Mice infected with Bubonic Plague missing from Lab

reply to post by helpmefindtheway


It's pretty common to aquire the plague from rodents. That's how it was spread in the middle ages, when the plagues went rampant in Europe.

Field biologists still to this day, still occasionally catch the plague. We usually hear about 1 case a year, here in the Southwestern part of the US. Like the previous poster said, if you know what to look for, you can diagnose it pretty quickly and treat it with a simple course of antibiotics.

(It's amazing, when you think about it, that the plague wiped out 1/4 of the population of Europe back then, but today, we can cure it in 7-10 days with antibioitcs!)

But, yes....I admit it is interesting that the Al Quaeda terrorists are dying from plague when these mice go missing! Hmmmm....makes you wonder!






[edit on 8-2-2009 by nikiano]

I wonder that the people that the people who have these mice with the diseases are also the ones that create antibiotics? And you know, they are almost always in cahoots with the government. . .

I am not familiar at all with this subject, but I bet those that are "in" are already covered with IV forms of antibiotics and all they have to do is so much as sneeze... While they dispense watered down versions of pill forms in the camps/mass health centers they will create in warehouses/ parking garages.

Does anyone know if IV forms are better/faster than capsules or tablets or syrups?

I agree losing something from a research lab is worse than bad. Can I say Im sure plague is easily treated nowadays with anti-biotics. Cleanliness is another important part of why the plague is not as it was when it killed millions worldwide.

Im sure their are much more deadly future pandemics waiting to be stolen...oops, misplaced !

Respects





[edit on 8-2-2009 by captiva]

it cracks me up what we go through to get on a palne


and yet a bio-lab----which should have the best of the best in hi tech security and safety procedures in place

you can just walk out with two frozen dead rats

and we should trust our gov't why?????

they can't protect us from our own bioterror yet alone someone elses

this is most definitely being used as a link in the middle east. to say that its coincidental is just turning a blind eye.



Just watch... people over there will start dropping like flies... from all the stuff thats going on. (this incident only being a minor factor).

I was just posting this on the other thread from 2005.
Come on - 3 mice missing - then 4 years later - 2 more mice missing.
I smell a rat -
um... 5 dead mice.

yea this all seems incredibly convenient.

I guess all that I can say about it is:

so it begins

Just for the record, the plague is a bacterium, not a virus. Yes, it can be killed with antibiotics, but what if someone was trying to grow up a batch that was resistant to antibiotics? Wiki Yersinia pestis

I'd be more worried about terrorists using refined Botulinum toxin. It's VERY toxic and a vaccine can be made against it. A vaccine that the general population won't have. Botulinum Toxin: A Bioterroist Weapon

This is disturbing indeed. However, it's probably only the tip of the iceberg regarding how many time this happens that we never hear about. I think this about most of the pieces of information we read on ATS - it's not a "doom and gloom" attitude. Rather, it's an awareness of possible realities without the emotions attached. (And yes, sometimes it's difficult to remain objective.)

S&F OP

Source Article

Can it be prevented?
The "Black Death" of the Middle Ages was due to large numbers of flea-ridden rats infesting homes and workplaces. In most developed countries, cities and towns have successfully controlled their rat populations, but rural and urban areas of developing countries often have problems with rat infestation, and thus are at risk of bubonic plague epidemics.

In other words, it is only a danger to those living in filth in the first place.

This sounds more like a prank or some nut pissed at the system. This does not sound like any organized plan of any sort. The Government has far better access to far worse diseases.


Source of the Graphic at the CDC

Risk: Wild rodents in certain areas around the world are infected with plague. Outbreaks in people still occur in rural communities or in cities. They are usually associated with infected rats and rat fleas that live in the home. In the United States, the last urban plague epidemic occurred in Los Angeles in 1924-25. Since then, human plague in the United States has occurred as mostly scattered cases in rural areas (an average of 10 to 15 persons each year). Globally, the World Health Organization reports 1,000 to 3,000 cases of plague every year. In North America, plague is found in certain animals and their fleas from the Pacific Coast to the Great Plains, and from southwestern Canada to Mexico. Most human cases in the United States occur in two regions: 1) northern New Mexico, northern Arizona, and southern Colorado; and 2) California, southern Oregon, and far western Nevada. Plague also exists in Africa, Asia, and South America (see map).

In light of these facts, two mice from the freezer can't be much more than a prank.

After reading everyone's input, I can think of two possible situations:
It was a prank and because of poor security, someone removed the mice from the freezer.

OR

It is a resistant or mutated form and somebody took the mice with malicious intent.

I don't have any evidence to back up the second theory, it's just speculation. Personally I think it is the first theory. Just because there are many other places that "terrorists" could get Yersinia pestis from, and it's not likely that UMDNJ would be the first place they would look.

reply to post by grantbeed


Gotta have levity! Good one.
Line 2

Moderator's note... Please review ATS rules about "one line" and "very short" responses: www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 8-2-2009 by Byrd]

Originally posted by Lookingup
Just for the record, the plague is a bacterium, not a virus. Yes, it can be killed with antibiotics, but what if someone was trying to grow up a batch that was resistant to antibiotics? Wiki Yersinia pestis

Good point, it would take a lot of doing but growing the bacteria and killing large ammounts of it over and over with antibiotics would accomplish this. Id say in a few years you could create a resistant strain. Im not sure what antibiotics kill it though so if we are talking most it would take a very long time to do this. If its one or two I can see why theyd try and create a weapon with it. I keep thinking theyd use a virus but now that I think about it its easier to make bacteria resistant to antibiotics then it is to radiate virii and try and get favorable mutations.

Then again youre going to need a host, if your host keeps dying such as the mice and rats youve got to have something to pass it to. Im not sure this is the best choice for a weapon. Recently there was some article over bugs being the future of a bioterror attack. Somehow getting bugs to disperse your new virus or whatever. Id be looking at things that can be put into the water supply as the biggest threat. However we have a pretty good water treatment system in the USA. If it is true that they took the mice I wonder if they are targeting another country other than the USA with worse conditions.

[edit on 8-2-2009 by Memysabu]

Originally posted by Now_Then
I hope it's not related to this: Report: Plague killing al-Qaida terrorists. That story was the 19th Jan, so the timing matches... Can the plagle (bacturium I believe) be reactivated from frozen samples? I suppose so, only heat kills it, cold just puts it into suspended animation.

Star for you ....you beat me to it. That was the FIRST thing I thought of....can you say FALSE FLAG ATTACK!!!!!!

Cheap weapon though. Parachute in a box of plague mice, sit back and wait. You wouldn't need to kill them all, just make them ill enough so they couldn't fight.

reply to post by captiva

Like the Spanish Flu they recently reconstituted from a body they found frozen in Alaska.......


which I don't think they have any way of treating.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by sezsue]

Wow! Mudhoney popping up took me by surprise, but holy fck! what a brilliant song. I will never forget the first time I heard in in Aus in 1990ish. I had thought they were an indie pop band. The concert the following week was one of the hardest and most debauched displays of urban angst that ever landed on this scorched earth.
Mudhoney Rock!

Originally posted by HBStar


Does anyone know if IV forms are better/faster than capsules or tablets or syrups?

I'm a clinical pharmacist so I can answer that for you. IV drugs do work a little faster than oral medicines, but the only time we ever really want to use IV antibiotics instead of oral antibiotics would be for the following reason:

1. The person is seriously ill and cannot take oral meds. (i.e. unconscious)
2. The person does not have a working GI tract (stomach, intestines, etc...)
3. The antibiotic needed does not come in an oral tablet or capsule
4. The infection is severe enough that they want to start out for a few days on IV meds, but then they'll change to oral meds once the person starts to improve.

As far as the plague goes, there is not a lot of problem with resistance, because there are not a lot of cases. Bacteria can mutate and pass on resistance, but that usually happens after widespread use (and overuse) of antibiotics, and there just aren't a heck of a lot of bubonic plague out there these days.....so therefore, I don't think there have been cases of any antibiotic resistance noted.

As far as drugs of choice, for IV use is gentamicin and streptomicin. If they can take oral meds, then doxycycline is the drug of choice.

The second drug of choice is doxycycline IV or Cipro (oral)

The third drug of choice is chloramphenicol. But that drug is so old and rare, I have only seen it used once in my 15 years as a pharmacist, and we had to special order it because hardly anyone ever uses it anymore.

So, don't worry..... if there was ever an epidemic of the plague....(not that I think it's possible).....the plague is still very succeptible to antibiotic treatment!

Nothing to worry about. Unless you're a field biologist working with prarie dogs. And then I think your risk of catching the plague jumps up quite a bit.

[edit on 9-2-2009 by nikiano]

[edit on 9-2-2009 by nikiano]

Originally posted by mithrawept
Cheap weapon though. Parachute in a box of plague mice, sit back and wait. You wouldn't need to kill them all, just make them ill enough so they couldn't fight.

Keep in mind, though, that the plague is spread to humans by the fleas on mice. And I seriously doubt that the mice from the lab had fleas on them.

So, the mice would have to be out in the wild quite a bit to first find fleas, and then the humans would have to be very close to the mice....close enough to get a flea bite.

In the middle ages, it was easy to catch the plague from mice and rats, because humans were basically living with them. But these days, unless you're actually out trying to get close to those little critters, the chances of catching one of their fleas is really small.

Unless someone trained the fleas to jump from the mice to humans. LOL!



[edit on 9-2-2009 by nikiano]

well, the story that you linked states that it can now be cured by antibiotics, so i don't think we're completely screwed.

hopefully.

cross your fingers, everyone.