, so China would beat Russia but probably not the US.

[edit on 9-12-2004 by Trent]



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by W4rl0rD
Ok,time to continue.
China:

Sea:Fast attack craft,DDGs and Submarines will wreck the US Navy up.Both sides will have lots of casualties.

Land:In a conflict of this size,China would mobilize most of its forces to fight the enemy.What else can you expect from a huge army with good equipment using guerrila warfare but a war with huge losses?

USA:

Air:Aerial superiority,F-22s being used extensively.Stealth bombers to take out ground defenses and heavy bombers to be used extensively.Air defenses in China to be a problem.

Sea:Aircraft carriers and submarines to be used,heavy but prone to attack,frequent attacks from Chinese attack craft will keep them on their toes.

Land:A conventional attack is impossible.They sit and watch as the USAF pound the shores.When the shores are clear the US army moves in.Heavy losses to be expected too.


Maybe in 50 years, in which wars will probably be fought different. In a current war, the U.S. Navy and Air Force would go through the Chinese like a grizzly bear through a bull.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by MrNice
I would only like to point out that a much smaller country, Japan was able to conquer a large portion of China with only moderate difficulty. They would probably have seized the entire mainland if it was not for a U.S. funded low level guerrilla war. (Anyone remember the Flying Tigers?).

The political situation at the time of the war would determine who wins. If China is fractured with say, another revolution, then the U.S. might win much more handily than you think.

If China is unified and somewhat politically stable then I think it would be fairly hard to attempt an invasion. However, Japan and Taiwan would be excellent allies. Even Mongolia, Russia and India have ugly border disputes that they would like to resolve.

Number of troops can actually be a hindrance in modern warfare. So large troop formations mean little. It takes time for a soldier to know how to operate a tank and even more time to be trained to operate a tank usefully and even MORE time to learn to operate a tank effectively in combat. Modern weapons pretty much render mass drafts ineffective.

Chinese peasants cannot take up arms because of the thousands of years their various governments have spent making sure they dont have access to weapons.

China has been conquered pretty regularly throughout its history by much smaller forces. Their sheer mass tends to help them throw the invaders out at a later date. It would take genocide to effectively occupy that land mass. I think Japan had come to that conclusion towards the middle of WWII, which you can see by their actions (bio-warfare, mass executions, I think they even decimated entire cities as well).


you do know that time China was plagued with war for the last sixty years. The whole population on drugs bought from the GB. We were weakened for one hundred years from bad Emporers and Emporer's grandmothers(Si Xi).



posted on Dec, 11 2004 @ 11:23 PM
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well, which ancient civilization doesn't have a period in which it suffers??? Only the up-start countries like the US doesn't understand the ups and downs of history due to your short existance. As long as there is civilization on earth, the Chinese culture and civilization will always be one of the most illustrious. Having periods of dark history is a part of history.



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
AceOfBase,

Glad you brought that up. As industrialized as China is, it has and still is a by-and-large agriculturally dominated nation.


Yes, thanks to the help of Taiwan who transfered Industrial machinery, technology, and know-how. In fact a recent study shows that about 40% of China's exports are the result of Taiwanese companies, and Thank Taiwan China has... by pointing over 600 missles at their "compatriots." Thanks guys!


Nox

posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by theguyver
Yes, thanks to the help of Taiwan who transfered Industrial machinery, technology, and know-how. In fact a recent study shows that about 40% of China's exports are the result of Taiwanese companies, and Thank Taiwan China has... by pointing over 600 missles at their "compatriots." Thanks guys!


Sorry for being a master of the obvious, but...

the economic relationship between Taiwan and China is symbiotic. You're trying to make it sound like it is parasitic, which it is not.



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 09:46 PM
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Sad to say, but China would when in the long run, espically before 2010 when the we/the U.S. get's it's "Star Wars" Missile Protection Program going, THEN WE ARE REALLY SCREWED IF BEFORE 2010!!!!!







 
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