I do not believe the US will go to open War with China if there is any way to avoid it. China will change and morph from within, not quite as the USSR did, but similar. China has been infected with a virus called Hong Kong, which has been Asia's bastion of Capitalism since the British established it.

China will move in the direction of capitalism while we unfortunately will move in the socialist direction in some ways. Eventually we will meet China half-way and find we don't have as many differences as we all thought.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
China has been infected with a virus called Hong Kong,

And what do you mean by this??

I think he means that the rest of the country will likely follow hong kongs lead

Yes, Hong Kong will infect the rest of China with capitalism, and if they ever get hold of Taiwan, it will just hasten the process that much more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist to the core. I say virus becasue that I think capitalism spreads in a similar way to a virus.

[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Ambient Sound]

American Mad Man,

You seem to be looking at it rather straightforward (from a all-out attempt to annihilate), but that's okay since that's how you laid it out.

So given your situation, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I agree that if we do fight China, we should bomb them into the 18th dimension. And it should not be for imperial purposes, but rather to destroy them. If your ONLY objective is to destroy them, then we win. If our objective is an "American" objective, we are in BIG trouble.

So in your scenario, we'd win, but realistically, the outcome is not good for us.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Yes, Hong Kong will infect the rest of China with capitalism, and if they ever get hold of Taiwan, it will just hasten the process that much more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist to the core. I say virus becasue that I think capitalism spreads in a similar way to a virus.

[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Ambient Sound]

China is actually quite capitalist.

When I said differences, I meant politically and culturally. As we've seen throughout history (but there can be new occurances), politics and culture in an unstable world can be a big factor, not just economics.

China is like America in some ways, very centric. While it is more isolationalist, it still believes it is superior to many other nations. America believes it is superior to the rest of the world (which in many ways is true), so while the beliefs aren't that different, the fact that they negate each country itself is grounds for some sort of confrontation.

I think the US will beat China but they would be very much weakend.

Originally posted by AD5673
I think the US will beat China but they would be very much weakend.

What does not kill you only makes you stronger.

This holds true to war as well. Assuming no nuclear war that is.

I don't think most people realize how important experience is in warfare. Training is all nice and well, but it is a completely different animal in a real war. Not only do your soldiers themselves improve, but commanders gain experience - they better understand they can do with their forces. Military tech also improves a lot - what do you think spured the creation of the atom bomb, radar, sonar ect ect.

Yes, the US would be weak for about 6 months to a year afterwords, but after that the military would be MUCH stronger.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
Yes, Hong Kong will infect the rest of China with capitalism, and if they ever get hold of Taiwan, it will just hasten the process that much more.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a capitalist to the core. I say virus becasue that I think capitalism spreads in a similar way to a virus.

[Edited on 14-4-2004 by Ambient Sound]

Thats cool i thought you meant another way

BTW guys i aint Chinese i am British i have just live d in Hong Kong for Most of my life.

hey drunk, how are the bars over there? I might go over this summer.

Cheap compared to other countries.

very nice

Can't wait for happy hour

Just a thing about the Chinese Navy that some of you might find interesting. I read in Time Magazine (March 29, 2004)that the US Naval War College in Rhode Island said that the Chinese navy, especially the submarines are a potent force and the US Pacific Fleet would have trouble dealing with the the Chinese forces.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
probably have F-117's and B-2's coming out of Australia.

I doubt that Australia would let the US use it as a base of operations. The issue of having US troops, planes etc. have come up in here in Australia many times and they haven't been received warmly at all.
I thin many people now still underestimate the strength of the Chinese Army/Air Force/Navy. Though some of it is still old, much of it has modernised.
Lets just hope that conflict between the US and China never eventuates.

Originally posted by D
Just a thing about the Chinese Navy that some of you might find interesting. I read in Time Magazine (March 29, 2004)that the US Naval War College in Rhode Island said that the Chinese navy, especially the submarines are a potent force and the US Pacific Fleet would have trouble dealing with the the Chinese forces.

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
probably have F-117's and B-2's coming out of Australia.

I doubt that Australia would let the US use it as a base of operations. The issue of having US troops, planes etc. have come up in here in Australia many times and they haven't been received warmly at all.
I thin many people now still underestimate the strength of the Chinese Army/Air Force/Navy. Though some of it is still old, much of it has modernised.
Lets just hope that conflict between the US and China never eventuates.

Australia would let us, heres why - If the US falls to Chinaa, then China can attack Australia with impunity. No offense to your military, but you guys don't have the man power to go up against that juggernaught.

True about the manpower. But who would really bother attacking Australia? First, it's a bit hard to ship a heap of men and equipment over without getting attacked by the RAAF. Even if it is small, it is highly trained and very professional. And if Australia was taken, there isn't exactly much strategic gain in terms of anything. You got a mass of desert with a few cities and towns along the coasts. There's also not much point in nuking any city in Australia cause as said earlier, there isn't that much to gain by taking Australia. There would be a lot of strain on any force just tyring to occupy Australia.

I honestly believe that China is the US version of the Arab's Israel bogeyman.
Americans seem to be raised with a deep fear of China and are very suspicious of it.

They seem to forget that the only time that they have ever come into adversity with China, it was the US in China's back garden.
China has sat there for thousands of years, silently doing it's own thing. It has had to keep itself isolationist to protect itself from the bull# that surrounds it in the rest of the world. The only expansion it has ever been interested in interested in, is to either reclaim land that it once held or to safeguard it's borders.

The USA would never invade China. Why? Because it wouldn't have a single ally left in the world. The rest of the world hasn't been brought up to despise or fear China in the way that the average US citizen seems to have been raised.

Originally posted by Leveller
I honestly believe that China is the US version of the Arab's Israel bogeyman.
Americans seem to be raised with a deep fear of China and are very suspicious of it.

They seem to forget that the only time that they have ever come into adversity with China, it was the US in China's back garden.
China has sat there for thousands of years, silently doing it's own thing. It has had to keep itself isolationist to protect itself from the bull# that surrounds it in the rest of the world. The only expansion it has ever been interested in interested in, is to either reclaim land that it once held or to safeguard it's borders.

The USA would never invade China. Why? Because it wouldn't have a single ally left in the world. The rest of the world hasn't been brought up to despise or fear China in the way that the average US citizen seems to have been raised.

Exactly well said most people think that China is a weak nation but actually its a sleeping giant wake it up and boy you're screwed big time.

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by drunk]

If there was war with China they would be nukes no doubt. Even if it started conventional and no one used nukes. Whichever side was losing dramatically would use nukes as their last hope.

I very much doubt the US could occupy China. Some of them may not like how 'tight' the regime has got but I think they hate the Americans more. Try reading in country news and u'll see how the population is fed anti-america stuff just like US citzens are fed anti-communism stuff. (I know about internal chinese media because my friends Dad worked there for 2 years and I will be going to work there for 9 months in September)

Originally posted by D
True about the manpower. But who would really bother attacking Australia? First, it's a bit hard to ship a heap of men and equipment over without getting attacked by the RAAF. Even if it is small, it is highly trained and very professional. And if Australia was taken, there isn't exactly much strategic gain in terms of anything. You got a mass of desert with a few cities and towns along the coasts. There's also not much point in nuking any city in Australia cause as said earlier, there isn't that much to gain by taking Australia. There would be a lot of strain on any force just tyring to occupy Australia.

OK,
About the RAAF - If the US AF can't take care of China, do you really think the Australian one can? Me thinks not.

As for strategic gain, we - you are correct there. But as for a vast land with bountifull resources - it would be perfect. Imagine having 2 or 3 hundred million of those China men getting shipped over. It would relieve a lot of the overpopulation problems now wouldn't it?

They wouldn't nuke cause they want the land, so you are right there.

There would be little strain in occupying Australia. You said it best - it is a lot of desert with some cities. So they only have to hold those few cities. If I am correct, and I may not be, Australia has made it illegal to own guns. What would you defend yourselves with? You have a very small population for the size of your country as well.

Originally posted by mrsteve
If there was war with China they would be nukes no doubt. Even if it started conventional and no one used nukes. Whichever side was losing dramatically would use nukes as their last hope.

I very much doubt the US could occupy China. Some of them may not like how 'tight' the regime has got but I think they hate the Americans more. Try reading in country news and u'll see how the population is fed anti-america stuff just like US citzens are fed anti-communism stuff. (I know about internal chinese media because my friends Dad worked there for 2 years and I will be going to work there for 9 months in September)

you'll be going to China which city?